Christian Position on Opposing the Legality of Same Sex Marriage of Non-Christians

[redstang281]

I'm not asking if same sex relationships are compatible with Scripture. I know they're not, and I'm not having a crisis over it or anything like that. What I'm wondering about is to what degree should we oppose it on a legal level. I started thinking about it when reading Mere Christianity again. As C.S. Lewis says:

"Before leaving the question of divorce, I should like to distinguish two things which are very often confused. The Christian conception of marriage is one: the other is quite the different question—how far Christians, if they are voters or Members of Parliament, ought to try to force their views of marriage on the rest of the community by embodying them in the divorce laws. A great many people seem to think that if you are a Christian yourself you should try to make divorce difficult for every one. I do not think that. At least I know I should be very angry if the Mohammedans tried to prevent the rest of us from drinking wine.

My own view is that the Churches should frankly recognize that the majority of the British people are not Christian and, therefore, cannot be expected to live Christian lives. There ought to be two distinct kinds of marriage: one governed by the State with rules enforced on all citizens, the other governed by the church with rules enforced by her on her own members. The distinction ought to be quite sharp, so that a man knows which couples are married in a Christian sense and which are not."

What do you guys think? I realize Lewis isn't scripture, and would never treat it as such. However, Christ makes it clear that His kingdom isn't of this world, and the apostles always wrote to be loyal, even during persecution.

Should we just make a distinction between Godly and worldly marriages?

Hello,

I'd like to add my thoughts on this. This thread is very long and I tried to read through most of it, but from what I could tell no one else made this point. If you read in Leviticus chapter 18 it gives a list of sexual sins. Now people like to add to the list a lot of things that aren't there, but homosexuality is definitely in the list (v22). Now you said you understand that it is a sin but your question is should we try to force other people (non Christians) to obey our laws.

Have a look at this section of Leviticus 18.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

v25 says God punished these other lands for their defilement. These other lands were not people of faith. God still holds them accountable. Whether or not they acknowledge or recognize him he is still God and they still are accountable to him. The same with Sodom and Gomorrah, God sent angels to destroy them. The angels did not stop before entering the city and say "hey its ok, these people aren't people of faith so they don't have to obey our rules".

Maybe it doesn't seem fair that people not of our faith should be subject to our laws, but that's not for us to decide. We need to not think about what does man want we have to think about what does God want. God wants our country to behave in certain ways so as much as we can help it we should fight for those laws to align with God's will.

 

[ken777]

Hello,

I'd like to add my thoughts on this. This thread is very long and I tried to read through most of it, but from what I could tell no one else made this point. If you read in Leviticus chapter 18 it gives a list of sexual sins. Now people like to add to the list a lot of things that aren't there, but homosexuality is definitely in the list (v22). Now you said you understand that it is a sin but your question is should we try to force other people (non Christians) to obey our laws.

Have a look at this section of Leviticus 18.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

v25 says God punished these other lands for their defilement. These other lands were not people of faith. God still holds them accountable. Whether or not they acknowledge or recognize him he is still God and they still are accountable to him. The same with Sodom and Gomorrah, God sent angels to destroy them. The angels did not stop before entering the city and say "hey its ok, these people aren't people of faith so they don't have to obey our rules".

Maybe it doesn't seem fair that people not of our faith should be subject to our laws, but that's not for us to decide. We need to not think about what does man want we have to think about what does God want. God wants our country to behave in certain ways so as much as we can help it we should fight for those laws to align with God's will.

A recent study concluded: "We provide evidence that implementation of same-sex marriage policies reduced adolescent suicide attempts. As countries around the world consider enabling or restricting same-sex marriage, we provide evidence that implementing same-sex marriage policies was associated with improved population health. Policymakers should consider the mental health consequences of same-sex marriage policies."

As Christians opposed to same sex marriage we have to confront this evidence honestly.

I would argue that legalizing all drugs could reduce the number of drug related deaths but as a society we realize that such a step could be accompanied by a rise in drug use.

A study in the UK showed that about 50% of young people are open to considering a same sex experience or relationship. Legislation that promotes positive attitudes towards ss behavior (such as ssm) encourages the occurrence of same sex behavior, which is detrimental to society in physical, mental & spiritual dimensions.

Evidence from Sweden, a society very tolerant of ss behavior, indicates that same sex marriages suffer from greater mental instability and suicide than do heterosexual marriages. The government should promote & protect the right of children to have the optimal environment to flourish.

Edited to fix link.

 

[SilverBear]

Hello,

I'd like to add my thoughts on this. This thread is very long and I tried to read through most of it, but from what I could tell no one else made this point. If you read in Leviticus chapter 18 it gives a list of sexual sins. Now people like to add to the list a lot of things that aren't there, but homosexuality is definitely in the list (v22). Now you said you understand that it is a sin but your question is should we try to force other people (non Christians) to obey our laws.

Have a look at this section of Leviticus 18.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

v25 says God punished these other lands for their defilement. These other lands were not people of faith. God still holds them accountable. Whether or not they acknowledge or recognize him he is still God and they still are accountable to him. The same with Sodom and Gomorrah, God sent angels to destroy them. The angels did not stop before entering the city and say "hey its ok, these people aren't people of faith so they don't have to obey our rules".

Maybe it doesn't seem fair that people not of our faith should be subject to our laws, but that's not for us to decide. We need to not think about what does man want we have to think about what does God want. God wants our country to behave in certain ways so as much as we can help it we should fight for those laws to align with God's will.

Do you follow all the laws of Leviticus? Or do you live under the new covenant?

 

[SilverBear]

A recent study concluded: "We provide evidence that implementation of same-sex marriage policies reduced adolescent suicide attempts. As countries around the world consider enabling or restricting same-sex marriage, we provide evidence that implementing same-sex marriage policies was associated with improved population health. Policymakers should consider the mental health consequences of same-sex marriage policies."

As Christians opposed to same sex marriage we have to confront this evidence honestly.

I would argue that legalizing all drugs could reduce the number of drug related deaths but as a society we realize that such a step could be accompanied by a rise in drug use.

is this in any way an honest comparison? No, it isn't.
The high rate of suicide in GLBT youth is tied directly to hate, prejudice, discrimination and rejection. Drug related deaths are the result of overdosing and addiction.

A study in the UK showed that about 50% of young people are open to considering a same sex experience or relationship. Legislation that promotes positive attitudes towards ss behavior (such as ssm) encourages the occurrence of same sex behavior, which is detrimental to society in physical, mental & spiritual dimensions.

That's not what your linked study says at all.

Evidence from Sweden, a society very tolerant of ss behavior, indicates that same sex marriages suffer from greater mental instability and suicide than do heterosexual marriages. The government should promote & protect the right of children to have the optimal environment to flourish.

Edited to fix link.

yeah...the study being put up here involved 6,548 married same sex couples beginning in 1996 and ending in 2011. In that time frame a total of 9 same-sex married men committed suicide.

The study concludes:
"Possible explanations of our findings include that sexual minority individuals experience anti-gay stigma and are at higher risk for depression than their heterosexual peers, which is the most prominent risk factor for suicide. According to Meyer’s minority stress model, the experience of prejudice events, expectations of rejection, hiding and concealing of one’s sexual identity, internalized homophobia, and ameliorative coping processes are associated with the increased levels of mental ill health and suicidal behavior among sexual minorities."

It's not begin gay, it's being hated.

 

[redstang281]

Do you follow all the laws of Leviticus? Or do you live under the new covenant?

Some things in Leviticus were meant for only Israel, but not everything. These sexual sins go beyond just Leviticus (Romans 1:24, 1 Timothy 1:10).

As you can see God holds nations accountable that were not even under Jewish law, so why shouldn't he hold nations accountable today?

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin,.....

 

[SilverBear]

Some things in Leviticus were meant for only Israel, but not everything. These sexual sins go beyond just Leviticus (Romans 1:24, 1 Timothy 1:10).

As you can see God holds nations accountable that were not even under Jewish law, so why shouldn't he hold nations accountable today?

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin,.....

I must have missed the chapter and verse where the bible says some of the laws of Leviticus are still in play. Could you cite it for me?

 

[redstang281]

I must have missed the chapter and verse where the bible says some of the laws of Leviticus are still in play. Could you cite it for me?

Why does God punish the other nations for their sexual sins?

 

[SilverBear]

Why does God punish the other nations for their sexual sins?

So you can't provide a citation.

 

[redstang281]

So you can't provide a citation.

My point isn't that we are under the Leviticus law. My point is that these sexual sins mentioned in chapter 18 are not meant just for Israel, they are meant for all nations.

The other nations mentioned in the verse I quoted became defiled it says because they did these sexual sins. Those nations were not under the Leviticus law just like we aren't. So if these sexual sins can condemn other nations outside of Jewish law then they can also condemn the united states or any other nation. These are eternal standards of morality and decency.

If you disagree please explain why did God judged other nations for sexual sins then and also why he would not judge the usa or any other modern nation the same way.

 

[SilverBear]

My point isn't that we are under the Leviticus law. My point is that these sexual sins mentioned in chapter 18 are not meant just for Israel, they are meant for all nations.

The other nations mentioned in the verse I quoted became defiled it says because they did these sexual sins. Those nations were not under the Leviticus law just like we aren't. So if these sexual sins can condemn other nations outside of Jewish law then they can also condemn the united states or any other nation. These are eternal standards of morality and decency.

If you disagree please explain why did God judged other nations for sexual sins then and also why he would not judge the usa or any other modern nation the same way.

So you think that God didn’t judge America over the Native American Genocide. The millions that were raped, murdered and displaced. God didn’t judge America on the centuries of enslavement of millions of Africans. God didn’t judge America on Japanese internment camps, segregation, or ice pick lobotomies. God didn’t judge America over our disregard for the poor, the homeless, the sick and dying. God didn’t judge us on our turning our backs on refugees….but we will be condemned because of gay marriage.

 

[redstang281]

So you think that God didn’t judge America over the Native American Genocide. The millions that were raped, murdered and displaced. God didn’t judge America on the centuries of enslavement of millions of Africans. God didn’t judge America on Japanese internment camps, segregation, or ice pick lobotomies. God didn’t judge America over our disregard for the poor, the homeless, the sick and dying. God didn’t judge us on our turning our backs on refugees….but we will be condemned because of gay marriage.

Support sexual sins will just be one more thing to add to our list of judgements. I think Christians should work to get the list as small as possible even if it displeases man. I think we should serve God rather than man.

 

[ken777]

Support sexual sins will just be one more thing to add to our list of judgements. I think Christians should work to get the list as small as possible even if it displeases man. I think we should serve God rather than man.

You are right to identify support for homosexuality as a significant reason for God's judgment on a nation. No matter how gay activists try to camouflage it, a study of all the Biblical references to Sodom show that it was destroyed because of same sex behavior.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 refers to "abomination" (singular) as the reason God "took them away". Ezekiel's referencing of the Levitcal holiness code (supported by 2 Peter 2:7-8 & Jude 1:7) indicates the abomination was homosexuality.

Certainly the world has never seen such an overwhelming support for homosexuality, to the extent that Christians are punished for holding to their belief in traditional marriage. No wonder so many Christians see Luke 17:29-30 as pointing to this generation.