Christian-Jewish Dialogue?

BenTsion

Yeshua Worshipper
Nov 20, 2003
224
7
44
✟7,869.00
Faith
Messianic
simchat_torah said:
or...
5 - Our understanding of what is seemingly "clear" biblical passages are so convoluted that none of the 4 points listed above are anywhere near the truth?

Very few people who hold the Brit Hadasha to be 100% inspired would
argue that faith in Yeshua is not the only way. Frankly, Simchat, it is
quite clear through several passages, I'm sure you're familiar with all of them.
 
Upvote 0

BenTsion

Yeshua Worshipper
Nov 20, 2003
224
7
44
✟7,869.00
Faith
Messianic
simchat_torah said:
7 - Y'shua didn't come for the faithful or the healthy, but came for the sick and the lost.

You're taking the verse completely out of context. It is quite likely Yeshua
was being ironic here, since the same people who questioned him about his
walk with 'sinners' (which generated the reply you cited) were later on called
hypocrites by the same Yeshua. The Brit Hadasha is clear that we all have
sinned so we are all sick and lost without Yeshua. There's no such thing as
being spiritually healthy apart from Messiah.
 
Upvote 0

Achichem

Faithful
Aug 9, 2003
1,349
58
✟1,857.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Libertarian
Ebion said:
I agree with everything you said.

I have to say that you are the most open-minded and liberal Messianic Jew I have ever I met online, which makes me happy to know that there are probably more of you out there.

By the way, you never replied to my last post in my first thread...
:) I am with you and Hix on this one but I must say it been quite some time since I have been associated "liberal".It's kinda nice to hear, I must say! odd but nice.:)
 
Upvote 0

Hix

Zionist Jew
Dec 29, 2003
1,421
144
38
✟9,784.00
Faith
Judaism
Politics
UK-Conservative
lol must admit its been a long time since Ive been called Liberal too, but its nice to hear :)

Anyway I think il just type out this verse that is aparently Yeshua speaking ironically: Matthew 9:11 "And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your master with publicans and sinners? But when Yeshua heard that, he said unto them "they that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Does that sound ironic to you? No it doesnt, and by that interperation and the WHOLE message protrayed in the Tanach (which you conveniently seem to overlook) The Jews are saved by their ETERNAL (which G-d calls eternal no less than 30 times) covenant with HaShem.

I have met other messianic Jews when I was alot younger who accepted that Yeshua will some day fulfill the messianic prophesis in which the Jews are waiting and it is then that they will accept he is Moshiach. But whether they do or they dont that doesnt accept their fate made at Sinai. Yeshua came to heal the sick and sinners, the righteous have their place in the world to come and by HaShems standards in the Tanach are both righteous and his people. Tell me, do you truely believe that those Jews who are righteous, who love the Torah and HaShem and would die for both, and live the way HaShem asked them to, will be doomed to hell becuase HaShem forgot to mention when he said by following the Torah they will be saved that this can all fail if they dont accept their own moshiach before he fulfills all the prophesis?

It is just my opinion but I believe Yeshua came to enforce the Torah and write it on our hearts to do it, I believe he came so that gentiles too might enjoy a special relationship with HaShem just as the Jews have and always will. If there is no such thing as being spiritually healthy without messiah then I guess all the Jews throughout the ages will be joining Job, Yitzack and Yaacov to name but a few in hell is that what your saying? Why ignore what the Tanach has to say? Its just like some christians who believe it to be irrelevant, your can either say one of three things: "The Tanach is fulfilled in Yeshua and is no longer relevant for anything other than history" or "The Tanach isnt as important as the Brit Hadasha's words despite them both being from HaShem" or finally "BOTH the The Tanach and the Brit Hadasha work in harmony, when the Tanach says the Jews will be saved eternally then it is not refuted by the same HaShem in the Brit Hadasha as both are his perfect inspired word".

The Tanach clearly says on many occasions that the Jews will have their place in Olam ha bah, infact its an integeral message that if they follow the Torah they will be saved. It was by HaShems great mercy that he gave the Jewish people the Torah at Sinai, they enjoy (and I have experienced it also) a wonderous relationship with HaShem by performing the Mitzvot and connect to him. Why then are so many christians never mind Messianic JEWs comming out and saying that the Jews will not be sent to hell and are still under their eternal covenant? You know I wish all Messianic Jews would accept this and we would in truth get along so much better with our Jewish chaverim.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~
 
Upvote 0