Christian life in Denmark (and Scandinavia)

philadelphos

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A college/university has unofficially offered me a place in a specialist course. Any advice about Christian life in Denmark (and Scandinavia on the whole) would be helpful. About church life, views, work life, culture. What it is that concerns people, their mentality. And being close relations to the UK, EU, and USA, what is that makes some people stay and other leave the country/region. Shalom.
 
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Robban

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A college/university has unofficially offered me a place in specialty course. Any advice about Christian life in Denmark (and Scandinavia on the whole) would be helpful. About church life, views, work life, culture. What it is that concerns people, their mentality. And being close relations to the UK, EU, and USA, what is that makes some people stay and other leave the country/region. Shalom.

Sweden and Norway generally speaking it is much traditions.

Not a common subject of conversation, regarded as a private matter, generally.

As it it says somewhere,
"Each one kept it in their heart,"

All Christian holidays are fully paid public holidays.
 
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philadelphos

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Sweden and Norway generally speaking it is much traditions.

Not a common subject of conversation, regarded as a private matter, generally.

As it it says somewhere,
"Each one kept it in their heart,"

All Christian holidays are fully paid public holidays.

Shalom! Oh, you're from Sweden? Are you from the WW2 generation? I read that 99% of Denmark's Jewish population survived the Holocaust. Which is amazing, I think.

Can you elaborate on "traditions"?

Is that in reference to religious rituals e.g. church attendance, or maybe something specific to the denominations there, or did you mean private rituals, like reading the Bible privately as some do in emphasising 'quiet time' and for prayer etc.

"Not a common subject of conversation, regarded as a private matter, generally." By that did you mean it's private because Swedes are non-confrontational, socially awkward, introverted, etc, hence "discussion" is not done publicly for these reasons, or is there particular prohibition? If it's public vs in private situation, what about at church, school, work, home, etc? Or is it 'taboo' and socially unacceptable altogether?

Do tell more about "Christian holidays". Are you messianic too? How do people do Shabbat and Pesach over there?
 
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Robban

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Shalom! Oh, you're from Sweden? Are you from the WW2 generation? I read that 99% of Denmark's Jewish population survived the Holocaust. Which is amazing, I think.

Can you elaborate on "traditions"?

Is that in reference to religious rituals e.g. church attendance, or maybe something specific to the denominations there, or did you mean private rituals, like reading the Bible privately as some do in emphasising 'quiet time' and for prayer etc.

"Not a common subject of conversation, regarded as a private matter, generally." By that did you mean it's private because Swedes are non-confrontational, socially awkward, introverted, etc, hence "discussion" is not done publicly for these reasons, or is there particular prohibition? If it's public vs in private situation, what about at church, school, work, home, etc? Or is it 'taboo' and socially unacceptable altogether?

Do tell more about "Christian holidays". Are you messianic too? How do people do Shabbat and Pesach over there?

Tradition I would say is something that is repeated year after year.

The word "Church" does not exist in the Swedish translation of NT.

The word used is "Församling" from the Greek ekklesia.

More easier I think would be to refer it to "Flock"

So wherever one lives they belong to a församling or flock, if you like.

So for many, having one sheep of the flock preaching to another sheep of the flock

is not so popular.
My observations.

It is not prohibited in any way but is not the way of life,

Christian holidays, the usual, including Acsension day.

In various ways they are celebrated, getting time off from work fully paid is a plus of course.
As is well known according to Christian tradition Sunday is the day of rest,

I do not have TV but I know before they had Sunday Service televised, probably still do.
Obviously there is tons more to tell,

But generally speaking.
 
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philadelphos

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The word "Church" does not exist in the Swedish translation of NT.

The word used is "Församling" from the Greek ekklesia.

More easier I think would be to refer it to "Flock"

So wherever one lives they belong to a församling or flock, if you like.

So for many, having one sheep of the flock preaching to another sheep of the flock

is not so popular.
My observations.

It is not prohibited in any way but is not the way of life,

How insightful. Thank you.

"Church" is from Kirk, from Greek kyriakon (doma) Older Presbyterian groups in Scotland are called "Kirk" or "The Kirk". e.g. The Free Kirk, for The Free Church (of Scotland). Many retain the word "Kirk" in various names or events such as "Kirk Session", literally the "church's (gathering of elders) seated". Most will simply call it "session" or "(the elders are) in session". As in "en ekklesia". But this tends to result in a disproportionate emphasis on historic buildings, for repair, renovation, etc, and the supremacy of elders almost regardless of teaching, people will be ardently loyal. Missing the point entirely.

Better teachers will preach against the error, taking example from Jeremiah 7:4,

"Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt" (Jer 7:4-6)

Which the Scandinavian view/culture/belief/practice, seems to genuinely (for the most part) have understood as evident in their practices: e.g. social reforms for the people that are numerous and constantly updating (positively).

Then I suppose looking at talking/approaching/communication/teaching from that context (error > correction), then it makes sense how the Scandinavian view that if everyone had kept the law and followed the rules then there would be no error and no problems, generally speaking. And the implicit lack of necessity or hypocrisy from external expressed communication.

Hence the aloof keeping to oneself culture I suppose. To self-regulate, self-correct, and to look inward for answers (?). A culture of self-examination, self-reflection, etc.

Which begs a question about self-regulation, and how it is the flock communicates, if not by natural order:

Parents > children
elders > congregation
Moses > elders
God > Moses
Christ > his sheep
Paul > the Gentiles
Peter > the Jews
Yet united as one

I've heard (immigrant) parents find it bizarre that Scandi children appear to have no respect for elders, talking/behaving almost without honour. Which I noticed with my (originally Polish) Swedish colleague. His son (a teenager, raised in Sweden) came to work a few times and would cheekily mock, belittle, criticise his dad. Although he had a valid point the communication method is frowned upon in Australian (and British) culture. The dad's response was interesting also. Instead of talking down to him as a child, he would tell a blunt truth (implying consequence for actions), giving a chance for him to choose for himself and learn the natural way or hard way. Whereas Australians tend to be dictatorial: Do it or else.

About ekklesia, there's quite a bit to it so I'm not sure which aspects Sweden has or hasn't embraced. I'll reference Thayers and let you see, G1577 - ekklēsia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

From the outside it seems the Scandi view has emphasised the "assembly" and "gathering" aspect, as seen in social events where everyone in the group is supposed to attend. In a homogenous but also in a non-optional and compulsory way. Say, compared to individualistic societies where everyone does their own random thing, anywhere anytime. There's a stricter sense of uniformity, sameness, or 'equality'. That the 'collective' identity is stronger and more important than the 'individual', doing things for the greater good per se. Instead of vice versa, for an individual (or minority) to do things at the expense of others, which happens to major problem in other societies.

Is there more to it than this?

I read somewhere that "evangelical" churches have been growing popular. I didn't think much of it, but given which would seem odd. How would you explain that? And for "traditional" groups, immigrants, or visitors like myself, is there a place in society then for such people? What about then for hallacha, haftorah, amidah, as oral tradition (assuming you're Jewish), public reading Torah in synagogue. Similar also for Presbyterian liturgy and psalmody. Are these seen or treated as socially unacceptable?
 
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Robban

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How insightful. Thank you.



"Church" is from Kirk, from Greek kyriakon (doma) Older Presbyterian groups in Scotland are called "Kirk" or "The Kirk". e.g. The Free Kirk, for The Free Church (of Scotland). Many retain the word "Kirk" in various names or events such as "Kirk Session", literally the "church's (gathering of elders) seated". Most will simply call it "session" or "(the elders are) in session". As in "en ekklesia". But this tends to result in a disproportionate emphasis on historic buildings, for repair, renovation, etc, and the supremacy of elders almost regardless of teaching, people will be ardently loyal. Missing the point entirely.

Better teachers will preach against the error, taking example from Jeremiah 7:4,

"Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt" (Jer 7:4-6)

Which the Scandinavian view/culture/belief/practice, seems to genuinely (for the most part) have understood as evident in their practices: e.g. social reforms for the people that are numerous and constantly updating (positively).

Then I suppose looking at talking/approaching/communication/teaching from that context (error > correction), then it makes sense how the Scandinavian view that if everyone had kept the law and followed the rules then there would be no error and no problems, generally speaking. And the implicit lack of necessity or hypocrisy from external expressed communication.

Hence the aloof keeping to oneself culture I suppose. To self-regulate, self-correct, and to look inward for answers (?). A culture of self-examination, self-reflection, etc.

Which begs a question about self-regulation, and how it is the flock communicates, if not by natural order:

Parents > children
elders > congregation
Moses > elders
God > Moses
Christ > his sheep
Paul > the Gentiles
Peter > the Jews
Yet united as one

I've heard (immigrant) parents find it bizarre that Scandi children appear to have no respect for elders, talking/behaving almost without honour. Which I noticed with my (originally Polish) Swedish colleague. His son (a teenager, raised in Sweden) came to work a few times and would cheekily mock, belittle, criticise his dad. Although he had a valid point the communication method is frowned upon in Australian (and British) culture. The dad's response was interesting also. Instead of talking down to him as a child, he would tell a blunt truth (implying consequence for actions), giving a chance for him to choose for himself and learn the natural way or hard way. Whereas Australians tend to be dictatorial: Do it or else.

About ekklesia, there's quite a bit to it so I'm not sure which aspects Sweden has or hasn't embraced. I'll reference Thayers and let you see, G1577 - ekklēsia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

From the outside it seems the Scandi view has emphasised the "assembly" and "gathering" aspect, as seen in social events where everyone in the group is supposed to attend. In a homogenous but also in a non-optional and compulsory way. Say, compared to individualistic societies where everyone does their own random thing, anywhere anytime. There's a stricter sense of uniformity, sameness, or 'equality'. That the 'collective' identity is stronger and more important than the 'individual', doing things for the greater good per se. Instead of vice versa, for an individual (or minority) to do things at the expense of others, which happens to major problem in other societies.

Is there more to it than this?

I read somewhere that "evangelical" churches have been growing popular. I didn't think much of it, but given which would seem odd. How would you explain that? And for "traditional" groups, immigrants, or visitors like myself, is there a place in society then for such people? What about then for hallacha, haftorah, amidah, as oral tradition (assuming you're Jewish), public reading Torah in synagogue. Similar also for Presbyterian liturgy and psalmody. Are these seen or treated as socially unacceptable?

Well, Church/Kyrka is used commonly today as meaning,
Godservice room,
Total of all Christians.
However, it does not exist in the text of the NT,

for example it does not say "Letter to the seven churches/kyrkorna"

in the book of Revelation.

It says "Letter to the seven assemblies/församlingar"

There was no special place of gathering,
they gathered in Jerusalems Temple (Acts 5:21)
in homes (Acts 2:46) or a rented place (Acts 19:9).

How it later developed there is an explaination to but it is more or less,
one thing led to another and landed where it is today.

I really cannot say about "Evangelical Churches" for I do not know what they are.

As for children, well according to the signs they are supposed have no respect for elders, but people have been saying that for a long, long time.


As for public reading of Torah, there are not a shul on every corner,

far far from it.
Possibly in Stockhom, Göteborg or Malmö.
One is not isolated however, not with internet.

As for immigrants I would suspect they would find some source to satisfy their spiritual needs.

I dont' know if I have answered so well but hope you may be able to make something of it.
 
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philadelphos

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I really cannot say about "Evangelical Churches" for I do not know what they are.

Euangelion in Greek is this what traditionally referred to as "The Good News (of the Gospel of Jesus Christ". G2098 - euangelion - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

This is a new covenant view, from Christ's teaching to his Disciples/Apostles to synagogues (shul) and throughout Israel, in Galilee, Judea, Perea and Samaria. Later through Paul (Saul, Shaul) extending this message into Syria, Asia Minor, Greece, and Italy. Based on the Mosaic covenant but Isaiah the prophecy is for "all nations" (goyim) so Gentile believers have taken this upon themselves to accelerate the spread of this by visiting various remote countries and islands in the world.

"Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (מְבַשֵּׂר טוֹב מַשְׁמִיעַ יְשׁוּעָה basar tob sama yeshua), that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! ... The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. ... So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider." (Isa 52:6-7, 10, 15)

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel (euangelion) of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." (Matthew 4:23 or Mattityahu) And: "Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel (euangelion) is preached." (Luke 7:22 or Loukas)

Fast forward to the 1700s, "The First Great Awakening" (or Great Awakening) or the Evangelical Revival, spread like wildfire through England and US (English colonies). Distribution of Bibles in particular reaching China. With John Wesley (Weslyanism) and George Whitefield are central figures in this era. There was a sudden zeal for God's word, and even until today there people in most Western churches (usually a handful in the congregation) who dedicate their lives to reaching remote places for the sake of telling them about Jesus Christ, giving them a Bible, and usually helping their local needs somehow. Typically, education, healthcare, infrastructure. And congregation members will later visit these places in waves (maybe annually) to help encourage their faith and help with whatever projects are going on.

In the n the US, UK, AU it became the "evangelical" movement or "evangelicalism". Mostly it's the experience for Western people from the 60s until 90s. Billy Graham "Crusades" began in 1947.

Which looks like this:

PBS,
Gordon Conwell,

Nowadays, the movement is enormous and commercial, held in "mega churches", and the teaching is effectively pop culture meets new age ideology, with diluted to non-existent doctrine, little to no exegesis of Scripture. It's a kind of free grandstand "event" for the whole family. And if a university, college, or maybe workplace (rare) does "church" or "chapel" or "worship", they will hold a miniature version of this. Often teaching hyper-moralism in conjunction with "what Jesus says". I don't agree with it, but for most people this is what "going to church" and being "Christian" means, to the vast majority anyway.

So right now, "evangelicalism" to the younger generation usually means "HEY! Have you heard of the Good news of Jesus? Are you born again? Would you like to come to church on Sunday? (proceeds to hand out colourful pamphlet)". But it can also mean exactly Scripture says it means. Depends on context.

Like this: 'Exvangelicals': why more religious people are rejecting the evangelical label
 
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Robban

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Euangelion in Greek is this what traditionally referred to as "The Good News (of the Gospel of Jesus Christ". G2098 - euangelion - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

This is a new covenant view, from Christ's teaching to his Disciples/Apostles to synagogues (shul) and throughout Israel, in Galilee, Judea, Perea and Samaria. Later through Paul (Saul, Shaul) extending this message into Syria, Asia Minor, Greece, and Italy. Based on the Mosaic covenant but Isaiah the prophecy is for "all nations" (goyim) so Gentile believers have taken this upon themselves to accelerate the spread of this by visiting various remote countries and islands in the world.

"Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (מְבַשֵּׂר טוֹב מַשְׁמִיעַ יְשׁוּעָה basar tob sama yeshua), that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! ... The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. ... So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider." (Isa 52:6-7, 10, 15)

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel (euangelion) of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." (Matthew 4:23 or Mattityahu) And: "Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel (euangelion) is preached." (Luke 7:22 or Loukas)

Fast forward to the 1700s, "The First Great Awakening" (or Great Awakening) or the Evangelical Revival, spread like wildfire through England and US (English colonies). Distribution of Bibles in particular reaching China. With John Wesley (Weslyanism) and George Whitefield are central figures in this era. There was a sudden zeal for God's word, and even until today there people in most Western churches (usually a handful in the congregation) who dedicate their lives to reaching remote places for the sake of telling them about Jesus Christ, giving them a Bible, and usually helping their local needs somehow. Typically, education, healthcare, infrastructure. And congregation members will later visit these places in waves (maybe annually) to help encourage their faith and help with whatever projects are going on.

In the n the US, UK, AU it became the "evangelical" movement or "evangelicalism". Mostly it's the experience for Western people from the 60s until 90s. Billy Graham "Crusades" began in 1947.

Which looks like this:

PBS,
Gordon Conwell,

Nowadays, the movement is enormous and commercial, held in "mega churches", and the teaching is effectively pop culture meets new age ideology, with diluted to non-existent doctrine, little to no exegesis of Scripture. It's a kind of free grandstand "event" for the whole family. And if a university, college, or maybe workplace (rare) does "church" or "chapel" or "worship", they will hold a miniature version of this. Often teaching hyper-moralism in conjunction with "what Jesus says". I don't agree with it, but for most people this is what "going to church" and being "Christian" means, to the vast majority anyway.

So right now, "evangelicalism" to the younger generation usually means "HEY! Have you heard of the Good news of Jesus? Are you born again? Would you like to come to church on Sunday? (proceeds to hand out colourful pamphlet)". But it can also mean exactly Scripture says it means. Depends on context.

Like this: 'Exvangelicals': why more religious people are rejecting the evangelical label

Thank you for your reply.

At the beginning of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John in the NT I have,

the title for each of these reads,


The Evangelium according to Mathew,Mark,Luke and John.

So it may not be so surprising that it becomes confusing,

In fact it can seem to be one big mess.

One reason people keep it under their hat, most often it leads to arguments

and worse.
 
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philadelphos

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One reason people keep it under their hat, most often it leads to arguments and worse.

Avoidance, I'm noticing is a common theme. In Scandi culture there seems to be desire for 'normality', with "normal" being the status quo: normal person, normal marriage, normal family, normal job, and somehow it all adds up to being a good country. Except that illusion also entails a pack of lies or hypocrisies, in denial of reality and life's extremities.

Please correct me if mistake, but I feel that day to day communication is an indicator for deeper matters, spiritual life, complex social issues. Perhaps there are more 'passive' but from the pov in the 'West' including the 'Evangelical' point of view Scandis would seem aloof, perhaps also disengaged, resistant, or even lazy or unwilling. Some would say rude.

Apparently Stockholm is vastly different to the rest of Sweden, so mmv. But I've heard that Stockholm (and perhaps Copenhagen) has really inefficient customer service, staff are unwilling to help, frequently claiming it's "not their job". A general unwillingness to serve, emphasising/protesting instead for "quality of life" and "work life balance". Which makes sense, re family time, leisure time, etc. But the legalistic inflexibility of working to the minute, for an outsider, is heartless. It'd interpreted as gross irresponsibility or negligence. Like Cain saying "Am I my brother's keeper?" --- For all the good things, I'm sure there's those who are deeply moral, kind, thoughtful, wise, dutiful and responsible. But there's quite a few rumours of these negative aspects floating about.

This sense of 'going above and beyond the call of duty' for Brits, Americans, and Australians, is practically a norm. Implied, expect, and sometimes demanded. There are ofc feet draggers who pull faces, but many are sincerely cheerful, enthusiastic, and proactive people. Serving other is a delight. And getting paid to do so. And our communication style here tends to be direct, confrontation, aggressive, even coercive.-- This potential culture I wonder about.

And technicalities like this:

"On paper, current welfare policies live up to the principle of providing for the social welfare of all; however, in practice, the policies do not amount to a substantive welfare system. ...Despite the municipality’s efforts to promote equality, differences in citizens’ access to services precludes, de facto, true equality of opportunity" The Danish Illusion: The Gap Between Principle and Practice in the Danish Welfare System - Humanity in Action

That Scandis promise one thing (a splendid ideal), but in practice there are obstacles, inefficiencies, exemptions, that deny the said thing promised from eventuating.

Claims say Denmark is the "happiest country" yet the divorce rate is high, depression, loneliness, suicide, same-sex marriage and unnatural gender imbalances (frustrated/effeminate/emasculated men), families are increasingly under stress and in poverty, state welfare encourages breaking of families (for welfare payment), and children are "happy" but many dishonour parents, and there's an underbelly of vice that feels overlooked. All cultures will have problems, but I wonder how these issues, social issues, are discussed or practiced differently in Christian (and or Jewish) communities having God's word... Whether these issues plague Christians as well as non-Christians. And how it is God's flock is doing over there.
 
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Robban

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Avoidance, I'm noticing is a common theme. In Scandi culture there seems to be desire for 'normality', with "normal" being the status quo: normal person, normal marriage, normal family, normal job, and somehow it all adds up to being a good country. Except that illusion also entails a pack of lies or hypocrisies, in denial of reality and life's extremities.

Please correct me if mistake, but I feel that day to day communication is an indicator for deeper matters, spiritual life, complex social issues. Perhaps there are more 'passive' but from the pov in the 'West' including the 'Evangelical' point of view Scandis would seem aloof, perhaps also disengaged, resistant, or even lazy or unwilling. Some would say rude.

Apparently Stockholm is vastly different to the rest of Sweden, so mmv. But I've heard that Stockholm (and perhaps Copenhagen) has really inefficient customer service, staff are unwilling to help, frequently claiming it's "not their job". A general unwillingness to serve, emphasising/protesting instead for "quality of life" and "work life balance". Which makes sense, re family time, leisure time, etc. But the legalistic inflexibility of working to the minute, for an outsider, is heartless. It'd interpreted as gross irresponsibility or negligence. Like Cain saying "Am I my brother's keeper?" --- For all the good things, I'm sure there's those who are deeply moral, kind, thoughtful, wise, dutiful and responsible. But there's quite a few rumours of these negative aspects floating about.

This sense of 'going above and beyond the call of duty' for Brits, Americans, and Australians, is practically a norm. Implied, expect, and sometimes demanded. There are ofc feet draggers who pull faces, but many are sincerely cheerful, enthusiastic, and proactive people. Serving other is a delight. And getting paid to do so. And our communication style here tends to be direct, confrontation, aggressive, even coercive.-- This potential culture I wonder about.

And technicalities like this:

"On paper, current welfare policies live up to the principle of providing for the social welfare of all; however, in practice, the policies do not amount to a substantive welfare system. ...Despite the municipality’s efforts to promote equality, differences in citizens’ access to services precludes, de facto, true equality of opportunity" The Danish Illusion: The Gap Between Principle and Practice in the Danish Welfare System - Humanity in Action

That Scandis promise one thing (a splendid ideal), but in practice there are obstacles, inefficiencies, exemptions, that deny the said thing promised from eventuating.

Claims say Denmark is the "happiest country" yet the divorce rate is high, depression, loneliness, suicide, same-sex marriage and unnatural gender imbalances (frustrated/effeminate/emasculated men), families are increasingly under stress and in poverty, state welfare encourages breaking of families (for welfare payment), and children are "happy" but many dishonour parents, and there's an underbelly of vice that feels overlooked. All cultures will have problems, but I wonder how these issues, social issues, are discussed or practiced differently in Christian (and or Jewish) communities having God's word... Whether these issues plague Christians as well as non-Christians. And how it is God's flock is doing over there.

Well, times change, today is not like yesterday,

there is not much that resembles say 10, 20 30 or more years ago

it grieves me to see it happening,

but best I have found is to stay lokal.

To see what have you in your hand, and use it best you can.
 
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philadelphos

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Well, times change, today is not like yesterday,

there is not much that resembles say 10, 20 30 or more years ago

it grieves me to see it happening,

but best I have found is to stay lokal.

To see what have you in your hand, and use it best you can.

God's people are chosen to be separate, holy, and fit for his purpose. All things of the past point to a future kingdom, a new creation, restored kingdoms on earth, and a new Jerusalem. To hope.

When countries claim (signal) to be a utopia it conflicts with this, misleading those who trust completely in government and the public narrative, when this fallen world is full of thorns and thistles. This is the paradox/hypocrisy I sense in Scandinavian ideology. -- I'm trying to take it with a grain of salt.

Russia and USA are vying for use of Greenland for military positioning, so if the Ukraine conflict escalates there may be a repeat of WW2 similar to how Hitler invaded Denmark and Norway. Same for Napoleon conquering Europe. Perhaps US influence in the region is already indicating this, hence drastic change in recent decades.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17)

"For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth. ... But I will hope continually, and will yet praise thee more and more." (Psalm 71:5, 14)
 
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philadelphos

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Is it common for people to join Velforening or Vellenes Fellesorganisasjon? This is quite remarkable, involving with the community and serving others in a practical way. This is critical I feel. We lack this concept, philosophically and practically, so there's constant divide between those who govern and those being governed.

Velforening – Wikipedia

But ideologically there seems to be a clash with expats/foreigners, perhaps with an entitled or English/American supremacist perspective, and feel they are socially unwelcome or discriminated against.

"Scandinavians are described as much closed off and even not emotional as other ethnicities. They usually do not engage in conversations amongst strangers and have very little interactions in everyday settings such as supermarkets, service providing places and transportation."
 
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philadelphos

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Päivi Räsänen case, a criminal trial for posting a Bible tweet, June 2019-2022. Re contradiction between the Bible and her church support for the Helsinki Pride event.


Finnish MP facing jail after tweeting Bible verse says case a test of religious freedom

Noticing how she's not grieved or defeated, but rather commiserating, sympathetic, and optimistically "trying to wake up those who are sleeping...because it will be very dangerous if Christians no longer trust the Bible... (and sharing the Gospel to police interviewers/interrogators) about the Gospel, th value of human beings, that all people are created as the image of God, and that's why they all are valuable".

  • accusation that the Bible is "Mein Kampf"
  • threat to remove the Bible from public libraries
  • issue of freedom of speech
  • issue of freedom of religion
  • polarised views
 
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Homeowner

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Noticing how she's not grieved or defeated, but rather commiserating, sympathetic, and optimistically "trying to wake up those who are sleeping...because it will be very dangerous if Christians no longer trust the Bible... about the value of human beings, that all people are created as the image of God, and that's why they all are valuable".

She was acquited. Worst she ever faced were some fines. There was plethora of threads about it on these forums where it looked like they were dragging her to a bonfire. Feel free to dig those up if you feel this is significant in any way.

The World Press Freedom Index gives Finland 2nd place. For comparison Australia gets the 25th.

Don't let this case color your perception too much. It was highly unusual and totally unnecessary case to start with.
 
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philadelphos

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She was acquited. Worst she ever faced were some fines. There was plethora of threads about it on these forums where it looked like they were dragging her to a bonfire. Feel free to dig those up if you feel this is significant in any way.

The World Press Freedom Index gives Finland 2nd place. For comparison Australia gets the 25th.

Don't let this case color your perception too much. It was highly unusual and totally unnecessary case to start with.

Thanks for that. It's amazing that God uses all things for his glory. Like Paul in Philippi, Paivi was invited to explain/elaborate Scripture to the police, for the record.

Finnish MP wins on all charges in major free speech trial
 
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philadelphos

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Hoping someone with insight will chime in. Wondering how accurate the arguments/views here reflect actual society. I appreciate the arguments for going with the natural order. I'm also hearing echoes from Kant and Kierkergaard which is refreshing although uncommon round here.

 
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philadelphos

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Dr. Eitan Bar's speech in Norway at Credokirken, with Norwegian translation.

Facebook video:
Credokirken - Velkommen til gudstjeneste Credokirken! | Facebook | By Credokirken | Vi gleder oss til å feire gudstjeneste sammen idag! Vi får besøk av Dr. Eitan Bar og ser fram til å høre han forkynne.

English only edit:

@Robban. Credokirken is apparently an evangelical megachurch in Bergen, formerly Levende Ord Bibelsenter. However this message is rather atypical for evangelicalism. About Yeshua, knowledge and belief in the Messiah in Israel, with explanations about rabbinical/pharisaic history, church history and the problem of anti-semitism in the early church to Luther to the Holocaust, and the confusion/hypocrisy of all such conflicts within Christendom. It would be completely opposite to my earlier explanation/criticism about evangelicalism in the West. Here, instead of hyper-spiritualism and charismatic self-aggrandisement there's a truthful testimony about a man's life, his experience, intentions and work, and his account of witnessing God's work in Israel. -- Ordinarily I'd ignore a megachurch but this may be different. I was in Bergen I'd likely visit.
 
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dufrianord

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A college/university has unofficially offered me a place in a specialist course. Any advice about Christian life in Denmark (and Scandinavia on the whole) would be helpful. About church life, views, work life, culture. What it is that concerns people, their mentality. And being close relations to the UK, EU, and USA, what is that makes some people stay and other leave the country/region. Shalom.

Hej!
I'm from northern Sweden and Gen Z, and this put a smile on my lips, Academia in Denmark is not the typical place I would think of Christians.
Sadly, Scandinavia has gone from a very faithful people to one of the most godless in the world, and I love the people here but we need God.

I recommend to stay out of the Catholic Church, it's rather common down in Denmark but we had it banned until the 1953 and it's very rare here.
Protestant is the Nordic way. It suits us, bur our churches has been taken over by Christ hating Marxists, many leave instead to fight (not by hands like a fight) for their church.

Many don't even know that we exist, the for foreigners cold way and not to talk to strangers probably but the countryside is still Christian in Sweden and Norway. I don't know about DK.
 
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dufrianord

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Hoping someone with insight will chime in. Wondering how accurate the arguments/views here reflect actual society. I appreciate the arguments for going with the natural order. I'm also hearing echoes from Kant and Kierkergaard which is refreshing although uncommon round here.


It was like this in the 90s from what my older sisters told me. Feminism was huge here in Sweden and equal right to men seen as an obvious thing.

It lead to that many men doesn't trust us anymore, and it's a big problem in my generation. Milllenialls screws up everything and we pay the price.

we are not oppressed by Nordic men and we never was. There are no better men in this world. Denmark kept its common while we had periods of feminism and mass migration to Sweden.

Swedish churches are still suffering the consequences as many females find the faith but not many men, and female priests are now more than men in Church of Sweden. Female priests now outnumber male ones in Church of Sweden
 
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