Christian preaching...

[Zaac]

People believe in something one day and not the next. This happens all the time. Are you saying that it's possible with everything other than Christianity? This is called special pleading. It's a logical fallacy. You'd have to prove that there's a reason to believe this is an exception.

No I don't. People can believe what they want. I don't have the power to convince anyone that being saved by Christ is different. I expect nonbelievers to NOT believe it. Perhaps one of the major issues nonbelievers have and always have had with Christ is His exclusivity.

Did it.

Really? And deconverted? You're lying to yourself. But like you've been told in accordance with God's word. You can't save yourself and you can't unsave yourself.

You're throwing out stock phrases again. Please provide a list of things that constitutes a "changed heart".

If you don't know that presents even more evidence of you not being that which you say you USED to be.

I'm sure every devout Christian who deconverted would have said the same thing as you are now. I would have said that. You're no different from any of us in that regard. So my point still stands - according to your logic, anyone on the outside can't be sure you're a Christian since we can't be sure you won't at a later date deconvert.

We're just gonna go back and forth.<staff edit>

Jesus is GOD ALONE.
Only HE saves.
You didn't convert yourself so it's impossinle to deconvert yourself.

This again points to you never knowing Him if you think you "deconverted".

Your saying you wont means nothing, since we know there are cases of people saying that and later deconverting. And since you can't say with 100&#37; certainty you won't deconvert (I know you believe you wont, but people who deconvert think that as well), you can't be sure you're a Christian either.

I can say with 100% certainty. But this goes back to the crux of what I said in my first post as to why it is silly to ask nonChristians what Christlike behavior is.

Here you are, a nonChristian talking about deconverting from Christianity. All that does is reinforce what I said in my OP. It is impossible for one without Christ to understand the things of Christ.

You're contradicting yourself. First you say you can't understand the Bible without being a Christian, now you seem to say you can, since it's "pretty basic". Which is it?

I didn't contradict anything. It's pretty basic if you let the Holy Sirit direct your understanding and you deal with what is on the page.

And you said God helped you understand passages, correct? What happens when God helps other Christians to come to conclusions you don't share?

If they can reconcile what they are saying with the whole of God's word, then we have something to talk about. If they can't, then I will remain steadfast on what God's word says.

 

[CShephard53]

I don't have a score to settle with him.

That's his quote. There will never be any middle ground between me and anyone who isn't led by the Holy Spirit in discerning God's word.

Why? I have seen the rest of his quote. You see, I keep up with my threads very intently. You might even call me obsessive in that regard. Anyway, the part you missed:
"The Bible has tons of history and culture behind it, and the only way to know what it says is by learning about it, studying it, and reflecting on said history. Not ignoring it in favor of some feeling you get. "

I do not believe Godschild is being unreasonable. Favoring a feeling over that which you know for a fact and can put to the test does seem a bit foolish, especially when we are dealing with something as important as God's word. Don't we want to be accurate in what we believe about it? How can we do this if we trust something we feel to be true? For example, there are many people who believed the slave trade was justified by the Bible and they too used feelings to justify what they believed. Now, you can argue that they weren't going by the Spirit, and that is true and evidenced by their actions. However, they genuinely believed that what they said about it was the truth.
Why did you disregard this matter in his post? Has he really angered you that much that he cannot reason with you?

Thanks for the offer though. As long as he contends that the Bible isn't authoritative, which his not being led by the Holy Sirit to discern it further testifies, there won't be any middle ground.

I have seen the thread he referenced earlier. He actually suggested that I view it, for my own viewing pleasure, after my suggestion yesterday. He has also brought me up to speed and told me his side of the story, but I have yet to hear yours. So I know that he does view the Bible as authoritative:

The word of God is Jesus Christ, as was written in John 1. The Bible is not the word of God, but is inspired by God. I don't think the Bible can possibly be the word of God if it is inspired, as it can't come from God's mouth AND be written by man at the same time. However, I think it has just as much authority as the words that come from God's mouth. So you might say I'm arguing semantics.

While he is just arguing semantics, he made it quite clear that he views the Bible as authoritative. But perhaps you think he is lying now, that he said something earlier about the Bible not having authority? If so, please quote it.

He can do his thing and I'll continue to correct it with God's word.

So long as you refuse to be at peace with your brother in Christ, you have no right to correct him in anything. The Bible makes it clear about what you can and cannot see when you hate your brother, in 1 John 2:1-11. He has agreed to make peace, and I have suggested that I mediate. Whether that happens in a PM or in this thread isn't much of a priority to me. But you claiming to correct him from the Bible is not a valid claim until you can see fit to follow it. John also wrote in his Gospel, chapter 13, verse 35, "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." You are not showing yourself to be a disciple if you scorn a suggestion for peace with your brother in Christ.

 

[Zaac]

Why? I have seen the rest of his quote. You see, I keep up with my threads very intently. You might even call me obsessive in that regard. Anyway, the part you missed:
"The Bible has tons of history and culture behind it, and the only way to know what it says is by learning about it, studying it, and reflecting on said history. Not ignoring it in favor of some feeling you get. "

I saw the rest of his quote too. And the fact that he thinks the Holy Spirit is just some feeling you get reinforces why there is nothing else to say to him.

I do not believe Godschild is being unreasonable. Favoring a feeling over that which you know for a fact and can put to the test does seem a bit foolish, especially when we are dealing with something as important as God's word.

What is foolish is placing more faith in that which man thinks he can prove as act over what God says in His word.

Don't we want to be accurate in what we believe about it?

If you want to be accurate around what you believe, then believe what God says instead of what man thinks he can prove.

How can we do this if we trust something we feel to be true? For example, there are many people who believed the slave trade was justified by the Bible and they too used feelings to justify what they believed. Now, you can argue that they weren't going by the Spirit, and that is true and evidenced by their actions. However, they genuinely believed that what they said about it was the truth.

Our beliefs have nothing to do with what God says is right or wrong. Sin is sin because HE says so not because we think , feel, or believe it to be.

Why did you disregard this matter in his post?

Because folks who favor their feelings over what God says don't warrant me really listening to them. Those type people can't tell me anything but how to be confused and further breed confusion.

Has he really angered you that much that he cannot reason with you?

Tell me you're kidding? What do I have to be angered by? I am saddened when the Body of Christ breeds confusion about God's word because they exhibit more faith in man's feeble attempts to prove what God says than they do in what God says.

I have seen the thread he referenced earlier. He actually suggested that I view it, for my own viewing pleasure, after my suggestion yesterday. He has also brought me up to speed and told me his side of the story, but I have yet to hear yours. So I know that he does view the Bible as authoritative:

While he is just arguing semantics, he made it quite clear that he views the Bible as authoritative. But perhaps you think he is lying now, that he said something earlier about the Bible not having authority? If so, please quote it.

I don't think anything of what he is now saying . So like I said, ain't no need to attempt to mediate between me and someone from whom I don't receive counsel. He will continue to make his accusations and I will continue to use God's words to correct his errors.

So long as you refuse to be at peace with your brother in Christ, you have no right to correct him in anything.

I'm at peace. And will righteously continue to correct that which needs correcting.

He has agreed to make peace, and I have suggested that I mediate.

Then you're wasting your time. I'm not called of God to be at peace with that which goes against Him. So if you're looking to mediate a peace there, you're seriously wasting your time.

Whether that happens in a PM or in this thread isn't much of a priority to me. But you claiming to correct him from the Bible is not a valid claim until you can see fit to follow it.

Wouldn't attempt to correct if I were not. But like I said, you're wasting your time if you think you're going to find a middle ground for me and someone who does not believe the Bible to be God' s authoritative word.

John also wrote in his Gospel, chapter 13, verse 35, "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

My love for him is not conditioned upon me being in agreement with him.

You are not showing yourself to be a disciple if you scorn a suggestion for peace with your brother in Christ.

Please. God has not called the Body to be at peace with that which is in error and constantly sending nasty little pms and at odds with His authoritative word.

If you really feel the need to play mediator, you're gonna have to do so with someone who has a need to be in agreement with those who aren't in agreement with God's word. I'm not one of those.

 

[Zebra1552]

I saw the rest of his quote too. And the fact that he thinks the Holy Spirit is just some feeling you get reinforces why there is nothing else to say to him.

The Holy Spirit serves a purpose, just like Jesus did, and that purpose is not to help us understand the Bible. His purpose is to convict us of sin when we need convicting and help discern right from wrong in gray areas. I challenge you to find any Bible verses that says that the Holy Spirit is meant to help us understand the Bible. If you do, I will concede this point you have made.

What is foolish is placing more faith in that which man thinks he can prove as act over what God says in His word.

It is also foolish to place faith in that which you feel. Are you not a man as well? Logic is far more reliable than feeling.

If you want to be accurate around what you believe, then believe what God says instead of what man thinks he can prove.

I dunno about Jaws, but I believe that the Bible should not be used to interpret the Bible because that is circular reasoning.

Our beliefs have nothing to do with what God says is right or wrong. Sin is sin because HE says so not because we think , feel, or believe it to be.

Sin is sin because of what the Bible says. How do we determine what that says if not by learning the Bible's history and culture?

Because folks who favor their feelings over what God says don't warrant me really listening to them. Those type people can't tell me anything but how to be confused and further breed confusion.

Exactly the point I made earlier, you should not be trusting feelings. Is God a physical manifestation at this time? If not, why should we not trust that which He HAS manifested physically in favor of that which is not manifested physically?

Tell me you're kidding? What do I have to be angered by? I am saddened when the Body of Christ breeds confusion about God's word because they exhibit more faith in man's feeble attempts to prove what God says than they do in what God says.

Citing Romans 1 a bunch of times isn't going to prove anything, analyzing what it says and showing that it says what you say it says will. God did not write the Bible, He inspired it.

I don't think anything of what he is now saying . So like I said, ain't no need to attempt to mediate between me and someone from whom I don't receive counsel. He will continue to make his accusations and I will continue to use God's words to correct his errors.

Then you reject what the Bible has to say about the body of Christ. I make no errors in what I have said, you go ask your pastor. Show him my posts in their proper context, and yours, and I doubt he'll side with you. You have shown nothing but hostility, even after I have attempted to make peace with you. The fact that you continually claim I'm wrong yet have nothing to show for how I am wrong shows that you are not at peace with me.

I'm at peace. And will righteously continue to correct that which needs correcting.

If you're at peace...

Then you're wasting your time. I'm not called of God to be at peace with that which goes against Him. So if you're looking to mediate a peace there, you're seriously wasting your time.

...then explain that sentence. You're contradicting yourself, or you're lying about being at peace, or you're lying about me.

Wouldn't attempt to correct if I were not. But like I said, you're wasting your time if you think you're going to find a middle ground for me and someone who does not believe the Bible to be God' s authoritative word.

It is inspired by God and authoritative. I have said that on many occasions.

My love for him is not conditioned upon me being in agreement with him.

Then why are you still not at peace?

Please. God has not called the Body to be at peace with that which is in error and constantly sending nasty little pms and at odds with His authoritative word.

You have not proven me to be in error except by your own standards.

 

[CShephard53]

I saw the rest of his quote too. And the fact that he thinks the Holy Spirit is just some feeling you get reinforces why there is nothing else to say to him.



What is foolish is placing more faith in that which man thinks he can prove as act over what God says in His word.



If you want to be accurate around what you believe, then believe what God says instead of what man thinks he can prove.



Our beliefs have nothing to do with what God says is right or wrong. Sin is sin because HE says so not because we think , feel, or believe it to be.




Because folks who favor their feelings over what God says don't warrant me really listening to them. Those type people can't tell me anything but how to be confused and further breed confusion.



Tell me you're kidding? What do I have to be angered by? I am saddened when the Body of Christ breeds confusion about God's word because they exhibit more faith in man's feeble attempts to prove what God says than they do in what God says.



I don't think anything of what he is now saying . So like I said, ain't no need to attempt to mediate between me and someone from whom I don't receive counsel. He will continue to make his accusations and I will continue to use God's words to correct his errors.




I'm at peace. And will righteously continue to correct that which needs correcting.






Then you're wasting your time. I'm not called of God to be at peace with that which goes against Him. So if you're looking to mediate a peace there, you're seriously wasting your time.



Wouldn't attempt to correct if I were not. But like I said, you're wasting your time if you think you're going to find a middle ground for me and someone who does not believe the Bible to be God' s authoritative word.



My love for him is not conditioned upon me being in agreement with him.



Please. God has not called the Body to be at peace with that which is in error and constantly sending nasty little pms and at odds with His authoritative word.

If you really feel the need to play mediator, you're gonna have to do so with someone who has a need to be in agreement with those who aren't in agreement with God's word. I'm not one of those.

I have known Godschild since he became a member here about 2 years ago. What you have said about him, highlighted above, is untrue, and you have no reason to be so hostile towards him. He is your brother in Christ, and until you see fit to treat him as such I have nothing more to say to you. I would suggest that he do the same. There is no sense arguing with those that make none.

 

[Zaac]

I have known Godschild since he became a member here about 2 years ago. What you have said about him, highlighted above, is untrue, and you have no reason to be so hostile towards him.

What I have no reason to do is continue in this conversation with either of you. Like I've said, I'm fine. But you seem to have the need to want to mediate.

If you believe his character to be something other than what has been said, that's your prerogative. There are plenty of us who disagree with you.

He is your brother in Christ, and until you see fit to treat him as such I have nothing more to say to you.

I can guarantee you that I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the perceived maltreatment of Godschild. Right now, you seem more interested in stirring the pot than anything else.

As I have said before, I can love him and correct him in the same breath and preach God's word as given in the Bible at the same time (it's a gift of God ). When he or anyone else needs correcting with God's word, I will do so.

For someone who didn't want divisiveness in your thread, you sure are trying hard to be divisive.

I would suggest that he do the same. There is no sense arguing with those that make none.

Ummm. That's why I said earlier that I was done and when he needs correcting, he will be.

 

[colgraff]

This is mainly for the unbelievers in this forum. I haven't posted in quite some time because I've seen a lot of people on this board who start threads on the same issues over and over, saying the same things, and claim they are doing what God wants them to do... My question is, is it moral to continually harp on the same things over and over again with the same people and claim to be doing a good thing? How do you unbelievers feel about the Christian preaching in the area of ethics and morality, do you think it's ethical or Christlike?

Meanwhile back to the OP...

I do not find it a question of morality to voice one's opinion. It is a question of effectiveness. Stupidity is defined as doing the same thing twice and expecting different results. If your goal is to persuade someone else to your position then you'd better understand their arguments and have good counters for them. Otherwise the situation turns into a shouting match. Neither side learning anything and each side [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ed off.

Christlike ?? Not for me to say. Like I hear so many times here "let God judge".

 

[Zaac]

The Holy Spirit serves a purpose, just like Jesus did, and that purpose is not to help us understand the Bible. His purpose is to convict us of sin when we need convicting and help discern right from wrong in gray areas. I challenge you to find any Bible verses that says that the Holy Spirit is meant to help us understand the Bible. If you do, I will concede this point you have made.

Just WOW! I guess this is why God's word says 1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly James 3:1

6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:6-14

It is also foolish to place faith in that which you feel. Are you not a man as well? Logic is far more reliable than feeling.

You haven't seen me say anywhere to live according to your feelings. Your feelings are irrelevant where right and wrong are concerned.

I dunno about Jaws, but I believe that the Bible should not be used to interpret the Bible because that is circular reasoning.

Again, your beliefs are irrelavant. God gives testimony of His own word. And He, the author, is far more capable of telling what His word means than YOU.

Sin is sin because of what the Bible says. How do we determine what that says if not by learning the Bible's history and culture?

Deal with what is on the page. The history and culture are only reinforced and shown to be true based upon what the Holy Spirit delivers as truth.

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:5-6

Exactly the point I made earlier, you should not be trusting feelings.

What are you talking about? The Holy Spirit is GOD. The Holy Spirit is not a feeling.

Is God a physical manifestation at this time? If not, why should we not trust that which He HAS manifested physically in favor of that which is not manifested physically?

Because God is Spirit and you are supposed to be an adherent to GOD and not stuff.

Citing Romans 1 a bunch of times isn't going to prove anything, analyzing what it says and showing that it says what you say it says will. God did not write the Bible, He inspired it.

He inspired men to write down what He needed them to write. He doesn't need your analysis. He gave us the Holy Spirit, not your analysis, to deliver truth.

Then you reject what the Bible has to say about the body of Christ. I make no errors in what I have said, you go ask your pastor. Show him my posts in their proper context, and yours, and I doubt he'll side with you. You have shown nothing but hostility, even after I have attempted to make peace with you. The fact that you continually claim I'm wrong yet have nothing to show for how I am wrong shows that you are not at peace with me.

Dude I reject what YOU say. I don't need cosigners. You apparently have no idea what the Holy Spirit does, which may in turn explain some of your other comments.

If you're at peace...


...then explain that sentence. You're contradicting yourself, or you're lying about being at peace, or you're lying about me.

There seems to be a lot of things you don't understand. I can be perfectly at peace and in complete disagreement with that which is not aligned with God and His word.

Then why are you still not at peace?

Why do you still not believe that the Holy Spirit is fundamental in discerning what God's word says?

You have not proven me to be in error except by your own standards.

I don't have to prove you to be in error. The truth of God's word reveals your error. And as such, I ain't looking to be on the same page as that which ain't aligned with God's word.

 

[Zebra1552]

Just WOW! I guess this is why God's word says 1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly James 3:1

6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:6-14

My challenge was that you show me where the Spirit's job is in helping us interpret Scripture, not understanding the Spiritual. Your verse doesn't show that.

You haven't seen me say anywhere to live according to your feelings. Your feelings are irrelevant where right and wrong are concerned.

Then what is the Holy Spirit?

Again, your beliefs are irrelavant. God gives testimony of His own word. And He, the author, is far more capable of telling what His word means than YOU.

Yeah, and how do you know it's actually God? My beliefs are based on what the Bible's history is, not some feeling about what it says from some prayer.

Deal with what is on the page. The history and culture are only reinforced and shown to be true based upon what the Holy Spirit delivers as truth.

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:5-6

Oh, and you think logic is 'my own understanding'? Then show it.

What are you talking about? The Holy Spirit is GOD. The Holy Spirit is not a feeling.

Can I see God? Touch Him, taste Him, hear Him? Is He a physical manifestation as of right now? Then He is a feeling.

Because God is Spirit and you are supposed to be an adherent to GOD and not stuff.

I adhere to that which can be objectively discerned for the facts I live my life by. Didn't God inspire the Bible?

He inspired men to write down what He needed them to write. He doesn't need your analysis. He gave us the Holy Spirit, not your analysis, to deliver truth.

Then why do we have theologians? Scholars? Are they useless to you?

Dude I reject what YOU say. I don't need cosigners. You apparently have no idea what the Holy Spirit does, which may in turn explain some of your other comments.

I know perfectly well what the role of the Holy Spirit is, He is an arbiter, an advocate, and a guide, not some genie whose lamp I rub every time I want to know what the Bible says.

There seems to be a lot of things you don't understand. I can be perfectly at peace and in complete disagreement with that which is not aligned with God and His word.

You obviously are not at peace with me, considering the insults you're throwing around.

Why do you still not believe that the Holy Spirit is fundamental in discerning what God's word says?

Because I know the Bible, and the Bible says nothing to the effect of relying on the Spirit to interpret the Bible.

I don't have to prove you to be in error. The truth of God's word reveals your error. And as such, I ain't looking to be on the same page as that which ain't aligned with God's word.

You haven't cited ANYTHING from the Bible that reveals this 'error' you keep talking about. So why should I believe that I am in error? You refuse to engage me on a rational plane, why should I listen to you?

 

[CShephard53]

Yes, indeed, back to the OP, so we do not have more people engaging in pointless discourse.

 

[Zebra1552]

Yes, indeed, back to the OP, so we do not have more people engaging in pointless discourse.

There is a time when one must answer a fool according to his folly, and there is a time to be silent. I have been silent for far too long.

 

[Zaac]

My challenge was that you show me where the Spirit's job is in helping us interpret Scripture, not understanding the Spiritual. Your verse doesn't show that.

Sure they do. But seeing as, by your admission, the Holy Spirit doesn't help you with discernement for God's word, I didn't expect you to understand.

Then what is the Holy Spirit?

GOD

Yeah, and how do you know it's actually God? My beliefs are based on what the Bible's history is, not some feeling about what it says from some prayer.

JUST WOW!!!

Oh, and you think logic is 'my own understanding'? Then show it.

Why? You keep giving errors and showing why you're mired in error, and I'll just keep using God's word to correct ya.

Can I see God? Touch Him, taste Him, hear Him? Is He a physical manifestation as of right now? Then He is a feeling.

Just WOW!!!

I adhere to that which can be objectively discerned for the facts I live my life by.

So do a lot of atheists and agnostics and those ruled by science instead of God.

Didn't God inspire the Bible?

Sure did.

Then why do we have theologians? Scholars? Are they useless to you?

Yep. If what they say runs contrary to God's word? Very useless.

I know perfectly well what the role of the Holy Spirit is, He is an arbiter, an advocate, and a guide, not some genie whose lamp I rub every time I want to know what the Bible says.

Could have fooled me as to you knowing the role.

You obviously are not at peace with me, considering the insults you're throwing around.

If you feel insulted, report it. I've done nothing but tell the truth. I don't have to be at peace with anyone or anything that's in opposition to what God says.

So you see, I can be at peace just fine without trying to be at peace with that which is not at peace with God.

Because I know the Bible, and the Bible says nothing to the effect of relying on the Spirit to interpret the Bible.

Yep. Reinforces why it would be foolish of me or any other Christian to receive counsel about God's word from ya.

You haven't cited ANYTHING from the Bible that reveals this 'error' you keep talking about.

Don't have to. I'll just let you keep saying what you say and give God's truth to show why what you say ain't aligned with what His word says.

So why should I believe that I am in error?

If you trust your logic more than you trust God's word, you shouldn't.

You refuse to engage me on a rational plane, why should I listen to you?

I'll engage ya just fine to correct the errors that you speak. Otherwise, ain't much more for me or a handfull of other folks to say to ya.

 

[b&wpac4]

Can I just tell you guys that nobody but you cares who's is bigger, ok?

 

[Zebra1552]

Sure they do. But seeing as, by your admission, the Holy Spirit doesn't help you with discernement for God's word, I didn't expect you to understand.




GOD




JUST WOW!!!




Why? You keep giving errors and showing why you're mired in error, and I'll just keep using God's word to correct ya.





Just WOW!!!






So do a lot of atheists and agnostics and those ruled by science instead of God.



Sure did.




Yep. If what they say runs contrary to God's word? Very useless.




Could have fooled me as to you knowing the role.






If you feel insulted, report it. I've done nothing but tell the truth. I don't have to be at peace with anyone or anything that's in opposition to what God says.

So you see, I can be at peace just fine without trying to be at peace with that which is not at peace with God.




Yep. Reinforces why it would be foolish of me or any other Christian to receive counsel about God's word from ya.




Don't have to. I'll just let you keep saying what you say and give God's truth to show why what you say ain't aligned with what His word says.




If you trust your logic more than you trust God's word, you shouldn't.



I'll engage ya just fine to correct the errors that you speak. Otherwise, ain't much more for me or a handfull of other folks to say to ya.

I don't take correction from those who fail to live what they preach. Goodbye.

 

[CShephard53]

Can I just tell you guys that nobody but you cares who's is bigger, ok?

I don't believe it was about who's bigger. I believe that has been made quite clear by the manner of responses. It takes a bigger man to calm down and agree to aim for peace after some persuasion than to keep beating the issue and reject said peace. I'm quite certain this spat didn't start out with who is the bigger man, unless Godschild is a liar, and I doubt that.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

No I don't. People can believe what they want. I don't have the power to convince anyone that being saved by Christ is different. I expect nonbelievers to NOT believe it. Perhaps one of the major issues nonbelievers have and always have had with Christ is His exclusivity.

So you really don't try and preach to unbelievers, correct? Because if you're not going to offer a rebuttal to obvious logical fallacies, then you're never going to get anywhere. But then, you've already indicated that you don't really care how good a job you do, because you think something else is working through you. I wonder what professions can get away with that attitude...

Really? And deconverted? You're lying to yourself. But like you've been told in accordance with God's word. You can't save yourself and you can't unsave yourself.

It's pretty presumptuous to tell people they're lying to themselves without any evidence. I'm sure people can say the same thing about you.

If you don't know that presents even more evidence of you not being that which you say you USED to be.

Nice dodge. Now tell me what you define a "changed heart" to be...

We're just gonna go back and forth.<staff edit>

Jesus is GOD ALONE.
Only HE saves.
You didn't convert yourself so it's impossinle to deconvert yourself.

This again points to you never knowing Him if you think you "deconverted".

I was a Christian. I deconverted. You inability to give any evidence to the contrary, other than basically saying "nuh uh" over and over is telling. Again, I could just as easily say the same thing about you. And that gets us nowhere...

I can say with 100% certainty. But this goes back to the crux of what I said in my first post as to why it is silly to ask nonChristians what Christlike behavior is.

Here you are, a nonChristian talking about deconverting from Christianity. All that does is reinforce what I said in my OP. It is impossible for one without Christ to understand the things of Christ.

You don't seem to understand. Longtime Christians who deconvert said the same thing you do prior to their deconversion, that they're 100% sure they won't deconvert. And you realize that from the outside you look exactly the same? And that since there's a precedence of people saying they're Christian and then saying they aren't, using your logic (that they couldn't have ever been Christians), there's no reason for me to believe you're a Christian. So why would I ever listen to someone preaching to me about Christianity if I can't be sure they're a Christian?

I didn't contradict anything. It's pretty basic if you let the Holy Sirit direct your understanding and you deal with what is on the page.

You didn't address why you would need the Holy Spirit at all if the text is clear. Or are you saying you were wrong and the text isn't always clear?

If they can reconcile what they are saying with the whole of God's word, then we have something to talk about. If they can't, then I will remain steadfast on what God's word says.

You do realize that there's probably a huge number of people calling themselves Christians that would disagree with some of your interpretations, correct? And do you always maintain that those people are wrong and you're always right, or do you sometimes change your mind based on their interpretations? And if you're changing your mind, does that mean you weren't listening to the Holy Spirit, or were just not hearing it clearly? Or perhaps you mean that you don't always ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, because you thought the text was clear. But then, if you change your mind, the text wasn't that clear to begin with, correct?