Christian tithe

[Goinheix]

why ask for something you do not acknowledge the authority of. If someone cites a verse from the Torah, it is discounted as something we are not under. With the mind-set, you may as well rip any NT passages from the bible which use the authority of the Torah as their basis. You'll find their is not much left.

Steve

OK. I will accept the thora as something christians has to obey, observ and follow. There is a big discsion in if we are under the Law or if we are with no Law. There are argument in both sides. Lets take the position that we are under the Law.

If we are under the Law we have to tithe as the Law stablish.
The Law stablish that only the land owners tithe.
The Law do not obligue nobody else to tithe.
Commerce, industry, services and all prodction not from the land is free from tithe.
Income and money are not tithe. (and keep on mind that in the Law it is mentioned the money. money did exist by the time of Moses and Moses mention it in the Law)
Then what we have is that all of us have to tithe...if we are owner of land only.
Since we have to obey the Law, nobody have to tithe except by the land owners.
That is the Law that we supposely are under.

How come that christian tithe oblygue to everybode to tihe independently of the sorce of the money? Obviously not because of the Moses Law, because the Moses Law does not stablish that.

Not only that. The tothe has to be brought to the temple in Jerusalem and gived to the Aaronic priests. Where is the Moses law - on wich webase christian tithe - it say that the pastors and churches are entitled to recieve the tithe?

Still more. We have clear that we are under the Law. We have to tithe because we are under the Law. There is more than 600 prespts to foloow. The Law is not just tithing, there is 600 more things to obey. Howe many of them we follow.

We have to cut of our penis. We have to respect the sabbatj from fri sunset to sat sunset. And this are the more easy rules to obey. Because we are under the moses Law.

Are we under the Law just for tithing? Tithing is the only Law we follow?

 

[Goinheix]

why ask for something you do not acknowledge the authority of. If someone cites a verse from the Torah, it is discounted as something we are not under. With the mind-set, you may as well rip any NT passages from the bible which use the authority of the Torah as their basis. You'll find their is not much left.

Steve

We are ndere the Law yes or not. If we are under the Law, we dont have to practice tithe as christians do. If we are not under the law, we found not even one verse saying that christians have to tithe in any manner.

Pick up one: under the law, not under the Law.
neither position teaches the christian to tithe.

 

[Goinheix]

Very true, Goinheix, however, our obligation to God goes far beyond the tithe. Read of Paul's thankfulness to those who supported him and others while on their missionary journeys and how he felt about preachers being supported.

That is a very good point. We are not suppose to tithe. I go even further and believe that we can not choose to tithe freely. I read Paul and Acts 15 and see that tithing is not an option as is not any Law. We are not aloud to follow any Law by our own initiative. But that is something to argue for a long time.

Despite we dont have to tithe, and even if we can not tithe freely; any how, we christians have meny oblygations that can not be avoided. Paul - probably not only him - teaches to the christians to be responsible in a monetaryand practical mannar. We have to be responsible for the needs of our widows (and all christians of our comnity in need). That responsability does not stop on saying "I will be praying for you". We are also responsible to provide for those taking care of our spiritual life. Today we are talking of pastors (I am not catholic). We are told to give monetary support for those caring for our spirituality.

Probably we can found more teachings concerning the monetary responsabilities of christians. Christians beside being free from tithe, are not suppose to be selfish and to be good admoinistrator of the money God gove us. You can not get confused...I am agaist tithe not agaist that monetary responsability.

The church request money? OK, we give.
The church teaches tithing? Wrong, we dont tithe.

 

[Ormly]

That is a very good point. We are not suppose to tithe.

OK, Your turn. Now YOU show from scripture where it says we aren't supposed to tithe. No fudging here. Show where or stop judging others about what is none of our business. Want scripture for that? I got some.

 

[Goinheix]

OK, Your turn. Now YOU show from scripture where it says we aren't supposed to tithe. No fudging here. Show where or stop judging others about what is none of our business. Want scripture for that? I got some.

Are christians supposed not to play football? Do you know of any verse that states that christians has not to play football on sunday? If you dont found any verse saying that christians shall not play football, then it is a christian doctrine that all christians has to play foorball. If you dont play football you are on desobedience to Jesus Christ. Because it is doctrine that all christians have toplay football. Where I read that christians are obligued to play football? Nowhere, but if you dont found any verse saying the oposite; then it is doctrine.

That is the oncense of your request. But even it id noncense, I will give you an aswer. But before, let get it clear. You dont seek for suport for the pastors. I told you that supporting the pastors is a christian obligation. But that is not enough, not enough money for you. You are after the 10% of everybody, and in your greed you are perveting the good biblical doctrine.

 

[Goinheix]

OK, Your turn. Now YOU show from scripture where it says we aren't supposed to tithe. No fudging here. Show where or stop judging others about what is none of our business. Want scripture for that? I got some.

Acts 15. paul is having problems with some jew trying to impose the Moses Law on the christians. Paul has the battle in Antioquia and the same batle he is fighting on the epistles.

We can go throu all the chapter, but the key verse is 28 and 29. Pay attention that it is a resolution of the Apostles stablishing a christian doctrine. And notice that those doctrines are signed by the Holy Spirit himself. We know that all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit; but in this unique case, is the Holy Spirit in person "writing" the doctrine.

The doctrine is that non of the Moses Law can be impose over the christians. There is a short list of exeptions; a short list of Mpses Law that yes has to be teached. And the tithe is not in that list. The tithe is not one of the Moses Law that christians has to obey. Christians dont have to obey the Moses Law of tithe.

Galatas 5 is another example of the fight of Paul agaist those imposing Moses Lae aver the christians. And Paul is definitive. If a christian decides to obey Moses, he is desconected from Christ (verse 4) and fall from the grace.

What about Jesus teaching? Jesus teaches that a % of the money belong to Caesar; and for God is something else; something different of a % of the money. Jesus teaches abot the hypocrecy of tithing and he say very clearly that it (tithe) was suposed to be done (in past tence) Jesus is teaching that tithe is part of the past. That is because the porpose of the tithe is mantaining the Temple (destroyed by Christ) and the service of continuos sacrifices (ended by Christ).

Christians that tithe are going back to the old pact, and away from the new pact.

 

[Goinheix]

How bad is tithing?
Jesus teaches us to dont be worry for tomorrow. Tithe based on Malachi is not only going back to the old pact, is seeking for economical security and living not by faith that God will care for us, but living in the suposed that who tithe is entitled to recieve plenty of everything.

If we teach christians to tithe, and tel them that is an christian obligation, the it becomes a law for them. Actually it is a Law, a Moses Law, and now it became a christian law. Who dont tithe is in sin. Then, all christians are living in sin. Because nobody can observ any law without failing. And the lives of christians became poor in spirit, with prays that dont pass the cealing.

But if we teach tithe as christian doctrine, we are lieing. Who teaches tithe found the problem of lack of biblical supoprt. And what all of them do is to corrupt the Bible making it saying what it does not say. The reault are leaders in deep sin.

There are more consecuenses of teaching tithe. The church commences to work in the power of money, notin the power of the Spirit. Whatever the church do, do it according to the money can spend in that project, leaving the power of the Spirit out.

And more. If all christians churches commences to teach that tithe is not doctrine, not biblical; then it will be more difficlt for those busynes chrches to grow. Those money churches are based on the false doctrine of the "good" churches.

 

[Ormly]

How bad is tithing?
Jesus teaches us to dont be worry for tomorrow. Tithe based on Malachi is not only going back to the old pact, is seeking for economical security and living not by faith that God will care for us, but living in the suposed that who tithe is entitled to recieve plenty of everything.

If we teach christians to tithe, and tel them that is an christian obligation, the it becomes a law for them. Actually it is a Law, a Moses Law, and now it became a christian law. Who dont tithe is in sin. Then, all christians are living in sin. Because nobody can observ any law without failing. And the lives of christians became poor in spirit, with prays that dont pass the cealing.

But if we teach tithe as christian doctrine, we are lieing. Who teaches tithe found the problem of lack of biblical supoprt. And what all of them do is to corrupt the Bible making it saying what it does not say. The reault are leaders in deep sin.

There are more consecuenses of teaching tithe. The church commences to work in the power of money, notin the power of the Spirit. Whatever the church do, do it according to the money can spend in that project, leaving the power of the Spirit out.

And more. If all christians churches commences to teach that tithe is not doctrine, not biblical; then it will be more difficlt for those busynes chrches to grow. Those money churches are based on the false doctrine of the "good" churches.

But you said a Christian should not tithe. Give scripture for that or simply just say you are mistaken, ok?.

 

[Goinheix]

But you said a Christian should not tithe. Give scripture for that or simply just say you are mistaken, ok?.

Acts 15. paul is having problems with some jew trying to impose the Moses Law on the christians. Paul has the battle in Antioquia and the same batle he is fighting on the epistles.

We can go throu all the chapter, but the key verse is 28 and 29. Pay attention that it is a resolution of the Apostles stablishing a christian doctrine. And notice that those doctrines are signed by the Holy Spirit himself. We know that all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit; but in this unique case, is the Holy Spirit in person "writing" the doctrine.

The doctrine is that non of the Moses Law can be impose over the christians. There is a short list of exeptions; a short list of Mpses Law that yes has to be teached. And the tithe is not in that list. The tithe is not one of the Moses Law that christians has to obey. Christians dont have to obey the Moses Law of tithe.

Galatas 5 is another example of the fight of Paul agaist those imposing Moses Lae aver the christians. And Paul is definitive. If a christian decides to obey Moses, he is desconected from Christ (verse 4) and fall from the grace.

What about Jesus teaching? Jesus teaches that a % of the money belong to Caesar; and for God is something else; something different of a % of the money. Jesus teaches abot the hypocrecy of tithing and he say very clearly that it (tithe) was suposed to be done (in past tence) Jesus is teaching that tithe is part of the past. That is because the porpose of the tithe is mantaining the Temple (destroyed by Christ) and the service of continuos sacrifices (ended by Christ).

Christians that tithe are going back to the old pact, and away from the new pact.

 

[Goinheix]

But you said a Christian should not tithe. Give scripture for that or simply just say you are mistaken, ok?.

I have give you scripture saying that christians should not tithe.

Now is your turn to give scripture saying that christians have to tithe, or simply say you are mistaken. OK?

 

[Ormly]

I have give you scripture saying that christians should not tithe.

Now is your turn to give scripture saying that christians have to tithe, or simply say you are mistaken. OK?

Not in the least have you given any scripture that states Christians SHOULD NOT TITHE. Try again.

 

[Goinheix]

Not in the least have you given any scripture that states Christians SHOULD NOT TITHE. Try again.

There is not any verse that say exactly the words "Christians shoild not tithe". No; those exactly four words do not apears in all the Bible. Also there is not any verse saying that christian should not play football. That dosent mean that all christians have the obligation of playing football. Playing football is not a christian doctrine despite there is not any verse prohibiting playing football.

The point is that the Holy Spirit is commanding you not to teach christians to obey any Law from Moses, including tithe. Is your choise to desobey the Holy Spirit and teach your brothers to obey the Moses Law of tithe.

Any how. You are playing dirty arguin. Is you who has to demostrate that tithe is a christian doctrine. And you have fail absolutely. Be honest infront of God and recognice it. Repent, turn into God and quit teaching false doctrine seaking for yours brothers money.

 

[theWaris1]

I gave a many facts on the OT tithe.
you all just waltz on by my post.

what a waste of time talking on this forum...

 

[Adorned]

I gave a many facts on the OT tithe.
you all just waltz on by my post.

what a waste of time talking on this forum...

What does Old Covenant tithing have to do with the New Covenant?
Not a thing. We are all priests of God now.

 

[Ormly]

What does Old Covenant tithing have to do with the New Covenant?
Not a thing. We are all priests of God now.

And that is what we should be speaking of instead of trying to figure out how many angels can sit on the head of pin.

 

[cyberlizard]

saying all of the above, if the didache was included in the NT canon, then tithing would be perfectly acceptable though the tithe would have been given to the Prophets within the church rather than the priesthood.

this shows a couple of things, firstly the temple had been destroyed by this time though people still knew who the priesthood were, and secondly, it shows that elements of the Torah were still being taught to gentile converts to the faith.



Steve

 

[Goinheix]

saying all of the above, if the didache was included in the NT canon, then tithing would be perfectly acceptable though the tithe would have been given to the Prophets within the church rather than the priesthood.

this shows a couple of things, firstly the temple had been destroyed by this time though people still knew who the priesthood were, and secondly, it shows that elements of the Torah were still being taught to gentile converts to the faith.



Steve

The didache was not included in the cannon. That is a clear sign that the teaching on it where not real christians. If the didache teaxch christian tithe, then it is clear that is not. What is amazing is that the only scripture you can produce to defend the christian tithe is not in the cannon. That is accepting that christian tithe is not biblical doctrine.

To tithe is and heresy

 

[Goinheix]

The reason you can't find any scripture to support tithing is because there are none supporting tithes for today's believers.


The Levites were the only Israelties not to be given land to work, farming, hunting etc. The Levittes job was to do the priestly duties.

The tithe was for these Levittes and nobody else.


Nobody today knows who are real Levitte is/was.
When the temple was destroyed so were the records of such people.

Paul took up funds to help the needy but no tithes.
Home churches need no tithes.



Facts:
Only those who raised crops or foods to eat that were not perishable in the storeroom were expected to tithe.

Only a descendant of Aaron(Levittes) was allowed to take up the tithe and place it in the storeroom.

A fisherman was never expected to tithe because Fish would not keep in the storeroom.

A carpenter was never ever expected to tithe.
A priest was never expected to tithe.

Every seventh year there were no tithes collected.

If you wanted to pay with currency and you were expected to tithe then you must pay a penalty because they did not want money.

Anyone know of any church that teaches these things?
The modern churches would fall to the ground without the tithes lie.

Home churches don't need tithes and the early churches didn't teach on the tithe.


Anyone that still promotes tithing as a biblical law or for today's Christians has no business teaching anything to anybody.

Tithe is not for christians
Tithe never was giving a % of your income

 

[spiritman1]

The reason you can't find any scripture to support tithing is because there are none supporting tithes for today's believers.


The Levites were the only Israelties not to be given land to work, farming, hunting etc. The Levittes job was to do the priestly duties.

The tithe was for these Levittes and nobody else.


Nobody today knows who are real Levitte is/was.
When the temple was destroyed so were the records of such people.

Paul took up funds to help the needy but no tithes.
Home churches need no tithes.



Facts:
Only those who raised crops or foods to eat that were not perishable in the storeroom were expected to tithe.

Only a descendant of Aaron(Levittes) was allowed to take up the tithe and place it in the storeroom.

A fisherman was never expected to tithe because Fish would not keep in the storeroom.

A carpenter was never ever expected to tithe.
A priest was never expected to tithe.

Every seventh year there were no tithes collected.

If you wanted to pay with currency and you were expected to tithe then you must pay a penalty because they did not want money.

Anyone know of any church that teaches these things?
The modern churches would fall to the ground without the tithes lie.

Home churches don't need tithes and the early churches didn't teach on the tithe.


Anyone that still promotes tithing as a biblical law or for today's Christians has no business teaching anything to anybody.

I'm right on board with you, although I have found a great blessing in giving not to support a beautiful building and fancy dressed preachers who are forever begging for more but giving to missionaries who I believe are who the Apostles of today are, and to Christian brothers and sisters who are in need, this goes along with the teaching Jesus gave in Mathew about "you did it unto me when you did to the least of My bretheren"

 

[spiritman1]

I'm outta this thread... This guy just smokes crack for a living and doesn't listen to what other people say. I don't have debates with people that take what I say extremely far out of context...

Good luck brother... I hope you figure out whatever point your trying to make.

That was uncalled for! what equates this guy being a crack addict? you insult a man for speaking against tithing. Its clearly old testiment although giving money to further the spread of the gospel is clearly a new testiment fact......maybe even more than 10% since we know our Lord is coming soon, so He said store up your riches in heaven