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Christian Mysticism

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Brad D.

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I think the reason Mysticism needs to be given a place in Christianity is for the same reason John the Baptist needs to be given a place as much as Paul. The Desert Father's for example were greatly influenced by John in their pursuit of Christ, especially in the corruption of the world around them. But John would be rejected in most theology today. He would be an outcast a fringe character that is given no voice. Paul is given much voice and rightly So! But These forums are filled with His voice. But what does someone like John's voice say in this Sunday go to meeting in a church building. There is not a lot of room for John there. Mysticism just gives place to another voice as relevant and needed as any other. A different experience, and a relevant experience, the same goal. Christ in us the hope of glory!
 
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Brad D.

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Just wanted to say one final thing. I have been praying for the moderators and whoever is for or against this forum discussion tonight. What I really pray for is His will to be done. Whatever is best for His kingdom in this day. What I do know is His voice is so desperately needed in this day. If a forum like this gives Him another avenue in this world, to express something of Himself, in a unique way, that might otherwise be difficult to be heard as it now stands so be it. If on the other hand it's just a distraction from what is really needed then so be it also. I have nothing but love in my heart for all of you who oversee these things. I am confident you will hear the Spirit and do whatever is absolutely needed. I know you will make the right decision and I will have peace either way. Just wanted you to know you are in my prayers!

At the end of the day the Lord will do what He will do. We are just a drop in the ocean of something so much bigger than ourselves anyway. It want make Him or break Him either way.
 
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mourningdove~

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I would be for it. If you include people like Fenelon, Madame Guyon, Brother Lawrence, Saint John of the Cross, in that. These people with the help of T. Austin Sparks and Watchman Nee who are not Mystics helped put a framework of what God was doing and bringing me through in my life years ago that I did not know existed, had a name, and certainly couldn't find in modern day church's. I am not Catholic, have never even attended a Catholic Mass, but these brothers and sisters, with a sprinkling of others of a Monastic bent, have helped me more in my walk than any others. I am so thankful the Holy Spirit led me to some of these dear brothers and sisters who resonate and provide a steady voice to me even today.

I would be for it, also.
(You mention some of my favorite authors!)
 
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mourningdove~

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That doesn't really give me a clear picture.

How is this different from the Charismatic/Spirit Filled forum's focus?

It would be very different.

The SF Forum is mostly focused on spiritual gifts, ministries, debates on theology, etc.

Those of us interested in Christian Mysticism tend to generally be more focused on prayer, the interior life, inner transformation in Christ, deeper union with Christ, relationship with Him.

All focuses have potential for good ... but though we are all one in Christ, we are not all spiritually 'wired' (gifted) in the same way, or with the same focus or function within His Body ...



 
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Gregory Thompson

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It would be very different.

The SF Forum is mostly focused on spiritual gifts, ministries, debates on theology, etc.

Those of us interested in Christian Mysticism tend to generally be more focused on prayer, the interior life, inner transformation in Christ, deeper union with Christ, relationship with Him.

All focuses have potential for good ... but though we are all one in Christ, we are not all spiritually 'wired' (gifted) in the same way, or with the same focus or function within His Body ...



There definitely isn't anything like that on CF, might be a good addition. Sounds like the focus I already have.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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It would be very different.

The SF Forum is mostly focused on spiritual gifts, ministries, debates on theology, etc.

Those of us interested in Christian Mysticism tend to generally be more focused on prayer, the interior life, inner transformation in Christ, deeper union with Christ, relationship with Him.

All focuses have potential for good ... but though we are all one in Christ, we are not all spiritually 'wired' (gifted) in the same way, or with the same focus or function within His Body ...



Yes, It would be more of a quiet room for contemplation and meditation perhaps. Which is what mysticism does entail for the most part, I would think.
 
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philadelphos

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That doesn't really give me a clear picture.

How is this different from the Charismatic/Spirit Filled forum's focus?

Charismania is the opposite of orthodoxy or biblical theology, it relies on claims of divine healing, linguistic ability, visions, and have special feelings or 'encounters'. It's belief in continuationism (of the Holy Spirit's work since Acts) and typically includes a strong belief in supernatural special/divine revelation to that person exclusively. "I verb xyz, therefore Jesus xyz". Also commercialism, pay to play. -- Orthodoxy and reformed theology typically negates that as fraudulent gobbledigook. It's a fixation/idolatry of phenomenon, or 'miracles' as they claim.

Christian Mysticism is a branch of theology, somewhere in between. It's a fantastical belief that there is a special connection to God outside of the mainstream biblical narrative/thought. Divine transcendence, union with God. Perhaps hallucination induced, perhaps imagined. It's reaching a elevated or 'holy' place. Typically it relies on experiences and artefacts. Perhaps triggered by 'icons', pictures, paintings, music, chanting, prayer, fasting, self-deprivation, self-mutilation, and various monastic chores like gardening or repairing farming equipment with the bros. Anything can become a 'meditative' practice, including reading Scripture, over and over. Including, drinking tea, going for a long run, or simply working at the office. It's subjective, really. Whatever it is though there must be a divine experience.

It was popular in the Early Church, patristics, desert fathers, and continued on in Eastern theology, some in Roman Catholicism. Many were mixed up with gnosticism and Arianism which was heretical, so the Western world separated itself from anything along those lines. There are also 'mystical texts' that are non-canonical, often mixed with the above problems, at other times agreeing with canonical texts.-- Orthodoxy and reformed theology argues that this is 'delusion'. And since it's not an exact science, not quite 'academic', there's no established 'university of mystics' to support their claims. But there are many mystics within every branch of theology including Protestantism, albeit kept secret by the person, with a fringe following. It's taboo or heresy, so there's that.

If you see the Lord's Prayer as a divine sequence of words that communicates with the creator is magical, beyond human comprehension, then Scripture can be understood as mystical text.

The metaphor of 'walking with God', evident with Adam, Enoch, Moses, are personal and intimate experience unique from the majority group at the time. 'Mysticism' goes to great lengths in attempt to replicate or achieve these experiences. People have nearly starved to death.

Some famous names: Evagrius Ponticus who influenced Origen, Ignatius of Antoich, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Iraneus, ... also Martin Luther... Blaisse Pascale, John Owen... Isaac Newton (mystic/occult).

There's also ancient roots in Jewish Mysticism and Kabbalah... Which is an entire parallel reading of the bible, based on numerology, special numbers, pseudo-mathematics, real mathematics.

This is closely related to esotericism which is a full fledged 'science' and system of thought, that meets 'magic' biblically speaking. It is (was) a an ancient Eastern discipline.

Think about HOW could Daniel be interpreting dreams at Babylon. HOW God's hand could write on the wall. Joseph interpreting dreams at Egypt. Who were the Magi or 3 Wise Men who visited Christ. It is high science and special knowledge reserved for Kings of the various kingdoms of Persia and Central Asia. --Not far from Albus Dumbledore, Tolkien's world, the Red Priestesses of Game of Thrones, Dan Brown's DaVinci Code, etc.

Historically, it was for an elite class of theologians, maybe 'special classes' or clubs/societies. Nowadays, it would fall under an exclusive phd program in astrophysics, astronomy, physics, etc. The research at the Hadron Collider at Switzerland is kinda similar in that sense, where science is reaching into the supernatural world.

Somethings from the past we will never know about. There are little to no apprentices or masters in these fields for a reason. They died off for a reason. The Kingdom of Heaven operates by Christ, by faith, and not through these practices.

"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer." (Deu 18:9-11)

Blessings to all
 
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mourningdove~

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Maybe a subsection of Deeper Fellowship?

This is one good idea. :blush:

The "Christian Mysticism" (name?) forum could possibly be established and structured the same as the "Sign Gifts" forum is set up as a subform of the "Spiritual Gifts" forum, which is under the "Spiritual Growth" category. (The "Spiritual Growth" category is for Christians only.)

I think the "Sign Gifts" forum has been set up in a very wise and helpful way, so as to help keep one's experience there edifying and 'non-combative':

1. In that forum, there is a "Statement of Purpose" posted which reads:
(red emphasis/underlining mine)


"The Sign Gifts forum is a discussion forum for CF members who believe that the sign gifts of the Spirit are still active in the church today. ..."


2. And then, there is a thread where new posters to the forum need to acknowledge that they have read and agree ("Read and Agree") with the forum's "Statement of Purpose" before posting in the forum.

The CF ministry serves a wide variety of Christians. As with some other topics, some CF members may not agree and/or understand the subject of Christian Mysticism. Consequently, some of these may want to post in the "Christian Mysticism" forum so as to correct/debate with the regular posters there. While their intent to be helpful may be genuinely sincere, correction/debate of this sort could quickly become disruptive and harmful to the health of this new forum. I think a "Read and Agree" thread would do much to help ensure that forum discussions in "Christian Mysticism" remain pleasant and edifying.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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This is one good idea. :blush:

The "Christian Mysticism" (name?) forum could possibly be established and structured the same as the "Sign Gifts" forum is set up as a subform of the "Spiritual Gifts" forum, which is under the "Spiritual Growth" category. (The "Spiritual Growth" category is for Christians only.)

I think the "Sign Gifts" forum has been set up in a very wise and helpful way, so as to help keep one's experience there edifying and 'non-combative':

1. In that forum, there is a "Statement of Purpose" posted which reads:
(red emphasis/underlining mine)


"The Sign Gifts forum is a discussion forum for CF members who believe that the sign gifts of the Spirit are still active in the church today. ..."


2. And then, there is a thread where new posters to the forum need to acknowledge that they have read and agree ("Read and Agree") with the forum's "Statement of Purpose" before posting in the forum.

The CF ministry serves a wide variety of Christians. As with some other topics, some CF members may not agree and/or understand the subject of Christian Mysticism. Consequently, some of these may want to post in the "Christian Mysticism" forum so as to correct/debate with the regular posters there. While their intent to be helpful may be genuinely sincere, correction/debate of this sort could quickly become disruptive and harmful to the health of this new forum. I think a "Read and Agree" thread would do much to help ensure that forum discussions in "Christian Mysticism" remain pleasant and edifying.
The statement of purpose is what is important because the other aspects of mysticism that some refer to as charismatic have been addressed, as you say, in other forums. Yet those charismatic beliefs/rituals are also what some believe to be part and parcel of non-medieval mysticism.

The chore would be in finding the balance between medieval and modern mystics that could learn from each.

We wouldn't, nor could we, use prophetic dreams for instance, nor could there be sacramental rituals for another instance, because of the statement of purpose on deeper fellowship.

Statement of Purpose - Deeper Fellowship Statement of Purpose | Christian Forums
This forum is not the place to discuss or debate church practices, specific church leaders, interpretations of Scripture or theological topics. ..
..It's alright to discuss Scripture if it's done in the spirit of fellowship and praise and not with the intention of getting into a debate about the interpretation of Scripture or theological topics. We would like this forum to remain a place where Christian members from all denominations can find pure, simple, and uncomplicated love of our Savior and of our family in Him​

The new subforum SoP would need to have that applicable (by sign in?) It would be nice to see that the old and new are integrated into a meaningful substance that doesn't carry the shadow of denominational rituals or affiliation to any group but rather fellow searchers into the mystical path and what it means to them on the path to being in the Family of God, with it. (for instance)

That's where the statement of purpose for a new subforum needs to be drawn out by continued suggestions. Thanks for the input!
 
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FreeinChrist

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After discussion, we decided against starting a forum on Christian Mysticism at this time. It can be discussed in the various congregational forums. Also, if the discussions are in the congregational forum, other congregational members will be aware if the discussion goes outside Christianity.

We can revisit it later.
 
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