Christian Position on Opposing the Legality of Same Sex Marriage of Non-Christians

[DrBubbaLove]

again you wan't your health disparity reason to apply only to the people you want to discriminate against showing quite clearly that it has nothing to do with health or longevity but it is just about the minority you are targeting.

Personal attacks are only strengthening my points about behavior we should not be encouraging.

 

[ExodusMe]

I think the primary issue with same-sex marriage is that marriage has always been understood as a religious commitment. I don't think anyone would have a problem if the government took away the word marriage and called it 'civil-union', then let the religious organizations manage who gets married, etc...

As to whether it should be regulated on grounds of the benefit of the children I do not see that as a strong argument. Although I agree that children would be better off being born in a faithful Christ loving household I do not see it beneficial to target same-sex couples to deny adoption, etc... There are plenty of heterosexual couples who are more terrible and evil than same sex couples. If that was the case then Christian's should be working toward denying anyone who is not a Christian the right to marry or have children, but we don't...

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Hardly.

The children of gay parents turn out just fine.
Perhaps we should remove hetero-parents
from any households with gay children.

And how are unmarried gays worse parents
than married ones FOR THE CHILDREN'S SAKE?
Balderdash!

The SS parents would have to be better than others or adding them to the mix only keeps the fire burning or if they are worse fans the fire already destroying the basic building block of society. The family unit is suffering, that being true and in order to improve things as they are, we should only be encouraging things that are demonstrably better than what we are doing now. Showing that there is no difference is not helping the situation.

 

[ken777]

Hardly.
The children of gay parents turn out just fine.
Perhaps we should remove hetero-parents
from any households with gay children.
And how are unmarried gays worse parents
than married ones FOR THE CHILDREN'S SAKE?
Balderdash!

Arguments that are bolstered by shouting and expletives are always weak.

You did not once address the issue of children's rights. The government should not sanction the deliberate denial of the right of children to have a mother and a father.

The evidence from Sweden indicates that same sex marriages suffer from greater mental instability and suicide than do heterosexual marriages. The government should promote & protect the right of children to have the optimal environment to flourish.

The government should only rarely intervene in established domestic arrangements, but it can support policies that promote & protect marriage as the best means for nurturing the next generation, which includes the right to a mother and a father.

 

[ken777]

How is "being black" considered a behavior?

You are right to call out the foolishness of the comparison of color & homosexuality. Skin color has nothing to do with feelings or behavior whereas homosexuality is all about feelings & behavior.

No amount of social change will result in more people becoming black, or "behaving black", but studies show that change in social attitudes (which is bolstered by gay affirmative legislation, including ssm) has resulted in more people willing to engage in same sex behavior.

 

[SkyWriting]

Arguments that are bolstered by shouting and expletives are always weak.

You did not once address the issue of children's rights. The government should not sanction the deliberate denial of the right of children to have a mother and a father.

The evidence from Sweden indicates that same sex marriages suffer from greater mental instability and suicide than do heterosexual marriages. The government should promote & protect the right of children to have the optimal environment to flourish.

The government should only rarely intervene in established domestic arrangements, but it can support policies that promote & protect marriage as the best means for nurturing the next generation, which includes the right to a mother and a father.

Where did this right to a mother and father come from?
May we see this Swedish research?
I'm guessing that income levels will have a bigger impact on mental instability.
My wife, a special ed teacher, will give you some insights on children and
mental issues. I assure you, same sex parents isn't even a bump on a
graph compared to income levels. But I'll be glad to see your graphs!
She does not have a class of 25 kids screwed up becasue of same sex
parents. By the way, there are a number of such parents teaching.

 

[SkyWriting]

Arguments that are bolstered by shouting and expletives are always weak.

Balderdash is a noun. Generalizations are often silly.

 

[SkyWriting]

You are right to call out the foolishness of the comparison of color & homosexuality. Skin color has nothing to do with feelings or behavior whereas homosexuality is all about feelings & behavior.

No amount of social change will result in more people becoming black, or "behaving black", but studies show that change in social attitudes (which is bolstered by gay affirmative legislation, including ssm) has resulted in more people willing to engage in same sex behavior.

But some social changes did result in blacks showing up on the front
of the bus, and allowed into public restrooms. You may have noticed
more blacks in neighboring stalls even. And suddenly appearing in
local schools, like they were coming out of the woodwork.
And on TV having talk shows of their own?

 

[SkyWriting]

The SS parents would have to be better than others or adding them to the mix only keeps the fire burning or if they are worse fans the fire already destroying the basic building block of society. The family unit is suffering, that being true and in order to improve things as they are, we should only be encouraging things that are demonstrably better than what we are doing now. Showing that there is no difference is not helping the situation.

The fact that most women have families without being married,
is not related to having gay partners, except by interfering laws.
And if you're suggesting that gay partners make poorer family units
then the argument is without merit.

 

[SkyWriting]

Legal recognition of a behavior will increase its social acceptance and its occurrence (eg abortion). The legalization of ssm will increase the social acceptance of homosexuality and therefore the number of people who are willing to engage in this behavior.From a Christian perspective , laws that encourage any increase in immoral behavior are detrimental to society.

Current laws allow you to have sex without being watched or your techniques judged
or your partner scrutinized. These are the laws we wish to get rid of? What?

 

[SkyWriting]

Showing that there is no difference is not helping the situation.

Good information always improves the situation.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

The fact that most women have families without being married,
is not related to having gay partners, except by interfering laws.
And if you're suggesting that gay partners make poorer family units
then the argument is without merit.

Am saying unless they are better parents, the situation would not be improved.

 

[SkyWriting]

Am saying unless they are better parents, the situation would not be improved.

I see that they are better with my eyes.
I'm not sure what others have seen.
Do those who speak against have any
first hand information?

 

[SkyWriting]

You did not once address the issue of children's rights. The government should not sanction the deliberate denial of the right of children to have a mother and a father.

Children have no greater rights than anyone else.
Do you have such rights for access to your parents?

 

[SkyWriting]

No amount of social change will result in more people becoming black, or "behaving black", but studies show that change in social attitudes (which is bolstered by gay affirmative legislation, including ssm) has resulted in more people willing to engage in same sex behavior.

But more gays will spring up?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I see that they are better with my eyes.
I'm not sure what others have seen.
Do those who speak against have any
first hand information?

And we all know hetero families that are better and also some worse than average.
When we ask if a behavior is benefiting a society as a whole, it is a larger question than can we find examples where it seems to. Such examples are not "proof" the behavior as a whole creates a net positive. Affluence or at least not being impoverished is a large factor in the success of any parent. There is a risk in researching human behavior by sampling in unintentionally skewing the results in the method of sampling. One issue with adoption is the majority of people adopting are not impoverished for example, which means it would be important to randomize inclusion in the study and also be concerned more about sample size to avoid having affluence skew the result.

In any case, my point was never that no SS family or single homosexual parents could successfully raise children better than the average hetero family. My point was that to improve the existing state of family units when adding them to the mix, they would statistically have to be better at it. Otherwise adding them to the mix can only increase the troubles we already have in terms of just numbers (as in more of same) or make it worse.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I'm okay with same sex marriage being legal in the United States as I don't really care what two consenting adults do.

My denomination and church are very conservative on this issue though.

Idk how I feel about homosexual coups adopting children, though.

 

[ken777]

But more gays will spring up?

If you read my post, and the study I linked, you will see that I was referring to an increase in the number of people willing to engage in same sex behavior.

Sexuality is much more complex than dividing people into heterosexuals & homosexuals. Sexual attraction is scattered along a continuum and for some people the selection of a sexual partner is a choice (about 50% of 18-24 year olds according to this source).

My argument was that legislation (such as ssm) helps to change people's attitudes, and attitude helps to determine behavior.

From the Christian perspective, same sex behavior is immoral and therefore Christians should not support legislation & educational programs that contribute to an increase in immoral behavior.

 

[ken777]

I'm okay with same sex marriage being legal in the United States as I don't really care what two consenting adults do.

I don't really care what two consenting adults do either.

I do care what our children are taught, and I do care that Christians with a religious objection to providing specialized goods and/or onsite service for ss weddings are liable to prosecution, and I do care that heterosexual marriage, which provides both a mother and a father, is no longer promoted & protected as the best environment for raising the next generation.

On a more personal level, I care that my niece who is an expert cake decorator, and struggling to pay her way through university, can no longer put an ad on the community noticeboard at our local shopping center advertising her services without fear of being prosecuted for declining to decorate a cake for a ss wedding.

As Justice Bosson stated, Christian business owners "are now compelled by law to compromise the very religious beliefs that inspire their lives."

 

[SkyWriting]

If you read my post, and the study I linked, you will see that I was referring to an increase in the number of people willing to engage in same sex behavior.

Sexuality is much more complex than dividing people into heterosexuals & homosexuals. Sexual attraction is scattered along a continuum and for some people the selection of a sexual partner is a choice (about 50% of 18-24 year olds according to this source).

My argument was that legislation (such as ssm) helps to change people's attitudes, and attitude helps to determine behavior.

From the Christian perspective, same sex behavior is immoral and therefore Christians should not support legislation & educational programs that contribute to an increase in immoral behavior.

The "Christian" perspective is to treat others as you would have
them treat you. There is no other rational option.

We do have legislation that allows for people to close their
door and more rules that restrict search by authorities.

These laws contribute to the ability of same sex couples
to have relationships behind closed doors.
We allow unrelated people to live together in the same
dwelling....this list goes on and on with no discrimination
of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, habits, dreams,
height, age, hobbies, color, religion, etc.

You suggest that these laws should be removed becasue they
allow for increases in what you mistakenly call immoral.


Mark 12:31 - Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Luke 10:25-28
...do this, and you will live.