Christian Rock - Evil?

[ricker]

just a thought...

we are living in a world which is somehow based on paganism, I even heard the name neo-paganism... almost everywhere we are being confronted with pagan symbolizm, pentacles (sometimes in the form of stars), obelisks, pyramids, all seeing eyes and what have you... just watch a random movie, no matter if its hollywood or not... you will recognise that there is at least one pagan or occult symbold hidden in it... video games... and what have you...

we are constantly confronted with news, with concepts, ideas that are not necessarily christian, or are partially christian and partially pagan or whatever.... and its not even catholic or something, I am speaking about things totally weird... especially certain policies...
...

I think Adventists are right in thinking there will be a great deception in these last days connected with the supernatural. "Spiritualism" in many forms is very prevelant in the TV shows and movies. I don't think I need to name specifics, we have all seen it.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I think Adventists are right in thinking there will be a great deception in these last days connected with the supernatural. "Spiritualism" in many forms is very prevelant in the TV shows and movies. I don't think I need to name specifics, we have all seen it.

exactly, is must be... when you have a look at the world today, is has been highly secularized. the society totally accepted that there is no God, or in other words not 'THE GOD" that we believe in... if you speak about God in a public place or high school, college, etc. it will always make somebody laugh...

 

[Stryder06]

I think Adventists are right in thinking there will be a great deception in these last days connected with the supernatural. "Spiritualism" in many forms is very prevelant in the TV shows and movies. I don't think I need to name specifics, we have all seen it.

This is interesting that you would agree with this. I'm glad to hear it. I've been taught that in the last days our foundation in scripture will have to be sure. Satan will work wondrously, and we will have to be able to say no to our senses if what we see and hear goes contrary to what the bible says. This however, will be a shaking point for many people, and sadly, many will fall.

 

[ricker]

This is interesting that you would agree with this. I'm glad to hear it. I've been taught that in the last days our foundation in scripture will have to be sure. Satan will work wondrously, and we will have to be able to say no to our senses if what we see and hear goes contrary to what the bible says. This however, will be a shaking point for many people, and sadly, many will fall.

Credit where it is due. I don't disagree with everything Adventists believe.

 

[Stryder06]

Credit where it is due. I don't disagree with everything Adventists believe.

Point well taken.

 

[reddogs]

Actually I've read the books more than once in my life. They are not, of course, "Christian" books, but are fantasy/adventure fiction written by a Christian man, actually a friend of C.S. Lewis. In the end good triumphs over evil.

I'm not above reading some escapist literature occasionally, but by a wide margin read non-fiction.

Then you must have a clue that there is nothing 'Christian' about the story, it is basically more a glofication of evil and the undead and spiritualism with little if any redeeming factor, just a 'happy ending' thrown in for cover.

 

[baxter10]

.

 

[peggy sue]

Do you think christian rock is "evil"? If "yes", why? Or are there only some bands that you would consider "evil"?

I came across this website today and now I'm wondering.....

CHRISTIAN ROCK: Blessing or Blasphemy?

well... how did God relate to things that were evil, did He have the Israelites pick them up and use them in His temple and incorporate them in His worship, i think if i remember correctly the God of Israel would not even accept an offering on another gods altar, he required a new altar made of uncut stones, i sure am not saying music is evil in it and of itself, but if someone designed music to be for an evil purpose, i'm not sure why anyone would want to repackage it and give it to God

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

but if someone designed music to be for an evil purpose, i'm not sure why anyone would want to repackage it and give it to God

Amen

 

[mmksparbud]

Yah--mention music and you best duck!! Everybody ends up upset--Having been raised in Costa Rica, I have a basic love of Latin music--I love the tango!! In the states I discovered Opera, loved it. Then I ran acrose country--some was ok--but then I found "black" music--oh, my--Nobody can get you reved up like Aritha, --Had a teacher (SDA school) who had us bring in all the music we like to hear (long ago, those were records) He played each one and would critic each one as to why it was not appropriate music. I thought I would stump him with an Andy Williams song--nice, soft--but when he sang "More than the greatest love the world has known..." that was it--because God is the greatest love. It made me mad--To me it was comparing apples and oranges, were talking human love here--he wouldn't budge, it was inapproriate. I grew up with rock and knew the church hated it, but I was not really in the church. When I came back to God, all the talk about music came floating back and I heard Chritian Rock--now, to me, that was an oxy-moron!! I have never been able to get away from rock music, all secular music, really. I still want to dance!!! They told me I would learn to not like it after getting closer to God. Well, I absolutely do not like Chritian Rock--can't listen to it--but I still love my secular music. But I just can't handle worship music that sounds like rock--I can't understand the words anyway, so all I get is the music and it's rock to me. All you're changing is the words. But you got to reach the people where they're at. One friend said that christian rock was a bridge from the worldly to God, that sounds good--but if you don't burn your bridges, they're a way back away from Him. I guess if you can envision Christ listening to what you're hearing and if His ok with it, then you should be too. But if Christ walks in and you feel like you need to change the channel, or turn it off, then it's wrong. For worship, I just want my old boring hyms! When I came back it amazed me that I still remembered the words to so many of those songs.

 

[peggy sue]

Yah--mention music and you best duck!! Everybody ends up upset--Having been raised in Costa Rica, I have a basic love of Latin music--I love the tango!! In the states I discovered Opera, loved it. Then I ran acrose country--some was ok--but then I found "black" music--oh, my--Nobody can get you reved up like Aritha, --Had a teacher (SDA school) who had us bring in all the music we like to hear (long ago, those were records) He played each one and would critic each one as to why it was not appropriate music. I thought I would stump him with an Andy Williams song--nice, soft--but when he sang "More than the greatest love the world has known..." that was it--because God is the greatest love. It made me mad--To me it was comparing apples and oranges, were talking human love here--he wouldn't budge, it was inapproriate. I grew up with rock and knew the church hated it, but I was not really in the church. When I came back to God, all the talk about music came floating back and I heard Chritian Rock--now, to me, that was an oxy-moron!! I have never been able to get away from rock music, all secular music, really. I still want to dance!!! They told me I would learn to not like it after getting closer to God. Well, I absolutely do not like Chritian Rock--can't listen to it--but I still love my secular music. But I just can't handle worship music that sounds like rock--I can't understand the words anyway, so all I get is the music and it's rock to me. All you're changing is the words. But you got to reach the people where they're at. One friend said that christian rock was a bridge from the worldly to God, that sounds good--but if you don't burn your bridges, they're a way back away from Him. I guess if you can envision Christ listening to what you're hearing and if His ok with it, then you should be too. But if Christ walks in and you feel like you need to change the channel, or turn it off, then it's wrong. For worship, I just want my old boring hyms! When I came back it amazed me that I still remembered the words to so many of those songs.

i think the government tried this experiment with heroin addicts, trying to bridge the gap, they gave them methadone as a substitute, with the notion that it could help them stay off heroin, if rock music with its satanic messages are an addiction (because clearly it is very likeable music) would Christian rock be the cheap imitation that methadone is.....offering a temporary repreive from what you really want to listen to

personally i haven't heard anything that even comes close to what satan has produced by his rock legends, its all very lame compared to the stuff Christians are trying copy, and thats what Christian rock will always be a cheap copy of what was original

 

[WannaWitness]

Here is a good commentary on this issue for those who might be interested. The writer takes a reasonably balanced view, and in my opinion, makes a lot of sense. Whether you agree with CCM or not, if anything, it's good reading. It's better read in portions, as it is quite lengthy.

CCM Controversy

 

[JohnMarsten]

i think the government tried this experiment with heroin addicts, trying to bridge the gap, they gave them methadone as a substitute, with the notion that it could help them stay off heroin, if rock music with its satanic messages are an addiction (because clearly it is very likeable music) would Christian rock be the cheap imitation that methadone is.....offering a temporary repreive from what you really want to listen to

personally i haven't heard anything that even comes close to what satan has produced by his rock legends, its all very lame compared to the stuff Christians are trying copy, and thats what Christian rock will always be a cheap copy of what was original

good point!

I have a theory here: I like gospel reggae, of course I like real reggae as well, and so I do compare the music...

now I have been listen to reggae for about 16 years...

and if I compare christian reggae with the 'real deal', I must say that most of it is not only quite lame, often out of the reggae and I must say a watered down imitation of the real stuff...

but there is exceptions, a couple of artists converted, and their music is not only superior to most gospel reggae newcomers but might be even better than the original... of course not all gospel reggae musicians are that bad, I know one that I really like...

I think the methadone example is also a good point, and as far as the music is concerned, an artist who decided to play reggae had to become very good in order to become popular, CCM on the other hand makes it easy for artists, since they sing about Jesus, they might naturally gain some 'fans' and they copy the original, while musicians playing the original have to consequently reinvent themselves and the music in order to become or stay original, otherwise they will even with their music branch circle labelled as cheap copyists...

 

[JohnMarsten]

well... how did God relate to things that were evil, did He have the Israelites pick them up and use them in His temple and incorporate them in His worship, i think if i remember correctly the God of Israel would not even accept an offering on another gods altar, he required a new altar made of uncut stones, i sure am not saying music is evil in it and of itself, but if someone designed music to be for an evil purpose, i'm not sure why anyone would want to repackage it and give it to God

the questions is, was rock music invented on earth by humans, or the devil respectively?

or was it created by God as everything was created by Him?

question: were automobiles invented by humans on earth, or the devil respectively?

or were the means and the feasibilty/laws of physics created by God and thus making it all possible,?
- same goes for guns... each and everything...

think about drugs, were they created by the devil? did the devil give us the possibility to make cocaine? did he somehow manipulate God's cocaine plant creation? did he modify chemistry as to make it possible to use cocaine leafs and create some white powder?

now coming back to music and the altar connection...

I am actually not sure if a sound or a symphony was originally desigend for a purpose or not, take a melody, composed by somebody, claiming some copyrights... can we be sure that this melody hasnt been played in Heaven long before the creation of the earth? I am not implying that rock music is the music in heaven or something... but we cannot rule out the possiblity that some rock music sounds, arent incorporated in some songs, or symphonies in Heaven, we dont know that for sure...

 

[peggy sue]

the questions is, was rock music invented on earth by humans, or the devil respectively?

or was it created by God as everything was created by Him?

question: were automobiles invented by humans on earth, or the devil respectively?

or were the means and the feasibilty/laws of physics created by God and thus making it all possible,?
- same goes for guns... each and everything...

think about drugs, were they created by the devil? did the devil give us the possibility to make cocaine? did he somehow manipulate God's cocaine plant creation? did he modify chemistry as to make it possible to use cocaine leafs and create some white powder?

now coming back to music and the altar connection...

I am actually not sure if a sound or a symphony was originally desigend for a purpose or not, take a melody, composed by somebody, claiming some copyrights... can we be sure that this melody hasnt been played in Heaven long before the creation of the earth? I am not implying that rock music is the music in heaven or something... but we cannot rule out the possiblity that some rock music sounds, arent incorporated in some songs, or symphonies in Heaven, we dont know that for sure...

quite honestly i would be a hypocrite to say i don't listen to all kinds of music myself, although i'm very aware of what is being said in the lyrics, except some music like death metal i couldn't tell you what one word is being said to save my life, I think you can see satanic lyrics in all sorts of music genres, even good ole Frank Synatra singing " I'll do it my way" is right in line with the satanic motto "do as thou wilt" some are very subtle, and others like Marilyn Manson are more obvious

 

[reddogs]

Yah--mention music and you best duck!! Everybody ends up upset--Having been raised in Costa Rica, I have a basic love of Latin music--I love the tango!! In the states I discovered Opera, loved it. Then I ran acrose country--some was ok--but then I found "black" music--oh, my--Nobody can get you reved up like Aritha, --Had a teacher (SDA school) who had us bring in all the music we like to hear (long ago, those were records) He played each one and would critic each one as to why it was not appropriate music. I thought I would stump him with an Andy Williams song--nice, soft--but when he sang "More than the greatest love the world has known..." that was it--because God is the greatest love. It made me mad--To me it was comparing apples and oranges, were talking human love here--he wouldn't budge, it was inapproriate. I grew up with rock and knew the church hated it, but I was not really in the church. When I came back to God, all the talk about music came floating back and I heard Chritian Rock--now, to me, that was an oxy-moron!! I have never been able to get away from rock music, all secular music, really. I still want to dance!!! They told me I would learn to not like it after getting closer to God. Well, I absolutely do not like Chritian Rock--can't listen to it--but I still love my secular music. But I just can't handle worship music that sounds like rock--I can't understand the words anyway, so all I get is the music and it's rock to me. All you're changing is the words. But you got to reach the people where they're at. One friend said that christian rock was a bridge from the worldly to God, that sounds good--but if you don't burn your bridges, they're a way back away from Him. I guess if you can envision Christ listening to what you're hearing and if His ok with it, then you should be too. But if Christ walks in and you feel like you need to change the channel, or turn it off, then it's wrong. For worship, I just want my old boring hyms! When I came back it amazed me that I still remembered the words to so many of those songs.

Oh yes, when we would go to the beach it came from every radio, as they love the 'salsa romantica' by Willie Gonzalez, Marc Anthony, Víctor Manuelle, Tito Nieves, Jerry Rivera and Gilberto Santa Rosa....... But what does it bring, and make one do, and where does it ultimately lead?

 

[mmksparbud]

That's why I said, If you can picture Christ standing next to you listening to the music you're listening and it makes you feel like you need to change the station or turn it off---then there's something wrong with the music. If the 2 of you can still carry on a good conversation--without raising your voices--then you might be ok. Unless you're so far gone that you're going to listen to whatever you want regardless of what He might think and since you like it, that's all that matters. When Moses was coming down the mountain after being with God the first thing he heard that wasn't right was the music--right? Music does enhance whatever mood one wants to create. I remember some verse in the bible about Lucifer and his "pipes"--meaning voice. I assume the guy had a fantastic (compared to us) musical ability. He uses everything else he can to ruin us, why not music?? If it makes your hips gyrate, it's pretty certain that celestial matters are not going to be on your mind!

 

[ricker]

Then you must have a clue that there is nothing 'Christian' about the story, it is basically more a glofication of evil and the undead and spiritualism with little if any redeeming factor, just a 'happy ending' thrown in for cover.

I think I already said that it is not a Christian book, but a fantasy/adventure one. If you want theology, read Sproul or MacArthur. I've read them, too.

Sounds like you must have read the books to have such great knowledge of what they contain. Everybody has an opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours.

 

[ricker]

That's why I said, If you can picture Christ standing next to you listening to the music you're listening and it makes you feel like you need to change the station or turn it off---then there's something wrong with the music. If the 2 of you can still carry on a good conversation--without raising your voices--then you might be ok. Unless you're so far gone that you're going to listen to whatever you want regardless of what He might think and since you like it, that's all that matters. When Moses was coming down the mountain after being with God the first thing he heard that wasn't right was the music--right? Music does enhance whatever mood one wants to create. I remember some verse in the bible about Lucifer and his "pipes"--meaning voice. I assume the guy had a fantastic (compared to us) musical ability. He uses everything else he can to ruin us, why not music?? If it makes your hips gyrate, it's pretty certain that celestial matters are not going to be on your mind!

Some Christian might be turned off by the banjo in bluegrass gospel. Some Christians might not like the orchestra in Handel's Messiah. Does that mean they are evil forms of Christian music? Who exactly decides?


Let's all listen to whatever inspires us to worship, and praise, and good works. The last thing we need is debates about things such as this. Do we really need to put others choices in disputable matters down in order to make ourselves feel superior?
(not addressed to you, mmksparbud)

 

[JohnMarsten]

That's why I said, If you can picture Christ standing next to you listening to the music you're listening and it makes you feel like you need to change the station or turn it off---then there's something wrong with the music. If the 2 of you can still carry on a good conversation--without raising your voices--then you might be ok. Unless you're so far gone that you're going to listen to whatever you want regardless of what He might think and since you like it, that's all that matters. When Moses was coming down the mountain after being with God the first thing he heard that wasn't right was the music--right? Music does enhance whatever mood one wants to create. I remember some verse in the bible about Lucifer and his "pipes"--meaning voice. I assume the guy had a fantastic (compared to us) musical ability. He uses everything else he can to ruin us, why not music?? If it makes your hips gyrate, it's pretty certain that celestial matters are not going to be on your mind!

well, there is a season for everything... a time to kill and a time to heal...

Hips gyrate? there is also a time to dance... and a time to mourn...

would Christ be listening to it? just btw... we cannot always ask this question... because we sometimes dont know what Christ would do, some people say that Christ turned water into wine... why made the hearts of the wedding guests happy; but for others it was just grape juice...

as a consequence one might say that Christ wants us to be happy and have some fun and maybe even a glass of wine now and then aint that bad, but others will say that Christ didnt make no wine...

the thing is, that cannot always say what Christ would do and we cannot always be like Christ...

for example: imagine being in a place (for example church) that is crowded with many people, and some beautiful women... you realize that there is a particularly attractive woman and you feel like talking to her, and try your luck, now what would Christ do in this situation? Christ never married, we dont know anything about any relationships, so it would be safe to assume that He wasnt involved in earthly dating... right? so if we take it at face value, it would be not christlike to date... and marry... and stuff... and yet marriage was designed by God for us...