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Christian life in Denmark (and Scandinavia)

philadelphos

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Hej! Tack för ditt svar! -- Thank you for your honesty.

I think in many respects Scandinavians are admirable to outsiders, seemingly advanced, forward thinking, honest, just, kind, humane, socially just, merciful, perceptive, thoughtful and considerate, insightful and wise. Many aspects are very refreshing compared to other places. I'm not sure as much of that may just be 'cultural' legacy from hundreds of years ago, not necessarily reflecting current values. Maybe you can share more.
 
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philadelphos

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In your experience, what place does Scripture have in Sweden, in the family, day to day, and society at large? And where do Paul's words fit in? e.g. "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim 2:12)

If such passages have no effect on families and churches that would explain why churches have become political places for gender politics and family politics, instead of this:

"And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do." (Ex 18:20)

It's sad because believers are "children of light" (1 Thes 5:5) and the body of Christ is one, united without schism (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). Gender is not a battlefield. If anything each member/person is to be celebrated/rejoiced. Every person has a place.

An emasculated society seems to be the cultural norm for many. I wonder, does a man's voice hold any weight?

In the SVG debate, my views are somewhat closest to the Danish psychologist and the Swedish teacher, and their opponents come across as insufferable, radical, nasty. Maybe there's something major fuelling that fury, personal loss or sadness. I wonder if that is sensationalised for TV or a fair and accurate representation day to day?

French and Italians are very vocal so it's not uncommon to hear colourful exchanges during meals or meetings, but usually it's an honest dialogue and when people are happy or sad it's usually accurate. But in Chinese culture (most Asian cultures), controversy or discussion itself is discouraged, so often people may seem very smiley and happy at the table yet are harbouring evil thoughts, anger, bitterness, resentment, etc, while they eat.

It just makes little sense since Swedes are known to be intelligent and introverted, sensitive, kind, hospitable, and historically were the religious pioneers in Scandinavia. If anything they should be the champions for Christ.

Biblically, acceptance of "mass migrants" as asylum seekers, refugees, etc, is NOBLE, KIND, and MERCIFUL. It's loving thy neighbour as self, and it's what Israel should be doing.

At the same time, how can there be so many feminist radicals, militant neo-nazis, racists/xenophobes, etc. It doesn't add up.

Here in Aus, God, Scripture, and the Queen, got usurped/replaced by the government, and biblical values have deteriorated quite obviously since the 90s. So maybe it's similar in Sweden, also symptomatic of European stresses/anxieties over resource scarcity(?), hence the green/renewable initiatives(?). That then somehow social responsibility, leftism, and far-leftism, became a kind of movement and religion of sorts(?).
 
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Robban

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Hi there,
recieved an alert of this thread, had completely forgotten,

but I see the above post is from 23 july which is why I have to ask you to excuse my delay in reply.

I was in my boat and did not have internet.

The video you posted is not available for viewing here.

There are Christian antisemites, they are mistaken in their understanding. that is all I want to say on that front.

At one time here around advent and Christmas there were lights and stars in most windows, not so today.

The area has emptied out and now mostly muslim,

I have to say I like the muslim women for their friendliness,

and even the men are friendly.

I have never had a car so I take the bus and that is where

I have formed my opinion.

In fact when the muslims first started to come in their long gowns it made me glad, I thought at last something to point toward something higher, if you get what I mean.
 
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philadelphos

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The video you posted is not available for viewing here.

Hi Robban! I've update the links below. You might appreciate this. Dr Eitan Bar is from One For Israel Ministry. He explains from a Hebrew perspective the problems with Evangelicalism or Western Christian thinking, including a seriously covered up history of anti-semitism. Particularly rare to see in a Scandinavian church, and evangelical mega-church.

The FB link doesn't work on CF. There's an equivalent video on YT without the Norwegian translation, but I can't find it, maybe deleted.

Here's the FB link without the hyperlink: www.facebook.com/credokirken/videos/355193536420440

If that doesn't work, search Google for: "Dr. Eitan Bar credokirken", Facebook 24 Apr 2022. Description: Vi gleder oss til å feire gudstjeneste sammen idag! Vi får besøk av Dr. Eitan Bar og ser fram til å høre han forkynne.

One For Israel YT Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/ONEFORISRAEL

The same message in other videos:

The 3 Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus & Israel Evangelism Report By Eitan Bar

Eitan Bar - One For Israel - Understanding The Times 2018

Understanding the Times with Eitan Bar
 
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Robban

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Well, I just got through the first vid.

It did not sway me in any way, reminded me of politics though.

I am not a fan of politics.

Today this world is tottering on the brink of, for humanity

a catastrophe.

One of our sages meant that, Islam's purpose was to point to a One God.
Christianty's purpose was to point to the coming of the Messiah.

No more no less.

Whoever this Messiah will be there shall be no mistake,

there will be an ingathering of the exiles and world peace.

Do not know what more to say other than the last line of Psalms 4
 
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philadelphos

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"All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Rom 8:28)

Jews/Israelites is both a religion, culture, and ethnicity, but "muslim" refers only to religion and not an individual's ethnicity. A muslim person could be anything from the original descendants of Ishmael, to Turks, Chinese or Central Asians in Xinjiang, Hindus in Pakistan, etc, to a local Scandinavian. This is the trouble. Also, many 'muslim countries' actually more biblical laws and cultures than Western Christian countries or Israel. This is the irony. The West is often only 'Christian' in name, but there is no Christ or Scripture behind the scenes.

Jews should be celebrated as God's chosen, but currently God's favour has departed since Christ and the following destruction of the Temple/Jerusalem. Then when the Jewish diaspora is combined with the inhospitableness of local goyim it's a recipe for disaster.

Many churches believe in the OT, Tanak and Torah, but there's a disconnect when it comes to it's relevance and application since we follow Christ and are a chosen by the Holy Spirit, less Moses and from the Exodus. We are not genetically born of 'Israel' but spiritually born from God, mentally/ideologically. But there is clearly a lot of error and false teaching in our churches also. In theology it's called 'supercessionism' or 'replacement theology'. This IMO is the main theological error, and reason for anti-semitism. Also in general Christians do acknowledge and respect Jewishness in Christ, the apostles, and everything Judaic or Hebraic in Scripture, however not as 'Jewish' necessarily but more as Davidic or Abrahamic, as the basis of the kingdom and salvation.

e.g. Romans 4, "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all." (Rom 4:16)

The other confusion is that because during Christ's life Jerusalem's corruption was at its peak, with the main groups in Jerusalem, the High Priests, Sadducees, pharisees, all 3 groups are perceived as corrupt. The 'Pharisees' especially are seen as villains who "killed Christ". Nowadays it's not uncomoon for Christians to use the word 'pharisee' as a passive-aggressive insult. But many fail to realise that modern Christian churches are based on 'reformed Judaism' as well Christ and New Covenant concepts, following the system set by the pharisees after the temple was destroyed. i.e. Christians ARE pharisees more or less. Another irony.

If Swedes are as you say, I'm not sure if its limited to certain geographics or demographics, but it's sad and misguided. Also it would seem to be a symptomatic of something bigger.

One of my colleagues came from Sweden and he has some very entitled and bigoted ideas. One time he was talking about "healthcare" and then related it to "Christ", as if implying Christ is healthcare. It's another topic altogether, but there a many people who are problematically addicted to numerous pharmaceutical products and die in hospitals. Yet Scandinavians rely on and trust the state in almost every aspect of life. This is quite problematic.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. ...Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the Lord his God:" (Ps 146:3-5)

Honouring the monarchy and government is commanded (Mt 22), so this right, but it seems the state is either too big or the people are too small, and there's a disconnect between God and his people.

For instance, you take the bus, which is the norm and cultural (please correct me if mistaken), and I like that option too, but not every place can be reached by public transport and not most efficiently either if there are multiple back and forth trips in a day. So a car or truck is the most popular preference worldwide, irrespective of the fossil-fuel debate this is the norm. But the Norwegian drivers license costs 30,000 NOK, or $3,675 which for some that is a years worth of energy bills and a large portion of their living wage. So I realise there are reasons for that but the bottom line doesn't seem just, fair, equitable or accessible to all, but it makes driving exclusive to the rich only and forces the people to be reliant on state services. Without freedom to choose what difference is that from becoming herded cattle. I see this pattern in many areas. The irony and hypocrisy is that there are such beautiful laws like Allemannsretten ("everyman's right") where everyone has the right/freedom to roam without being accused of 'trespass'. What happened to that?
 
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philadelphos

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Whoever this Messiah will be there shall be no mistake,

I see. Well then. Kindly, I'll present here some quotes and perhaps you can tell me your interpretation, who you think these quotes refer to, and where they were written?

Quote 1:

Quote 2:

Quote 3:
3 said:
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Quote 4:
4 said:
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Do not know what more to say other than the last line of Psalms 4

Yes, I agree.

In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for Thou, LORD, makest me dwell alone in safety.
בְּשָׁלוֹם יַחְדָּו, אֶשְׁכְּבָה וְאִישָׁן: כִּי-אַתָּה יְהוָה לְבָדָד; לָבֶטַח, תּוֹשִׁיבֵנִי.

Quote 5:

Christ said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Mt 11:28-30)

Islam's purpose was to point to a One God.
Christianty's purpose was to point to the coming of the Messiah.

No more no less.

God is one, that is true. But who do you think God was speaking to in Bereshit, Genesis 1? "And God said, Let us (נַֽעֲשֶׂה na'asá) make man in our image" (Gen 1:26) Because the verb na'asá נַֽעֲשֶׂה is first person common plural.

This is not new.

Quote 6:

Quote 7:

grace and peace, Shabbat shalom!
 
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Robban

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Real quick, time is short, some mean God was talking to angels some mean the righteous, whoever it was He got no answer.

Therefore v 27, So He made man in His pwn image.........

Have to leave, must say, you make long posts.
 
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philadelphos

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Real quick, time is short, some mean God was talking to angels some mean the righteous, whoever it was He got no answer.

Therefore v 27, So He made man in His pwn image.........

Have to leave, must say, you make long posts.

Have you not read Isaiah? Isa 9:6-7, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
 
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Robban

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Yes, is a text that is used by Christains to say,

"Look, it says so here clearly."

But not if one reads Rashi's commentry on it.

I read his commentry on it this evening and was very surprised that he mentioned Chrisians, and that they can be refuted over their claim.

Also supplying explanations.

But I do not take that path, I try to avoid arguments.

Winning a debate or argument, what can it be likened to?

Someone who trains and trains to climb Mt Everest,

After much struggling, scrapes and bruises he reaches the top.

Hooray, but what is there at the top of the highest mountain?

Nothing.
 
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KJ91

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Few people in Scandinavia are christians. On paper many are, but not many are actually belivers.

Culture is very liberal and multicultural. I would say people in Scandinavia is less social
than other places in the world.
 
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philadelphos

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"I try to avoid arguments" yet hypocritically lays down a contentious argument...

Reductio ad absurdum is an argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable. Which is also a classic argumentation fallacy because it merely assumes that an argument is absurd, and that it can be dismissed without analysis or providing a counter-argument.

i.e. "I read Rashi's commentary (on Isaiah) this evening so Christians can be (completely) refuted over their claim(s)." IOW, it's saying Rashi is the supreme authority, which is an error and hypocrisy. I've read some of Rashi and Rambam and others, and I'm pretty sure neither wrote Tanakh.

To clarify, no argument was even made on my behalf. I said, "Kindly, I'll present here some quotes and perhaps you can tell me your interpretation, who you think these quotes refer to, and where they were written?" -- All open questions. No argument.

Did you not read those? Quote 1-7.

There are only 7 quotes. Not much. I have them in Hebrew WLC if you wish. I suggest reading those before shooting from the hip. And it's sukkot, there's time.

Shalom! Chag Sameach!
 
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philadelphos

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Few people in Scandinavia are christians. On paper many are, but not many are actually belivers.

Culture is very liberal and multicultural. I would say people in Scandinavia is less social
than other places in the world.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'm sensing that. In your part(/s) of Sweden, can you elaborate on "culture is very liberal and multicultural" and how many "actual believers" there are in your area? Thanks. Blessings
 
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KJ91

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Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'm sensing that. In your part(/s) of Sweden, can you elaborate on "culture is very liberal and multicultural" and how many "actual believers" there are in your area? Thanks. Blessings

I live in Malmö. Lots of problem with criminality.

With liberal i mean its very open society. Secularism. Femnism and LGBT is very strong.

Multicultural = many non-swedes. Lots of arabs, asians, blacks etc. Nothing wrong with that.

There is few christians here. Most are atheists or muslims.
 
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philadelphos

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Truth speech in conflict with hate speech and hate crime.

This was in 2014, https://globalfreedomofexpression.c...ads/2016/03/BANGSTAD_HATE_SPEECH_COLUMBIA.pdf

And May 2022, "If you dare to state the truth that men cannot be lesbians, you could end up in jail in Norway. Norway has a “gender identity” law which means anyone who adheres to biological reality as fact can be charged for committing a “hate crime”." Truth speech prosecuted as hate speech in Norway

But Scripture says, "Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:" (Zech 8:16) "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another." (Eph 4:25) Because, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Ex 20:16)
 
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philadelphos

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In 2003, Norway became the first country to introduce a quota of at least 40 per cent women on the boards of listed companies. Does imposing women's quotas for corporate boards pay off?

Women must make up at least 40 percent of the boards of publicly traded companies. Companies that fail to comply face a draconian penalty: They can be dissolved. Taking Stock of Pioneering Law: Have Gender Quotas Really Helped Norwegian Women?

Critics claim that many positions of responsibility are evidence of the excesses of state-sponsored feminism. They refer to women who are members of the boards of multiple companies as "gullskjørtene," or "golden skirts.”

That was 20 years ago, I wonder how things are now. The policy is obviously unfavourable to men and to meritocracy and fairness, but it ironically handicaps women also. What message does that send to young people. The reason for gender roles and gender order is the natural order, from Eden.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (1 Tim 2:12-15)
 
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