Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

[Lazarus Short]

God asks us to reason together with Him (Isaiah 1:18). He also tells us to study, to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the Word of God (II Timothy 2:15). So I did. I'll share some of what I found out. Keep in mind I studied the Bible, not doctrine or dogma.

satan/lucifer/the devil
First, I could not find any origin story. Second, I found that most of the time when he appeared in the narrative...it was not him. In the garden, most folks think satan was there. No, and maybe it was not even a serpent/snake - it was a being called "nachash" in the Hebrew. The king of Tyre mentioned in Ezekiel 28 is thought to be satan, but the passage calls him "a man." Phooey. Over and over, translators propped up the cardboard cutout figure of satan to make him seem more real. The best glimpse we get of satan is in the first two chapters of Job, where we see him as some kind of minor functionary who must ask God before he can torment Job. Apparently God keeps him on a short leash, and when God asks where he came from, satan answers that he was running around on the Earth...not Hell. He's not the Prince of Hell, folks, not even the Prince of Heck.

hell
Again, there is no origin story, as hell is never mentioned as created by God. It is translated (I use the term loosely) from four Hebrew or Greek words: sheol, hades, gehenna, tartarus - and none of them refer to a place like what Dante, Milton, Baxter and many others describe. Please note that the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter are FICTION. I dug a little deeper, and found hell in Norse mythology as helheim, the afterlife realm of hel, where they supposed you went if you did not rate valhalla. Pagan through and through.

The closest we get to "hell" in the Bible is the Lake of Fire, and I do accept that Lake as real, but having done a long and tedious word study on "fire" and related words, I have concluded that all supernatural fire in the Bible is Godfire, not "hellfire." When we read in the Bible that God is like a refiner's fire, we understand that His intention is to remove all our impurities to produce the pure silver and gold:

“I have refined you, though not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.”
(Isaiah 48:10)

“He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver;
he will purify … and refine them like gold and silver.”
(Malachi 3:3)

“And the words of the Lord are flawless,
like silver purified in a crucible, like gold refined seven times.”
(Psalm 12:6)

“I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove all your impurities.”
(Isaiah 1:25)

“He knows the way that I take;
when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold.”
(Job 23:10)

 

[Major1]

FAIL.

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:17, NKJV).

Many people believe in something called universalism. It is the belief that a good and loving God would not condemn anyone to hell. They think because of the verse above that everyone is saved. After all, doesn’t the verse say that Jesus came to save the world, not just a select few – but the entire world? It does, but they are missing something crucial. It involves something else Jesus said and it’s the stumbling block that keeps so many from Jesus today. Repentance with belief:

I tell you, no; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5, NKJV).

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17, NKJV).

“He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God” (John 3:18-21, NKJV).

 

[Major1]

God asks us to reason together with Him (Isaiah 1:18). He also tells us to study, to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the Word of God (II Timothy 2:15). So I did. I'll share some of what I found out. Keep in mind I studied the Bible, not doctrine or dogma.

satan/lucifer/the devil
First, I could not find any origin story. Second, I found that most of the time when he appeared in the narrative...it was not him. In the garden, most folks think satan was there. No, and maybe it was not even a serpent/snake - it was a being called "nachash" in the Hebrew. The king of Tyre mentioned in Ezekiel 28 is thought to be satan, but the passage calls him "a man." Phooey. Over and over, translators propped up the cardboard cutout figure of satan to make him seem more real. The best glimpse we get of satan is in the first two chapters of Job, where we see him as some kind of minor functionary who must ask God before he can torment Job. Apparently God keeps him on a short leash, and when God asks where he came from, satan answers that he was running around on the Earth...not Hell. He's not the Prince of Hell, folks, not even the Prince of Heck.

hell
Again, there is no origin story, as hell is never mentioned as created by God. It is translated (I use the term loosely) from four Hebrew or Greek words: sheol, hades, gehenna, tartarus - and none of them refer to a place like what Dante, Milton, Baxter and many others describe. Please note that the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter are FICTION. I dug a little deeper, and found hell in Norse mythology as helheim, the afterlife realm of hel, where they supposed you went if you did not rate valhalla. Pagan through and through.

The closest we get to "hell" in the Bible is the Lake of Fire, and I do accept that Lake as real, but having done a long and tedious word study on "fire" and related words, I have concluded that all supernatural fire in the Bible is Godfire, not "hellfire." When we read in the Bible that God is like a refiner's fire, we understand that His intention is to remove all our impurities to produce the pure silver and gold:

“I have refined you, though not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.”
(Isaiah 48:10)

“He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver;
he will purify … and refine them like gold and silver.”
(Malachi 3:3)

“And the words of the Lord are flawless,
like silver purified in a crucible, like gold refined seven times.”
(Psalm 12:6)

“I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove all your impurities.”
(Isaiah 1:25)

“He knows the way that I take;
when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold.”
(Job 23:10)

God loves the world and Jesus did die for everyone, but not everyone will repent and be saved. Universalists want you to believe that no one will go to hell because God loves us so much. So you can keep on living in the darkness if you want, because, they insist, God will forgive you. But that is not what Jesus preached. Jesus preached repentance, plus faith in Him. You cannot have one without the other.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him (John 3:36, NKJV).

 

[Ceallaigh]

Good show me a verse where Jesus says the unrighteous will be placed in a hospital where they can buy chocolates for the nurses.

Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.” Mark 2:17

 

[Saint Steven]

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:17, NKJV).

Did Jesus fail his mission, or succeed? I vote for succeed.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[Major1]

Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.” Mark 2:17

I do not see "hospital" or "cookies" in that Scripture.

If that is what you see....I can understand why you are a Universalist!

 

[Saint Steven]

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:17, NKJV). ...

I tell you, no; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:5, NKJV).

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17, NKJV).

“He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God” (John 3:18-21, NKJV).

All the scriptures in your post agree with UR.

 

[Major1]

Did Jesus fail his mission, or succeed? I vote for succeed.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Yes...so do I for all who will confess Him as Lord as Saviour.

John 3:13 teaches us that everyone who believes in Christ will be saved by choosing Him.

 

[Major1]

All the scriptures in your post agree with UR.

And that explains why your theology is so messed up.

 

[Saint Steven]

I do not see "hospital" or "cookies" in that Scripture.

If that is what you see....I can understand why you are a Universalist!

We'll consider the source.
You are the same guy that doesn't see Jesus in the OT, right?
Maybe if you could see JC in the OT then you could see hospital and cookies in the NT.

The JC of the OT is the ER of the NT. And the ER of the NT is the UR of JC.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Universalists want you to believe that no one will go to hell because God loves us so much. So you can keep on living in the darkness if you want, because, they insist, God will forgive you.

That's incorrect. I think what you've learned about UR is based on what those who are against it teach about it. That's not the same thing as understanding it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes...so do I for all who will confess Him as Lord as Saviour.

I guess we are on the same page then.
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[Saint Steven]

And that explains why your theology is so messed up.

Don't blame me. You picked those scriptures all on your own.

Saint Steven said: ↑
All the scriptures in your post agree with UR.

 

[Major1]

That's incorrect. I think what you've learned about UR is based on what those who are against it teach about it. That's not the same thing as understanding it.

Nope.

It is 100% correct. You may not like because you are not ware of what it is that you actually are promoting.

Do you believe that in the end......Satan will be saved?

 

[Major1]

Don't blame me. You picked those scriptures all on your own.

Saint Steven said: ↑
All the scriptures in your post agree with UR.

I am not blaming you at all.

I am saying that your grasp of their meaning is flawed.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I do not see "hospital" or "cookies" in that Scripture.

If that is what you see....I can understand why you are a Universalist!

I believe Hmm was being facetious, but at the same time conveying the concept of sin being a sickness and Jesus being a doctor found in Mark 2:17 and elsewhere.

 

[Major1]

I guess we are on the same page then.
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)[/QUOTE

The Book, "The Evangelical Universalist" by Gregory MacDonald, says that ...
"the logic of the arguments that I employ in chapter 1 of my book would entail a more radical conclusion - that God will redeem all fallen creatures, both human and angelic. Let's call this 'radical universalism'.

He goes on to say............"If Satan was once a good spiritual person who was later corrupted then the logic of my position is indeed that God could and would redeem him."

"The only way that I can think to get out of this bind is to suggest that Lucifer (the good being created by God) will be saved ...."!

And THAT is where your logic is headed!!!!

 

[Major1]

The Book, "The Evangelical Universalist" by Gregory MacDonald, says that ...
"the logic of the arguments that I employ in chapter 1 of my book would entail a more radical conclusion - that God will redeem all fallen creatures, both human and angelic. Let's call this 'radical universalism'.

He goes on to say............"If Satan was once a good spiritual person who was later corrupted then the logic of my position is indeed that God could and would redeem him."

"The only way that I can think to get out of this bind is to suggest that Lucifer (the good being created by God) will be saved ...."!

And THAT is where your logic is headed!!!!

 

[Major1]

I believe Hmm was being facetious, but at the same time conveying the concept of sin being a sickness and Jesus being a doctor found in Mark 2:17 and elsewhere.

But you also believe that Hell and Eternal Torment are facetious!

What is the defining point between reality and fiction for you?????

 

[Ceallaigh]

Nope.

It is 100% correct. You may not like because you are not ware of what it is that you actually are promoting.

Explaining something isn't the same thing as promoting it.

Do you believe that in the end......Satan will be saved?

I don't have a personal belief about that. I could explain what the belief regarding that is, but then based on your pattern you would come to the wrong conclusion and make the false accusation that's what I personally believe and am teaching.