Christian Nudists

[Darkhorse]

LOL. Speak for yourself, Old Timer.


I know in high school our boys locker room--used for gym class too--had open showers. The big wide room type with several showers heads. Do they even still make high school showers like that any more?

Sorry...I forget that I'm 61 years old!

I don't know if schools still have those kind of showers, but I've heard that students were no longer required to shower after P.E., so many don't.

A few years ago at a local pool, my sons and I showered nude in a similar kind of shower, and the teenagers there (wearing swimsuits) screeched and ran away like debutantes being mooned at a dinner party.

Here are some sites you might enjoy:

 

[Cactus Jack]

I was a nudist when I was a little kid, and still am. My family was nudist as well. It was tough to manage as a kid. Sexual jokes from family made it feel demeaning, to the point that I quit being naked around family. They thought the jokes were funny, but they really are, if anything, dehumanizing.

So am I a nudist? Yeah. Just not a social nudist. In fact I have spent several weeks on a long deserved vacation, and most of it I spent naked. Nothing sexual. I didn't even "m". How is that sick or sexual or...? Who cares?

 

[SuperCloud]

Sorry...I forget that I'm 61 years old!

I don't know if schools still have those kind of showers, but I've heard that students were no longer required to shower after P.E., so many don't.

A few years ago at a local pool, my sons and I showered nude in a similar kind of shower, and the teenagers there (wearing swimsuits) screeched and ran away like debutantes being mooned at a dinner party.

Bwahaha!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it was that kind of shower in video #2 below, with shower heads on both walls. I didn't have that in grade school, only in high school (later in the Marine Corps), and I was pretty scared about it. My cousin was about to enter a different high school I remember we mentioned it on the phone and he admitted fear about it too. I physically matured slower and later than most other males, so, entering high school I had no hair development and was pretty self conscious about that.

But once I got to doing it it was no big deal. In fact, it probably worked for the good because I lost most if not all of that fear.

I do recall... like video 2 I think mentions... that the girls showers were individual with curtains. Being gentle on female sensibilities was expected. There was mainly disregard for this for boys. In fact, I think you would have been ridiculed by the adult teachers and administration if you even expressed fear.

Actually, thinking about high school football and wrestling, the adult male coaches treated us like grown men gave us none of the respect of grown men. Kind of weird. Today it seems to be the reverse. Teenagers are given the respect accorded adults but not spoken to harshly like adults or treated like adults in that sense.

Here are some sites you might enjoy:

Thanks! Those were some educational videos. The most I've ever learned on this site. I totally had no idea nude group swimming, even for grade school boys, was so wide spread in the USA only several decades ago.

I'm surprised by all this just like when I found out in my mid 20s (I was born in 1971) that the Catholic Mass used to be said all in Latin and the priest faced the high alter. I was actually a bit angry finding that out about the Catholic Mass as I felt a thousand or more years of tradition had been stripped, stolen from me, deprived of an inheritance. And I could not believe that a virtual amnesia happened over this.

But yeah... back to the swimming... none of that would be possible today. Probably shouldn't be. It would probably be to open to perversions today. Maybe. Certainly the sensibilities have changed. Not sure I want to be swimming in a pool full of naked men and boys anyways. I've never done that and it would be totally "gay" to me--in a weird and disturbing way.

 

[dayhiker]

Thought I'd address the 3rd world comment. I don't have much personal experience. But its my understanding that the 3rd world was very comfortable with nudity, especially in hot climates until Christian missionaries came and shamed them into putting clothes on. in a related topic, it was interesting in Bible college, that often the students from 3rd world countries wear suites way more often than us Americans. I know I'd always hated suits and only ware one when I have too. Even my conservative pastor often now doesn't wear a suit to preach in any more. But the missionary videos I see of third world countries often have the leaders at least in suits even in pretty hot climates.

To me this was the western culture being exported to the 3rd world more than any Biblical ethic.

 

[SuperCloud]

Thought I'd address the 3rd world comment. I don't have much personal experience. But its my understanding that the 3rd world was very comfortable with nudity, especially in hot climates until Christian missionaries came and shamed them into putting clothes on. in a related topic, it was interesting in Bible college, that often the students from 3rd world countries wear suites way more often than us Americans. I know I'd always hated suits and only ware one when I have too. Even my conservative pastor often now doesn't wear a suit to preach in any more. But the missionary videos I see of third world countries often have the leaders at least in suits even in pretty hot climates.

To me this was the western culture being exported to the 3rd world more than any Biblical ethic.

The terms "First World," "Second World," and "Third World" were created to differentiate certain countries from the communist nations.

The "Second World" were communist nations and the "First World" were the high-income nations of the capitalist democracies. It was those of the "First World" that created these terms and they placed all nations outside of the First and Second under the label "Third World."

Today sociologists view these terms as outdated since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They prefer to use the terms "high-income," "medium-income," and "low-income" nations. Basing these things off of per capita incomes.

When the Spaniards and others arrived they did overtime begin to force full clothing norms on the Amerindians. The Tupi Amerindian walked around nearly naked or even totally naked. The Spaniards with no wives (as most of them came with none) wrote letters about this extolling the shapely butts of the Tupi women that they regarded as better than "their own women" (Spanish women). So, they as sexually charged men were fine with this. It was exotic to them as well.

The clergy viewed these Tupi Amerindians as "innocents." Innocent like a child. To some extent anyways. They did not view them as sinless.

But the "West" in truth included the Spanish, French, and Portuguese as well, all of whom have their languages derived in some degree from the Latin of the ancient Romans. The British and Dutch weren't the only Europeans of the "West" as if they solely inherited all things cultural from the ancient Romans (Italians).

The clothing of Europeans were adopted by Amerindians and their mixed-race offspring long before the terms First, Second, and Third World were created.

One thing to know about Latin America (I derive this from having read a book on how to conduct business in Latin America) is that the wealthy and educated tend to be more aristocratic than the American educated from money. A woman in Latin America born into a wealthy family will attend university--possibly in Europe too--and she'll speak, read, and write in two, three, or four languages. She will vacation and travel throughout Europe. Her peer in America will likely only speak English and possibly never step foot outside the USA.

The professional class in Latin America tend to be more formal too. So, it is not surprising you will find a number of their pastors dressed in suits.

A rich American business man tends to be less formal, will jump on a factory floor line and roll up his sleeves. This is unlikely to happen in Latin America. And whereas many American's with Ph.D.'s don't expect to be addressed as "Doctor" (usually that being reserved those with M.D.'s) most in Latin America expect you to address them formally as "Doctor" so and so.

 

[dayhiker]

Thanks for the additional info, SuperCloud

 

[Dave-W]

The terms "First World," "Second World," and "Third World" were created to differentiate certain countries from the communist nations.

The "Second World" were communist nations and the "First World" were the high-income nations of the capitalist democracies. It was those of the "First World" that created these terms and they placed all nations outside of the First and Second under the label "Third World."

Today sociologists view these terms as outdated since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They prefer to use the terms "high-income," "medium-income," and "low-income" nations. Basing these things off of per capita incomes.

When China declared itself the leader of the 3rd world countries in the middle 1970s, the whole system started to unravel. It then became that the US and Russia (USSR) were the first world, their allies the 2nd world and the third world were "non-aligned" countries. (aka aligned with China)

 

[ken777]

This may be strange to most people, but I would almost always rather be completely nude, especially in nature. I'm 27 and I've been somewhat of a closet nudist for the last 10 years of my life. Theres nothing sexual about it for me, it just makes me feel happy and free. I'm never naked in front of anyone who is offended by it. It's usually just my wife and close friends who aren't bothered by nudity.

My question is, do you think there's something wrong with me? Is this sinful behavior, or do you find nothing wrong with it? Thanks.

Joel

I suppose it depends on why you think "God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them."

.

 

[dayhiker]

God doesn't say He made those clothes to indicate that is was a wrong or sinful to be unclothed. The only things from the context is that we can say is that God wanted to show man covering himself wouldn't deal with guilt and so that when God kicked them out of the garden they would have protection from their new environment, thorns and all. God doesn't say, command from now on you shall not be naked. If we are to take this story as an allegory for all human history, I think we totally miss apply it. Then the allegory(God) would say that we shouldn't be making clothes of plant material but we should be waiting for God to make us clothes of animal skins. In which case I suspect we all would be naked the rest of our lives!

 

[HermanNeutics13]

Do not get this--I know it feels good when I'm alone and it's hot--but that's it! Even if I looked like Sophia Loren at her very best--nope. Soooo, did a word search--there are many, many verses these are just a few. It is not looked upon with kindness by God. In Leviticus, there are many, many verses. First thing Adam and Eve did, when they realized they were naked, was to cover up!---I don't know---I mean, there are certainly far worse things, and it is not one of the 10 commandments, but, come judgment day, and God asks me why I went contrary to these instructions----somehow, "It felt good" doesn't seem like an awfully good defense! If it had been OK with Him, He wouldn't have mentioned not doing it soooo many times, if at all. Plus, that's a part of that unique intimacy between husband and wife, and to be shared with no other. No getting around having to deal with a naked baby, there comes a time when they naturally do not want to be seen naked anymore--it's an invasion of their privacy. There is no one that I want to know that well, outside my husband.



(Gen 3:7) And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

(Gen 9:22) And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
(Gen 9:23) And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

(Exo 20:26) Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

(Exo 32:25) And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

(Lev 18:6) None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

(2Ch 28:14) So the armed men left the captives and the spoil before the princes and all the congregation.
(Isa 20:4) so shall the king of Assyria lead away the captives of Egypt, and the exiles of Ethiopia, young and old, naked and barefoot, and with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
(Isa 58:7) Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him, and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
(Hab 2:15) Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
(Rom 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
(Rev 3:17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

(Rev 16:15) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

(Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

I haven't read through the entire thread to see if these have been addressed but I will do it myself anyway.
(Gen 3:7) If you look at the context of the verse there are a few issues here. One of the big ones is shame. They were naked and felt shame before. It seems to imply it shouldn't have been shameful but now they felt it was. God then gave them garments to protect them from the elements.
(Gen 9:22) I think the issue here was the disrespect he showed his father, he should have just walked away.
(Gen 9:23) Again this is a respect thing. I always found it weird however that Noah did not get in trouble for being drunk.
(Exo 20:26) This specifically applies to the priest's dress code.
(Exo 32:25) I think you must have cited the wrong verse as I don't see that there.
(Lev 18:6) I saw something on how this one was specifically referring to sexual acts but ca't find this specific explanation. However it just seems like from the verse it is something against there will anyway.
(2Ch 28:14) I don't see the connection
(Isa 20:4) There was type of nudity meant for humiliation, largely because it was done to them against their will. The context of this verse is Isaiah going naked for 3 years himself.
(Isa 58:7) Naked because of poverty is another example f it not being by choice.
(Hab 2:15) This is about the method I think. Probably similar to the Noah situation.
(Rom 8:35) This verse actually seems to imply nakedness won't separate us.
(Rev 3:17) This is again dealing with poverty.
(Rev 16:15) I admit I will have to look closer at that one.
(Rev 3:18) Poverty vs. riches again
I can actually give verses as counter examples.
As mentioned above, Isaiah walked naked 3 years.
1 Samuel 19:24-He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"
This is an odd verse as it seems to imply prophets regularly prophesied naked.
John 21:7-7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
Jesus never scolded Peter for being naked.
2 Samuel 16:14-Wearing a linen ephod, David was dancing before the LORD with all his might,
This was a very revealing garment and David's wife actually criticized him for it but God got angry at her for doing so.

 

[Darkhorse]

Lev 18:6 and the next dozen or so verses use the idiom "uncover the nakedness of" to mean "have sexual relations with", much as we say "sleep with" today. This appears in the King James Version and several minor versions, but not the more literal translations.

Just like there's nothing wrong about sleeping with a relative if all you do is sleep (no sex), there's nothing wrong with helping a relative take their clothes off, as long as sex isn't involved.

 

[HermanNeutics13]

Lev 18:6 and the next dozen or so verses use the idiom "uncover the nakedness of" to mean "have sexual relations with", much as we say "sleep with" today. This appears in the King James Version and several minor versions, but not the more literal translations.

Just like there's nothing wrong about sleeping with a relative if all you do is sleep (no sex), there's nothing wrong with helping a relative take their clothes off, as long as sex isn't involved.

Exactly, otherwise, we couldn't be caretakers for a relative when they become invalid.

 

[HermanNeutics13]

Part of the problem is people have this idea (at least in America) that nudity =sex. That is just not true. Having been to a few nudist events I can tell you that it really is non-sexual. That is not because, as the stereotype goes, that most nudists are old and fat. In fact, I have always seen younger nudists, both male and female and it was no more sexual than a clothed environment. Biblically, the legitimate concern is to not cause your brother to stumble, so you shouldn't force it on someone who might be tempted. This is Christian liberty, if it is not prohibited in the Bible, it is allowed.

 

[Dave-W]

Part of the problem is people have this idea (at least in America) that nudity =sex.

I am sure that is part of the problem. What I see as a bigger part is the idea that God requires a one-size-fits-all observance. Since the idea of not covering up will stumble some person, then everyone in the whole world must meet that standard so that no one, even on the opposite side of the globe, will possibly stumble that sensitive person.

I do not accept that.

 

[HermanNeutics13]

I read this story but I just can't remember where, where missionaries told the tribal women they had to put shirts on yet that offended them because in their culture, if a woman was wearing a shirt it meant she was a prostitute. We can't demand subjective cultural modesty on other cultures. Just preach the gospel.

 

[Dave-W]

It is called cultural imperialism. And when combined with preaching the gospel completely ignores Paul's statement:

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

It is about fitting into the culture you are in to bring forth the gospel.

 

[HermanNeutics13]

Dave are you saying that i the US we shouldn't be nudists because it goes against the culture but in a place where it is normal we should? I certainly do think it is wrong for missionaries to try to get other cultures to dress like we do. That is total legalism.

 

[HermanNeutics13]

I think this could be an application of that verse. (1 Corinthians 9:19-21)
http://gawker.com/naked-and-unafraid-baring-witness-at-christian-nudist-1605355108

 

[Dave-W]

Dave are you saying that i the US we shouldn't be nudists because it goes against the culture but in a place where it is normal we should? I certainly do think it is wrong for missionaries to try to get other cultures to dress like we do. That is total legalism.

I do not see a problem with going around with minimal or no clothing in a culture where that is the norm. Certain Native tribes in the upper Amazon come to mind like the Kechawa or the Zoe.
I do not see that as appropriate in our culture.

One of the biggest blunders by the church was the cultural imperialism brought by missionaries to China in the 1800s. It led to the Boxer rebellion of 1899 and probably ultimately to the communist revolution of 1949. It was not so much against the doctrines of Christianity at first, but rather the spreading of European culture as "superior." But since the church seemed unable to separate the 2, the church got kicked out as well.

 

[ladyches]

I'm late to the party (and I'm fully clothed) and didn't read all the comments, but if being nude is ok, why did God clothe Adam and Eve in the garden?