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ChavaK · Dec 6, 2011

xDenax said:
But if I understand correctly most of the Messianics are allowed to post in those section too.

That's my understanding too, as CF recognizes trinitarian Messianics as
being Christians.

anisavta · Dec 6, 2011

I would hope I am allowed some distinctions.

AngeliaBell · Dec 6, 2011

Roni999 said:
And that is where my topic really started, do they think that we as Messianic Believers are Christians or not?

Sounds a little bit like "Who do they say that I am?"

In any case, I find it interesting that the super Christians do something very interesting when they find out I'm a little different. They quiz me on what I believe. Such as, do you believe that by not eating pork that you are more saved? Do you believe that you should stone people? Do you believe that salvation is by grace?

They go through their litmus test of "do I believe enough of the right theology to actually be saved". Haha.

I hate to break it to them, but I could believe we all were put here by aliens and we should all smoke dope but if I have repented and turned my heart toward God, I have been admitted into his saving grace.

Gettin' saved/born again ain't a theological exam. Just ask the two thieves on the cross. They probably died believing all sorts of heresies!

It's a total work of the heart, not of the head.

So Roni, my dear one, you are a Christian if your heart is turned toward God. What other Christians think doesn't really amount to a hill of beans.

anisavta · Dec 6, 2011

And if those of us who don't label ourselves as Christians believe that Yeshua is our atonement then we should be on the same page too.

ContraMundum · Dec 6, 2011

It's really pretty simple. If you believe that the Creeds (in particular the Nicene) are the correct exposition and outline of the important core of the scriptures, than you are a Christian, whether you label yourself as Messianic or Catholic, or whatever. Messianic is considered a sub-set of Christianity for the purposes of this forum. If you have a Messianic icon on your profile, then you can post in the Christian sections of the forum that are open to you within the guidelines of the sub-forum you are posting in.

As for the dispensationalist problem mentioned, I have found that many Messianics are very influenced by dispensationalism, so that in itself is not really a core difference between the other Christians and the Messianics here. Like replacement theology, its really a minority thing that Christians on all sides of the spectrum will struggle with within the community at large.

ContraMundum · Dec 6, 2011

anisavta said:
And if those of us who don't label ourselves as Christians believe that Yeshua is our atonement then we should be on the same page too.

It's got to reach beyond the atonement- the JWs and Mormons believe in the atonement too.

ContraMundum · Dec 6, 2011

visionary said:
It reflects in many aspects of our walk and talk, so much so, that the "roman and greek style"' Christians are amazed and confused.

The more I meet Christians from all walks of life, the less I see that they are amazed and confused at the Messianic Movement. More like amazed at the confusion they witness from high profile wanna-be MJs like Michael Rood and the Two-House preachers. Isn't it sad that those guys are becoming the visible flagship admirals of the movement, when hardly any Messianics actually follow them? As I said to EasyG earlier, the MJ movement needs to work harder at getting the better preachers to the fore and speak against the fringe preachers.

pilgrim13 · Dec 6, 2011

ContraMundum said:
The more I meet Christians from all walks of life, the less I see that they are amazed and confused at the Messianic Movement. More like amazed at the confusion they witness from high profile wanna-be MJs like Michael Rood and the Two-House preachers. Isn't it sad that those guys are becoming the visible flagship admirals of the movement, when hardly any Messianics actually follow them? As I said to EasyG earlier, the MJ movement needs to work harder at getting the better preachers to the fore and speak against the fringe preachers.

I've read this entire thread, but haven't seen where anyone has said what they mean when they claim to be Messianic. I have always thought that Messianic referred to a Jewish version of Christianity which gives special attention to Jewish practices. This sounds a lot like just another denomination to me. If someone could clarify for me, I would appreciate it.

Also, I have never heard of Messianic Gentiles. Is that simply a Christian gentile who adheres to Jewish traditions?

ContraMundum · Dec 6, 2011

pilgrim13 said:
I've read this entire thread, but haven't seen where anyone has said what they mean when they claim to be Messianic. I have always thought that Messianic referred to a Jewish version of Christianity which gives special attention to Jewish practices. This sounds a lot like just another denomination to me. If someone could clarify for me, I would appreciate it.

I see it that way. Because I believe that denominations are outgrowths of culture and theology, I see that MJism is like that. This is not a bad thing, either. It's just a natural occurance.

Also, I have never heard of Messianic Gentiles. Is that simply a Christian gentile who adheres to Jewish traditions?

I think so, or a person of Gentile cultural background who attends a congregation that is self-declared Messianic.

someguy14 · Dec 6, 2011

Hi Roni999

Roni999 said:
And that is where my topic really started, do they think that we as Messianic Believers are Christians or not?

I believe so. A Christian is a follower of Christ.
Let love guide us. God bless.

Tishri1 · Dec 7, 2011

Roni999 said:
You missed my point.
This is from the Christian Forums main site where you pick a Forum to go to.
If we as MJ's go to one of those Forums could we post? I almost feel like because I am a Messianic Believer that they would not consider me Christian.

Your a Christian

pat34lee · Dec 7, 2011

someguy14 said:
I believe so. A Christian is a follower of Christ.
Let love guide us. God bless.

That is where the problem begins. Christ or Messiah? The Hebrew Messiah who came to lead us back to the father and Torah, or the Greek Christ who did away with the law so we could eat ham and worship like pagans?

someguy14 · Dec 7, 2011

pat34lee said:
That is where the problem begins. Christ or Messiah? The Hebrew Messiah who came to lead us back to the father and Torah, or the Greek Christ who did away with the law so we could eat ham and worship like pagans?

God bless, friend.

Jesus was a jew. Born in Bethlehem, Israel.
Jesus did not do away with the law, Jesus helps to show how we are to abide in the law friends. How to fulfill it perfectly so that all may be able to do Gods will, love.

Love is the fulfilling of Gods law. By abiding in Love, we are abiding in the laws of God. Love does no ill towards his neighbor and love gives credit to where credit belongs, God. Those that throw away Gods law are those that have erred and are attempting to throw away Gods will for each of us. Yes we are attacked by those that misunderstood Pauls writings. Gods love is the law. Messiah teaches that Love is abiding in Gods law. Love is the law. All commandments are obeyed by loving.

Hope this isn't breaking forum rules. Much love anyway friends.

ContraMundum · Dec 7, 2011

pat34lee said:
That is where the problem begins. Christ or Messiah? The Hebrew Messiah who came to lead us back to the father and Torah, or the Greek Christ who did away with the law so we could eat ham and worship like pagans?

I think there is no real difference, as I have never heard the Greek Jesus you speak of preached anywhere, and I always feel a little saddened when I see people make such a distinction, which I believe only exists in the imaginations of men.

Rock Ministries · Dec 7, 2011

If you have asked Jesus to forgive you of your sins, and have made Him Lord of your life, then regardless of anything else you are a Christian. Theological differences are man's limited understanding making the truth complicated. God's Word, is easy to understand with a pure heart, those that don't understand are filled with man's ideas and not the mind of Christ. Don't be frustrated by the misguided views of others, they need your prayers and compassion. That is why we as Christians are to "Love one another". Love is unconditional, even when our views differ. Be strong in the Lord, and allow the peace of God to rule your heart and mind. Be Blessed

Yusuphhai · Dec 7, 2011

Hi all. in fact in China, believers of Judaism would think me as "Christian".But many general "Christians" don't think me as "Christian",just because of Messianic opinions. I have never asked any "Christian" to receive MJ doctrine, but actually I have been exiled by three churches at least. Now I only have a MJ group of 2 persons, and have few christian friends to meet.

someguy14 · Dec 7, 2011

Yusuphhai said:
Hi all. in fact in China, believers of Judaism would think me as "Christian".But many general "Christians" don't think me as "Christian",just because of Messianic opinions. I have never asked any "Christian" to receive MJ doctrine, but actually I have been exiled by three churches at least. Now I only have a MJ group of 2 persons, and have few christian friends to meet.

God is our common ground, our redeeemer and deliverer.
We are one in a glorious God friend.
May God bless.

visionary · Dec 7, 2011

Yusuphhai said:
Hi all. in fact in China, believers of Judaism would think me as "Christian".But many general "Christians" don't think me as "Christian",just because of Messianic opinions. I have never asked any "Christian" to receive MJ doctrine, but actually I have been exiled by three churches at least. Now I only have a MJ group of 2 persons, and have few christian friends to meet.

We love you... So you are feeling like a misfit in among God's people, something like Yeshua must have felt when they shooshed Him from town to town cause they didn't want to hear the truth.

Roni999 · Dec 7, 2011

pilgrim13 said:
I've read this entire thread, but haven't seen where anyone has said what they mean when they claim to be Messianic. I have always thought that Messianic referred to a Jewish version of Christianity which gives special attention to Jewish practices. This sounds a lot like just another denomination to me. If someone could clarify for me, I would appreciate it.

Also, I have never heard of Messianic Gentiles. Is that simply a Christian gentile who adheres to Jewish traditions?

I am a Messianic Believer, I do not use the word Gentile when I talk about myself because I have left the Gentile ways (trying too).There is probably still somethings I do that are still Gentile to a Jew if he were to visit me.
There are Christians that call themselves Messianic that do not keep kosher or Sabbath, but they believe that the Torah is valid but it still does not apply to them. Which for me is confusing they aren't Messianic they are still Christians.
To me a Messianic is someone who believes:
1. Yeshua is the Son of God (which Christians believe)
2. The Torah is Valid (something they don't believe)
3. We are encouraged to Keep Torah (something they think is impossible)
I don't believe God expects those of us from a Gentile background to walk in His Torah the instant we are saved. But we are to Listen and Obey. And if we have questions about a certain commandment we need to ask someone who knows about it.

de·nom·i·na·tion   [dih-nom-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1.
a religious group, usually including many local churches, often larger than a sect: the Lutheran denomination.

We are still to small of a group to be a denomination as quoted from dictionary(dot)com. We are still a "sect".

There are Baptists and Nazarenes in every city, town and county in the USA. However, there is not a Messianic congregation in all cities and towns "yet". We can only hope that one day we will be a Denomination and it is not a bad thing, words are words. There are different 'denominations' of Jews. Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox.

Okay, I think I am done rambling.

Roni999 · Dec 7, 2011

MichaelTheeArchAngel said:
The reason I use the name "Yahshua," is because the name Jesus never existed before the 14th century AD.

Hey Michael,
There is a guy in Christian Chat rooms forums (a separate Chat site), that says the complete opposite. How he can think that Yeshua had a Greek name is beyond me. I would quote him if I knew it was okay. But he claims that IeSous is pronounce Jesus not Joshua.

And since I am on the topic of the Name Jesus has anyone noticed that the Mexicans name their children "Jesus". Which sounds like "Hay Zeus" when you pronounce it. I have never figured out how the English (in King James time) came up with the name Jesus in the first place. Is there somewhere that shows how they did come up with it? I don't know Greek to know how to pronounce it like they would. The Google translator says, Esous. Where did the J come from?

Isn't translating fun, it starts out Hebrew goes to Greek and then English. No wonder we are confused. LOL

Okay, I am rambling now.

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