Christian tithe

[spiritman1]

although the tithe today is unbiblical the principle of giving is sound and good doctrine, I have personally found giving to be a great way to serve God and have been blessed more than I've ever given. The principle of trying to out give God is one that still exist today. but I would not give to any TV program, give to the true workers of Jesus not these fat cats in their fancy cars and jets they are wolves!

 

[CryptoLutheran]

The didache was not included in the cannon. That is a clear sign that the teaching on it where not real christians. If the didache teaxch christian tithe, then it is clear that is not. What is amazing is that the only scripture you can produce to defend the christian tithe is not in the cannon. That is accepting that christian tithe is not biblical doctrine.

To tithe is and heresy

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything written by "real Christians" made it into the Canon of Scripture.

The Didache is a Christian text, it's not in the Bible, but that doesn't mean it wasn't authentic Christian teaching.

Unless you'd like to make the argument that because your posts aren't in the Bible then it doesn't constitute the words of "real Christians". That would, of course, be absurd.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cyberlizard]

i am coming to the conclusion the author of the OP is not actually open to having his current theological beliefs challenged or changed!


Steve

 

[Adorned]

I actually think the OP invited a challenge and there is simply no Scriptural basis for christian tithing.
Giving yes. Tithing on income? Not even in the OT was that required.

 

[Goinheix]

I'm right on board with you, although I have found a great blessing in giving not to support a beautiful building and fancy dressed preachers who are forever begging for more but giving to missionaries who I believe are who the Apostles of today are, and to Christian brothers and sisters who are in need, this goes along with the teaching Jesus gave in Mathew about "you did it unto me when you did to the least of My bretheren"

Jesus, Paul and James are some of who have teach what you are practicing.

 

[Goinheix]

although giving money to further the spread of the gospel is clearly a new testiment fact......maybe even more than 10% since we know our Lord is coming soon, so He said store up your riches in heaven

Sorry baut that is wrong. As I have posted above, the Gospels do not need of money, never did and never wiil do. The Gospels is testified and spread by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The power of the Holy Spirit is enough by itself. And monet is totally use less. The useless money can not complement the powerfull Holy Spirit.

In the 1960´ we thot we needed money in order to spread the Gospel. And we did collect money for that porpose. Today we see the mistake when we realice that chirches spread the Gospel to colletc money.

Those evangelized by us, with our money; are sons of the money; and we did from not spiritual christians but fleshy christians.

 

[Goinheix]

although the tithe today is unbiblical the principle of giving is sound and good doctrine, I have personally found giving to be a great way to serve God and have been blessed more than I've ever given. The principle of trying to out give God is one that still exist today. but I would not give to any TV program, give to the true workers of Jesus not these fat cats in their fancy cars and jets they are wolves!

Does your denomitanion teach tithe as doctrine? Does your pastor teach tithe as christian doctrine? Do your congregation tithe? If the answer is YES, then your pastor and your denomination are wolves. Beaing teacher of the law have not excuses. They dont teach false doctrine by honest mistake...they do it because they dont believe in the power of the Holy Spirit and dont believe in the provision of God. Not only that, they corrupt the Bible, lieing in order to teach that false doctrine.

It is good you give. It is wrong if you give to the wolves that teaches tithe.

 

[Elder 111]

Can somebody provide a verse of the Bible (OT or NT) saying that christians tithe is a biblical doctrine, suported by scripture?

I can not found not even one.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Note that Jesus says here that they ought to pay tithes.

 

[Goinheix]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything written by "real Christians" made it into the Canon of Scripture.

The Didache is a Christian text, it's not in the Bible, but that doesn't mean it wasn't authentic Christian teaching.

Unless you'd like to make the argument that because your posts aren't in the Bible then it doesn't constitute the words of "real Christians". That would, of course, be absurd.

-CryptoLutheran

i am a real christian, as real those authors of the didache. today there are many real christians that are writing agaist the christian tithe. those real christians are protestants, because the catholic church officialy teaches that tithe is not christian doctrine. as you see there is way too many real christians oposing to the real christians of the didache. the best way, the only way, is to check out the bible.

 

[Goinheix]

i am coming to the conclusion the author of the OP is not actually open to having his current theological beliefs challenged or changed!


Steve

Yes, I am open, wide open. If you give only one verse it will be enough for me to quit this thread. The only thing you have to do is to post one verse of any book of the Bible teaching christian tithe.

What if I teach some heresy that not only goes agaist the Bible bt has not any support? Let say that I believe that it is a christian doctrine for the virgin girls to have the first sex in the church. Probably you will demand from me at leas one verse. And if I provide one verse you will askme for one more. I only ask you for one verse in all the Bible. I am open to the idea that we are under the Moses Law, and open to the oposite. Just give one single verse...that is all.

 

[Goinheix]

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Note that Jesus says here that they ought to pay tithes.

1
"have done" is pass tence. Tithe is part of the pasy. Why? Because tithe is to support the priesthood, the tabernacle/temple and the sacrifices. All of them are finished in the cross.

2
if you don "buy" the above. Then you have to tithe. If you dont accept the above yo have to continue to tithe. That means that if you own some land, you have to bring 10% of the produce to the Temple in Jerusalem and give to the levites.

3
if you consider the pastors and the church the modern equivalent to the temple and the levites...still you have to tithe of the produce of your land. if you do not own a piece of land you are free of tithing.

4
if you think that money is today what money was in the times of Moses, you are wrong. Moses has laws concerning the money and tithe. Only in case it is difficult to bring the produce of the ñand to Jerusalem, only in that case, it could by sold and the money brought to the temple. You see that money did exist and that money is free from tithing exept in that situation.

I DONT REQUEST ANY VERSE AT ALL. I REQUEST A VERSE TEACHING CHRISTIAN TIHING.

 

[Goinheix]

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Note that Jesus says here that they ought to pay tithes.

if your pastor have corrupted the Gospel and the words of Jesus to teach the false doctrine of christian tithe...he is a wolf.

 

[Adorned]

And for a 'love gift' of 50 dollars you can also recieve a FREE copy of the new dvd series How to be Prosperous While Spiritually Bankrupt.


2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[Goinheix]

Churches filled of empty persons.

 

[spiritman1]

Sorry baut that is wrong. As I have posted above, the Gospels do not need of money, never did and never wiil do. The Gospels is testified and spread by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The power of the Holy Spirit is enough by itself. And monet is totally use less. The useless money can not complement the powerfull Holy Spirit.

In the 1960´ we thot we needed money in order to spread the Gospel. And we did collect money for that porpose. Today we see the mistake when we realice that chirches spread the Gospel to colletc money.

Those evangelized by us, with our money; are sons of the money; and we did from not spiritual christians but fleshy christians.

well I'm not wrong, unless you have some strange interpretation of the bible. Lets start from the very begining.... Jesus begins His ministry, being that he was a son of a carpenter, where in the scriptures do you see Jesus earning a living, working a trade to supply His needs, three years Jesus taught and ministered, are you under the notion that God supernaturally put coins in His pockets, or was it more than likely that according to scripture Judas who was in charge of the money box (John 13:29) received money from people who received teaching from Jesus, as Jesus clearly states in (Luke 10:7 "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for a laborer is worth his wages. Do not go house to house.") It is very scriptural for those who spread the gospel to be supported by those who receive it........Jesus received support His disciples were told by Jesus Himself that people would give them food and drink and that workers are worth their wages..........Thats the beginning of Jesus's ministry the case gets even stronger as we venture into the early church with Paul, would you like to hear the passages of donations (Acts 4:32 Sharing in all things) (Annanias and sephira) selling land and giving it to the Apostles and supplying other churches that were in need, or even the strongest case of money being given to the Apostles is in Acts 6 when the needs of widows weren't being supplied with a "DAILY DISTRIBUTION" and the word of God refers to this operation of supplying needs such as food and clothing and needs as a "BUSINESS" So if you don't think people who spread the gospel should get fed and paid then your clearly reading from a different book, I've not even listed a fraction of passages that speak of this fact of reality. people support the ministry of spreading the gospel, the teaching of tithing to the ministry is an old testiment law and a doctrinal error. but if you don't believe Jesus was given food and wine and had His needs met by those who benefited from His teaching then Jesus was not really a man at all if He never had hunger or thirst, or needed to rest or sleep......which by the way I have scriptures to prove those things too..........your not reading the same book as most of us, or you are and have a very different interpretation of plainly written words

 

[Elder 111]

1
"have done" is pass tence. Tithe is part of the pasy. Why? Because tithe is to support the priesthood, the tabernacle/temple and the sacrifices. All of them are finished in the cross.

2
if you don "buy" the above. Then you have to tithe. If you dont accept the above yo have to continue to tithe. That means that if you own some land, you have to bring 10% of the produce to the Temple in Jerusalem and give to the levites.

3
if you consider the pastors and the church the modern equivalent to the temple and the levites...still you have to tithe of the produce of your land. if you do not own a piece of land you are free of tithing.

4
if you think that money is today what money was in the times of Moses, you are wrong. Moses has laws concerning the money and tithe. Only in case it is difficult to bring the produce of the ñand to Jerusalem, only in that case, it could by sold and the money brought to the temple. You see that money did exist and that money is free from tithing exept in that situation.

I DONT REQUEST ANY VERSE AT ALL. I REQUEST A VERSE TEACHING CHRISTIAN TIHING.

Now I will be frank with you.

1. Tithing is for the support of God's work. How else would pastors and other be paid?
2. While there was money in OT times it was limited.
3. Tithes were paid on the increase of the individual. Land, animal or in our time money( wages/salary).
4. Do you think it more honorable as it is today with churches gambling and telling lies about giving to the church and you will become debt free?
5. God keeps you alive, take away your breath and what happens. Does He not keep you in good health. He gives you 10 and ask that you give back 1. How bad is that?
6. If you want to keep the Lord's tithe keep it. The Lord never force a man to return it yet.
7. It is interesting to see that with the tithe the bible used the term return and not pay.
8. I made a calculation years ago. I counted the monies spend in worldly thing that were not good or could be done without. Total them against tithing and found that tithing was less. My conclusion was that the devil demands more than God.

 

[Adorned]

Now I will be frank with you.

1. Tithing is for the support of God's work. How else would pastors and other be paid?

By cheerful givers. Not by binding an old law upon laborers.

2. While there was money in OT times it was limited.

There was plenty of Ceasars money in NT times.

3.Tithes were paid on the increase of the individual. Land, animal or in our time money( wages/salary).

Wage earners and social security recipients are not qualified to tithe. This is heresy in many congregations.

4. Do you think it more honorable as it is today with churches gambling and telling lies about giving to the church and you will become debt free?

No. Neither is honorable.

5. God keeps you alive, take away your breath and what happens. Does He not keep you in good health. He gives you 10 and ask that you give back 1. How bad is that?

Very bad when He does not ask this.

2 Cor. 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


6. It is interesting to see that with the tithe the bible used the term return and not pay.

This is because it was done on the increase rather than a due amount.

7. If you want to keep the Lord's tithe keep it. The Lord never force a man to return it yet.

I don't think the Lord is into guilt trips. And He has no New Covenant tithe.

8. I made a calculation years ago. I counted the monies spend in worldly thing that were not good or could be done without. Total them against tithing and found that tithing was less. My conclusion was that the devil demands more than God.

This is a faulty calculation dependent on the consumer of the devils goods. The Church should have a balance of 0 on these items and is no justification for flock fleecing.

 

[Goinheix]

three years Jesus taught and ministered,

according to the Gospels were two years. for this thread it makes not difference, but it is good to say the correct lenght of the ministery: two year and a couple of months.

 

[Goinheix]

well I'm not wrong, unless you have some strange interpretation of the bible. Lets start from the very begining.... Jesus begins His ministry, being that he was a son of a carpenter, where in the scriptures do you see Jesus earning a living, working a trade to supply His needs, three years Jesus taught and ministered, are you under the notion that God supernaturally put coins in His pockets, or was it more than likely that according to scripture Judas who was in charge of the money box (John 13:29) received money from people who received teaching from Jesus, as Jesus clearly states in (Luke 10:7 "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for a laborer is worth his wages. Do not go house to house.") It is very scriptural for those who spread the gospel to be supported by those who receive it........Jesus received support His disciples were told by Jesus Himself that people would give them food and drink and that workers are worth their wages..........Thats the beginning of Jesus's ministry the case gets even stronger as we venture into the early church with Paul, would you like to hear the passages of donations (Acts 4:32 Sharing in all things) (Annanias and sephira) selling land and giving it to the Apostles and supplying other churches that were in need, or even the strongest case of money being given to the Apostles is in Acts 6 when the needs of widows weren't being supplied with a "DAILY DISTRIBUTION" and the word of God refers to this operation of supplying needs such as food and clothing and needs as a "BUSINESS" So if you don't think people who spread the gospel should get fed and paid then your clearly reading from a different book, I've not even listed a fraction of passages that speak of this fact of reality. people support the ministry of spreading the gospel, the teaching of tithing to the ministry is an old testiment law and a doctrinal error. but if you don't believe Jesus was given food and wine and had His needs met by those who benefited from His teaching then Jesus was not really a man at all if He never had hunger or thirst, or needed to rest or sleep......which by the way I have scriptures to prove those things too..........your not reading the same book as most of us, or you are and have a very different interpretation of plainly written words

Please do read my previous posts. It is OK giving money to the ministery, for the needed and for the pastors. I already day that. What I am saying is that in non of those ocations where we are teached to give; never is say a word on tithing. If we need a context for Jeaus, ther Apostles, or the authors of the Gospels to mention tithe was in those passages...bt they dont mention any tithe.

The other thing I am saying is that we dont need money to do evangelism. Is the Holy Spirit who operates in the heart of people. And that people have been already choosen by the Father. Our money has not any power on that. If you check the todays campigns - like Billy graham Fundation - they are based on techniques of comunication and selling, based on how much media can be hired. That is not work of God, but work of men in the manner the world do things.

Do we need money to pay the electric bill of the church? Yes. Can the church survive without a church building? Yes. Do we need money to pay a dedicated pastor? Yes. Can the christians live without a paid pastor? Yes.
If we have enough money to pay the bills and salaries; will it be everything OK? Not at all. Electricity and paid pastor do not guaraty anything. Do we have better chances of being OK? Neither. The Holy Spirit is enough to make a good church needing of not money at all.
But if we have money, then we can go to the church every sunday (because we can pay for it) and leave the church few hours later. And we will live very nicely all week long out of the church.

 

[Goinheix]

Now I will be frank with you.

1. Tithing is for the support of God's work. How else would pastors and other be paid?
2. While there was money in OT times it was limited.
3. Tithes were paid on the increase of the individual. Land, animal or in our time money( wages/salary).
4. Do you think it more honorable as it is today with churches gambling and telling lies about giving to the church and you will become debt free?
5. God keeps you alive, take away your breath and what happens. Does He not keep you in good health. He gives you 10 and ask that you give back 1. How bad is that?
6. If you want to keep the Lord's tithe keep it. The Lord never force a man to return it yet.
7. It is interesting to see that with the tithe the bible used the term return and not pay.
8. I made a calculation years ago. I counted the monies spend in worldly thing that were not good or could be done without. Total them against tithing and found that tithing was less. My conclusion was that the devil demands more than God.

1. Tithe is a false doctrine for the pastor to get garatied theirs salary.
1. God works do nor require money. The power of God to do His work throu as is not based on money.
2. Can explain little better?
3. That is a lie. Can you tel as the verse?
4. Those churches are the product of the tithe churches. They went little further. Tithing churches teaches lies, corrupting the bible for the seek of money too. No difference.
5. That is human arguin, trying to make christian to feel bad before God. If you achieve that, you take away the joy of being saved. God give as all spiritual blessing already, and He does not expect anything in change. If you are trying to pay him back you are insulting him and you are refusing his love to you.
6. I do nto Lords tithe. The Lord did never askme to tithe. And that is very clear since you can not show me a single verse and your option is this human reasonings.
7. Yes it is interesting. God ask his people to return the tithe. The tithe is only the produce of the land, in case you own the land. God never requested nobody else - except to land owners - to return anything at all.
8. The devil demans more than God. That is clear because God demands nothing at all.