Christian Right on wrong side

[amanz]

I am an atheist so may few is that if an outsider to Christian political reasoning.

It seems to me that Christains today are in the wrong political party and are missing what is most important to thier faith.

I know that prehaps the most important message in the bible is charity. for "faith without works is dead" however jesus;s teachings on homosexuality and abortion seem very minuscule in the light of charity. a major part of the Democratic Party's vew is that the government should help those in need, a seemingly perfect fit for loving christains. however is seems that the christian right is caught up in dictating how people live and the choices that they make, instead of supporting a system that would better peoples lives. I think that your faith and values would benefit from the Democratic system. for examples helping poor people would improve family lives therefore decrease the rate of split families.

I know personaly it turns me away from christains and thier faith when try to effect peoples lives through political prowess and i dont want them gays to be married and them young teenagers gettin abortions, i find to be ignorant and not wisdom coming from love and compassion. the times i do think about god are when people are actually willing to help not becuase they want people to be like them but they care for humanity in general.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

yep, this is what i've heard some democrat pundits kicking around, that they are all about the charity and they should really have the hooks in the religious vote. the problem lies (no pun intended when speaking about politicians) in that the democrat party is for the most part pro-choice (the abortion aspect mentioned before) which is not very charitable to the poorest citizens. the unborn have nothing but their life and we take even that from them day after day.

 

[Sors]

Ok, well
1. You can't really put being pro-life into the same category of ignorance. It is simply a different view.
2. The Democrats want to help people....by stealing money and redistributing it. A Christian should be giving on their own....not being forced to give by the government. I fail to see how you can justify anything with legalized theft. Sure the right tries to decide what we do with our personal life. I don't like that. But on the same token I don't like the Democrats telling me what I have to do with my money.
3. Most Christians take the Bible literally and believe that homosexuality is a sin. Do I disagree sure. But you can't really expect Christians to simply accept everything they think is sinful. Most Christians, I believe, love the sinner and hate the sin.

Anyway, this is from a non-Christian who is strongly pro-choice. Just my opinion.

Sors

 

[Harpuia]

In a way, the Christian right is on the wrong side.

The reason why I am a Democrat is that there are more Democrats who are willing to help the poor (NOT by force) than Republicans.

The problem was that the Republicans need a reason to claim that their ways politically are right, and they confuse the public with their moral values to justify that they're right, which is obv not the case when you think about it.

 

[Glaz]

In a way, the Christian right is on the wrong side.

The reason why I am a Democrat is that there are more Democrats who are willing to help the poor (NOT by force) than Republicans.

Are you trying to say the Democrats aren't the party of government handouts?

 

[Harpuia]

Are you trying to say the Democrats aren't the party of government handouts?

They are. But as it comes to altruism, the Democrats tend to show a better record.

Plus, 2 out of 3 big-business runaway is a Republican, a socially liberal Republican... *shiver*, and they keep getting more money off of their own greed, buying themselves more stuff and forgetting about the workers below them. That's why the national minimum wage hasn't been raised in 7 years while the top 1%'s wages have nearly tripled in that same period of time.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

meh, pointless

 

[Harpuia]

Tell ya what Christian Republicans. Let's do a what-if:

If the Republicans abandoned all Christian morality stuff from their platform today (pro-choice, pro-gay marriage), would you still be Republican? (Let's say that there is no third party option).

 

[amanz]

Reese,
you have failed to respond to the original post. i guess i failed to imply that if living conditions were better it would decrease the need for abortions.
Sors,
sorry for implying that being pro-life is ignorant, i meant to imply that in the context of being pro-life because preacher-man said so is ignorant

 

[Fineous_Reese]

amanz,
the most important message in the bible is that we're dead without Jesus. the 'charity' is that God so loved you that He sent His Son to die in your place and if you'll accept Him as Lord and Saviour you can be saved. the rest is just folks imitating the goodness of God (some succeeding, some failing, that's the 'works' that backup the 'faith' but never forget faith came first) or living in their sin and awaiting judgement after death.

 

[Redneck]

Have we won the "War on Poverty" yet? How many billions of dollars has the government spent on that? What about government run Poniz schemes...I mean "Social Security"? Does forcing people to participate in a pyramid scheme really help them?

 

[christzen]

Both political parties fall way short of being more christian, imho. They should both stop trying and just DO. But let's make sure we know what we're supporting on both sides.

The new testament verse is Romans 1:26-27:

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Paul didn't write it as a condemnation of homosexuality, but as a criticism of Greek behavior in temple worship. Greeks often incorporated sexual behavior in temple worship. That group, that specific group did God give up.

However, if you accept this as Paul's condemnation of homosexuality, then you must accept other instrucitons in the bible such as those which recognized slavery, required some hookers to be burned alive, advocated genocide, approved sex with handmaidens, recognized the torture of prisoners, polygamy and required the execution of non-virgin brides.

If Paul is condeming homosexuality, then is he condeming a young King David for his soulful relationship with Jonathan?

The verse is 1 Samuel 18:1-3

1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.

The verse is 1 Samuel 18:21

21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be upon him. And Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law a second time.

 

[Sors]

Raising the minimum wage does nothing but put more people out of work.

Sors

 

[christzen]

Raising the minimum wage does nothing but put more people out of work.

Sors

Actually, not true. This is a favorite myth of certain Republican factions. There was no negative impact to jobs from the 96-97 increase in minimum wage.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/studies_stmwp

 

[utdbear]

Well, not to degrade you in any way, but when you make a title called 'Christian Right on Wrong Side', and the first line in your argument is 'I'm an Atheist, but....', sorry, but you're not going to carry much water in your argument with many of us. Not trying to put you down, just keepin it real, like P. Diddy would. Also, you assume that 'faith without works is dead'. Nowhere is any type of work in the name of christ exalted over another. Broad statements such as the accusing of the conservative christians of their faith being dead is not only blatently lying to the faces of everybody on this forum, it expands to attack all Christians who come within ear(or in this case, eye) shot of this hateful rhetoric. I cannot name one Christian who does his works in the name of Christ as a conservative Christian republican, nor can i find one who does works in the name Christ as a liberal Christian democrat. Christ is not bound by parties, and neither are His Children. We do it in the name of CHRIST, and the name of CHRIST ALONE. What those without the faith seem to forget before they open their mouths many times to spew their hateful venom, is that Christians are to be living this life in preparation for the next life, which is eternity, and not this one. If you don't like us because we stand against legalizing gay marriage or we don't like abortion, or whatever else you can dig up, fine, thats your right. But you're not going to stop us from not liking it, nor are you going to silence us with hateful rhetoric. Honestly, I'd rather be part of the religious right than the irreligious wrong any day(come on guys, you know i was gonna do that )I guess the only way left is to outvote us in the elections, and I wish you good luck on that. You're gonna need it.

 

[mhess13]

Tell ya what Christian Republicans. Let's do a what-if:

If the Republicans abandoned all Christian morality stuff from their platform today (pro-choice, pro-gay marriage), would you still be Republican? (Let's say that there is no third party option).

YES
I was a conservative before I got saved. The democratic party is the party of whiners and crybabies wanting handouts. I'm waiting for the DNC to just take the freakin mask off and call themselves what they really are, FULL BLOWN SOCIALISTS

 

[R.James]

. a major part of the Democratic Party's vew is that the government should help those in need, a seemingly perfect fit for loving christains.

Giving through taxation does not equal giving through church or charity. That is my problem with the liberal view of Christ's teachings. "Hey, you look like you need help!" (tax a rich man, get funds) "here you go! Remember who provided for you come this November!" It is a method of creating dependence, and a base which will fight so that their people are in power and continue to provide for their needs.

 

[KenH]

Both political parties fall way short of being more christian, imho. They should both stop trying and just DO.

We do not live in a Theocracy. Political parties are not a part of Christ's church.

We can come together as a nation to help those in extraordinarily bad circumstances. But ultimately private charity works better and more efficiently than government checks.

 

[KenH]

Tell ya what Christian Republicans. Let's do a what-if:

If the Republicans abandoned all Christian morality stuff from their platform today (pro-choice, pro-gay marriage), would you still be Republican? (Let's say that there is no third party option).

Yes. I support the idea of the free market and capitalism, and strong foreign and defense policies.

 

[amanz]

utdbear,
first of all i would just like to state that my inspiration for this post was from an evengelical preacher who used the quote "faith without works is dead" in his argument. im sorry that was the only quote i remember him using. and second of all i dont hate you, i was trying to get insight into the christian right mind-set, there were plenty people who agreed or disagreed with had imput that helped me, however you just went off on an emotional tangent, i want to here your personsal reasoning for your views, i gave a fair account of mine