Christian Rock - Evil?

[RC_NewProtestants]

As a psychology student, I stand by my assertion that certain types of music affect one's mood in certain ways. While there may be slightly subjective areas as to what type of music affects whom, studies show that generally, certain sounds produce a constant result in all subjects.

Interestingly enough a person mood can also be altered by a passerby who smiles at them too. Then there is this recent study it is no wonder music effects are emotions, nearly everything effects our emotions.

Who’s Minding the Mind?





By BENEDICT CAREY
Published: July 31, 2007
In a recent experiment, psychologists at Yale altered people’s judgments of a stranger by handing them a cup of coffee.

The study participants, college students, had no idea that their social instincts were being deliberately manipulated. On the way to the laboratory, they had bumped into a laboratory assistant, who was holding textbooks, a clipboard, papers and a cup of hot or iced coffee — and asked for a hand with the cup.
That was all it took: The students who held a cup of iced coffee rated a hypothetical person they later read about as being much colder, less social and more selfish than did their fellow students, who had momentarily held a cup of hot java.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/h...=6af9b09aac9bc6dcei=5088partner=rssnytemc=rss

 

[Larmore]

Jim,

Where do you find your verification for this? Is it your opinion or your experience? You've spoken to folks who use voodoo and know how important that certain beat is in ceremonies or you have participated, and therefore know? Or, are you citing the data from the rat study conducted, in part, by Dr. Harvey Bird which was actually a study conducted on mice?

Is your stated conclusion empirical or empiricism?

BTW, is there a similar effect on the body from poetry that has a certain syncopation?

Go to any rock concert and watch what happens in a mosh pit ( ms ). Those who say sycopation and it's effects on the mind is balooney are not facing reality. There has been a ton of studies done on the effect of music and it's beat to the physiology of the brain and the mind. Do a google search on music and it's effects of the mind .

Reaching a certain pitch of excitment is what a lot of charasmatic churches depend on now for the so called blessings they get when they get slayed in the spirit. Remember there is only two forms of spiritualistic experiences on earth. One of them is not good. If we seek God's face and His spirit we will not be going after syncopated mind dulling music that causes men and women to girate in immoral ways.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[NightEternal]

Jim, I don't even know where to begin with all of that hogwash, so I won't even try. I have heard it all before anyhow.

Let me just ask this: Do you honestly think a full on orchestra, choir and bombastic classical piece by Wagner won't exite you and provoke the same stimulating, passionate response as a good rock song does?

Of course exciting music will incite the appropriate response. Where is your evidence that this feeling of excitment is even remotely sinful?

Classical composers were experimenting with poly-rhythyms and different tempos long before rock came along.

Your 'physiology and brain' argument is nonsense. Unless you are going to stand there and contend that listening to 4/4 beat and syncopated rock music for the past 15 plus years has rendered me a mental invalid, drooling and frothing at the mouth with no mental capacities or moral boundaries whatsoever.

I can assure you, nothing of the sort has happened to me.

Wow, I wonder how I ever got that Bachelor's degree in college with all of that mind-dulling music polluting my brain?

I don't gyrate either, BTW, and no music I have ever listened to has ever provoked the desire to in me to do so.

Do the nay-sayers of rock music even realize how offensive and patronizing thier arguments come across?

 

[Mankin]

For all you people who think the beat is evil read this article http://bowingdown.wordpress.com/2006/05/04/toward-a-biblical-understanding-of-music-part-4/ This is a neutral article but it debunks the big bad beat theory.

 

[Mankin]

Jim, I don't even know where to begin with all of that hogwash, so I won't even try. I have heard ot all before anyhow.

Let me just ask this: Do you honestly think a full on orchestra, choir and bombastic classical piece by Wagner won't exite you and provoke the same stimulating, passionate response as a good rock song does?

Of course exciting music will incite the appropriate response. Where is your evidence that this feeling of excitment is even remotely sinful?

Classical composers were experimenting with poly-rhythyms and different tempos long before rock came along.

Your 'physiology and brain' argument is nonsense. Unless you are going to stand there and contend that listening to 4/4 beat and syncopated rock music for the past 15 plus years has rendered me a mental invalid, drooling and frothing at the mouth with no mental capacities or moral boundaries whatsoever.

I can assure you, nothing of the sort has happened to me.

Gee, I wonder how I ever got that Bachelor's degree in college with all of that mind-dulling music polluting my brain?

I don't gyrate either, BTW, and no music I have ever listened to has ever provoked the desire to in me to do so.

Do the nay-sayers of rock music even realize how offensive and patronizing thier arguments come across?

Yeah! Christian Rock has brought so many teens to God. How can people in their right mind say it is evil! Even Jesus talked in a way that the people of the time could understand. Teens understand rock music. I honestally wish nay sayers of rock would quit assaulting people and saying their style of music is evil!

 

[moicherie]

Where is the beat in "Just As I Am"? There is no more influential piece of music in popular evangelism than this quiet hymn. Don't you think it medicates the mind, or do you simply choose to attach another identifier to that experience?

Senti that music played under 'appeal' circumstances is hypnotic which to me is dangerous....

 

[gaara4158]

well yes, many things other than sound frequencies contribute to one's mood. Look at it this way: During an intimate moment with your spouse, what kind of music would you like to have in the background? probably something slow, smooth, and harmonious. While there is nothing wrong with, say, marching band music, it probably has no place in this intimate moment.

The same way marching band music has no place in an intimate setting with your spouse, there are certain types of music that have no place in an intimate moment with your Savior. If a song doesn't make you feel reverent of God's greatness, it isn't the right type of music to worship God to.

That being said, if you listen to rock with a positive message while it's not worship-time, that's fine. it's a healthy alternative to secular rock. However, ANY music that is not conducive to a reverent atmosphere should not be used to worship God. If there's a rock song that's reverent, go ahead and worship with it, and that goes for any genre.

 

[Telaquapacky]

When I lived in Berkeley there was a season where you would go into any of the shops or restaurants on Telegraph Avenue and behind the counter would be these Gothic, pierced and tattooed persons, and Punk Music would be blaring from the speakers, and you would get the rudest, poorest customer service since the stone age. I went to a pizza place and got a pizza smothered with rancid garlic, piled thick like sawdust. At a video rental place I asked how much the deposit was and they told me "Four hundred dollars." I said "Excuse me, did I hear you right?", and the dark figure cursed me out. I wasn't the only one, and this got so bad that it got press in the local papers.

For a long time I blamed it on the Punk music. But now I realize it wasn't the Punk music. It was the Punks.

You know a lot of what they blame music on has nothing to do with the music, as much as it has to do with the attitude of the people who listen to it. Old people can't relate to young people or understand their sullen or rebellious attitudes (forgotten what it was like when we were there, haven't we?), and so they project all their own angst on the music the kids listen to.

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

well yes, many things other than sound frequencies contribute to one's mood. Look at it this way: During an intimate moment with your spouse, what kind of music would you like to have in the background? probably something slow, smooth, and harmonious. While there is nothing wrong with, say, marching band music, it probably has no place in this intimate moment.

The same way marching band music has no place in an intimate setting with your spouse, there are certain types of music that have no place in an intimate moment with your Savior. If a song doesn't make you feel reverent of God's greatness, it isn't the right type of music to worship God to.

That being said, if you listen to rock with a positive message while it's not worship-time, that's fine. it's a healthy alternative to secular rock. However, ANY music that is not conducive to a reverent atmosphere should not be used to worship God. If there's a rock song that's reverent, go ahead and worship with it, and that goes for any genre.

Any definition of what type of moods are worshipful or reverent are personal and subjective. Many youth love the power and strength of rock music. I have no doubt that to many others, usually older generations but not all the time, it would seem irreverent.

The point is, we recieve music as a sense and our bodies and minds respond, but these responses are not often clear cut. Why do I feel so moved and satisfied when I listen to Mahler's 9th symphony when others hear it and think that it is either rubbish or too sad or depressing? (it is writen by a man who is slowly dying) Why do I like listening to Schoenberg (atonal/serial music) when alot of people are physically revolted by it?

 

[Mankin]

Any definition of what type of moods are worshipful or reverent are personal and subjective. Many youth love the power and strength of rock music. I have no doubt that to many others, usually older generations but not all the time, it would seem irreverent.

The point is, we recieve music as a sense and our bodies and minds respond, but these responses are not often clear cut. Why do I feel so moved and satisfied when I listen to Mahler's 9th symphony when others hear it and think that it is either rubbish or too sad or depressing? (it is writen by a man who is slowly dying) Why do I like listening to Schoenberg (atonal/serial music) when alot of people are physically revolted by it?

Agreed it depends on the person. Some older people seem feel like praising God with hymns. Most of the hymns just put me to sleep. Lol.

 

[gaara4158]

If this is the case, then it's wrong for some people to worship with a particular song but it's ok for others.

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

If this is the case, then it's wrong for some people to worship with a particular song but it's ok for others.

What's your definition of "wrong"?

It could be wrong if a song does not match the person's (or the group's) taste, cultural background, theological presuppositions etc.

A theological presupposition could simply be someone telling themselves that God would never speak to anyone through a jazz style. When that person then hears a jazz style piece in a worship service, we know exactly what their conclusions will be.

I might add that we should be aware and very sensitive of other people's taste, culture, theology, and not make the mistake of enforcing our own taste, culture, theology onto them.

 

[gaara4158]

when i say "wrong" i mean "sin".
And I agree, if you don't believe jazz can bring you to Christ then you have no business listening to it during worship time.

However, the genre of the music is only a superficial difference. As i said before, certain songs emit frequencies and vibrations that have the same neurological effects on every listener regardless of their individual preferences. There are songs in every genre that instill anger, even if it is only in the subconscious, as there are songs in virtually every genre that instill happiness, depression, reverence, etc.

 

[NightEternal]

Bump

 

[NightEternal]

As for Christian metal, I love it. Bands like my boyz from Demon Hunter will continue to storm the gates of Hell and reach extreme youth most other Christian artists don't have even a remote chance of reaching with the Gospel.

 

[NightEternal]

This is a continuation of the discussion from the thread in the main area on Christian rock/metal.

http://christianforums.com/t6771525-adventist-listening-heavy-metal-rap-rock-music.html

"Storm the gates of hell???"
Do you even know what you're saying?

Why yes, I do. It happens to be a song title of one of thier songs as well as their new CD. It is also the purpose of the band, sort of a mission statement.

Yes the music can draw the youth. I repeat, the MUSIC will draw the youth into the church, not the love for Jesus.

That is a huge presumption. You know the hearts, motivations and intentions of every single youth who was led into the church and into a relationship with Christ through this style of music? Wow, I wish I had that ability.

Here is a hint: I was one of them about 25 years ago. Got my B.A. in theology and have been a member of the church for over 20 years now.

So much for that theory.

We are strictly told by our Lord to make ourselves separate and not join the ways of the world. It is easy for many who have not strongly founded themselves in the truth to be drawn into the world or to believe that the ways of the world are acceptable in a sincere Christian life. But it is even harder to come out of it, especially for the youth.

You have not shown me, much less convinced me, that any style of music can be 'worldly'. What is 'worldly'? Music made by people in the world? That takes care of every style of music known to man. Music that God does not like? You are privy to God's taste in music I assume? Which CD's does He have in His collection?

Ridiculous.

And no, not all types of music during Israel's time were used to worship God.

I have no problems with that. I agree that not all music is ideal for worship or a church serevice. Where the lines are drawn there will be vastly different between you and I however.

That does not make any sort of case whatsoever that certain styles of music are inherently 'evil'.

 

[Mankin]

Also there is no verse in the Bible that limits the ways you can teach the gospel. Paul himself said that when he was around Jews, he acted like a Jew. When he was around those not under the law, he acted like those not under the law so he could better teach the Jews and others.

Oh yeah and one of the the pslams found in David were written in a tone used to praise Baal. In the same way we can take a style of music often used to praise negative things and change into something good. And yes these guys from Demon Hunter are serious Christians. just look up their website and read their journal.

Somehow I doubt God only approves of gospel Gather music lol.

 

[Loveaboveall]

As for Christian metal, I love it. Bands like my boyz from Demon Hunter will continue to storm the gates of Hell and reach extreme youth most other Christian artists don't have even a remote chance of reaching with the Gospel.

Are we to reach others and be a light of Christ by becoming like the world? How did Jesus reach those who were "unreachable"?

 

[Loveaboveall]

Oh yeah and one of the the pslams found in David were written in a tone used to praise Baal.

Do you have any proof to back up this statement?

 

[Jimlarmore]

I heard a sermon one time about music in the church today. The main point he was bringing out is that in some cases you can't tell the difference between the so called Christian rock and the regular rock. To me any kind of heavy metal music is not good even it it has Christian lyrics. The decibel level alone in most of the concerts Chrisian or not is unhealthy for those attending. I think the bottom line is this. Would we feel comfortable having the Lord Jesus Christ sit with us as we attended this concert or not?

The man who preached this sermon made a good point in saying that just because you label something Christian does not mean it's good. He said before long there may be Christian pornography out there, think about that.

God Bless
Jim Larmore