Christian Flow Chart

[CCHIPSS]

For a while now I had been debating within myself what is a Christian and what is a church. I am going to a Seeker Sensitive church. At the same time a friend of mine goes to a Reformed church. I believe both sides have their own strong and weak theologies.

A few mind twisting things:

1) Christian is saved by faith alone. But faith without work is dead. Even the demons and Satan knows that God is all powerful and Jesus was the only way to salvation. They even fears God. However the demons are all going to hell because they rejected God. My fear is that many Christians knows about God and fears God, but they do not actually have faith, hope and love for God. There is no actual relationship there.

2) If a Christian is not sure about his own salvation, then everything he does would end up being for himself. Why did he donate and volunteer? Why did he stop his sins? Because he wants to make sure he is saved. If so he didn't do that because he genuinely love God and love his neighbors. Instead it was all out of fear for God and for selfish self-preservation reasons, which is pointless and in fact leads to eternal hell. Because they do not have a relationship with God. As such it is very important for Christians to be certain that they are saved, hence everything they do can be for selfless reasons.

Hence this is the struggle. Faith without works is certainly dead. If someone truly believes, they will love God. And so they will fight against obvious sins and go love their neighbours. They would equally love all of poor and rich, friends and foes, talkative and quiet, healthy and disabled. They would donate and volunteer out of love. But at the same time if that someone isn't even sure about their own salvation, how can they possibly love others selflessly?

And here is the dilemma of the church. If the church is "too easy" and say anyone who believes is saved, then these people will not go love God and love their neighbours. They will settle in their security and just do nothing. They will not volunteer, donate or share the Gospel with the least of these and their worst enemies. They will not even stop their sins and addictions. Why should they, when they can "enjoy" their sins and idols and still be saved? They would just come in, sing some songs, listen to a sermon, then go home. No life changes whatsoever. Do they actually have a relationship with God or do they just know about God? Even demons know about God but are going to hell.

However if the church is "too harsh" and say faith without works is dead, then people will indeed do a lot but only out of fear and self-preservation. These actions are not out of love but out of selfishness, because they "have to". Do they actually have a relationship with God or do they just fear God? Even demons fear God but are going to hell.

So here is the million dollar question: How does a church assure its members of their salvation, motivate its members to do actions out of love, but at the same time not cause them to fear for their eternal security?

Exceptions: I am not talking about extreme cases. For example a non-believer was on his death bed and then come to faith hours before he dies. Or a Christian suffering from Alzheimer's. Or a Christian was truly faithful for 40 years and then lost his faith right at the end due to brain cancer. (He might say he no longer believes, but I think the Holy Spirit stays.) Or a baby dying hours after he was born. I believe in these extreme cases God is merciful.

I have put together a flow chart for a Christian's faith journey and how the church can help him/her. Please review and comment.

 

[rockytopva]

My Christian Flow Chart...

1 . Outer Gates - Faith - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. - Romans 3:28
2. The Alter - Salvation - Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: - 1 Cor 5:7
3. The Laver - Sanctification - Conforming oneself to some righteous believers standard.
***The Inner Temple = Inner Sanctification***
4. The Table of Shewbread - The reading and meditation of God's word.
5. The Lampstand - Acquiring the proper E/c2... E (energy, motivation) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
6. The Alter of Golden Incense - Prayer and praise - It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; - 2 Chronicles 5:13
***The veil is what divides the Inner temple from the Holy of Holies***
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - The Ark of the Covenant - The Shekinah Glory

And from the studies of William Seymour...

 

[CodyFaith]

The points you made are too simplified and only taking it from one angle.

You're saying that those who don't know if they're saved, or Christians who believe in works salvation only act in ways to save themselves. Grace knows no such boundaries. We love because he loved and loves us. Humans aren't robotic.

As well, you're wrong when it comes to salvation. All one must do is believe. Humans can't just intellectually acknowledge Christ as the savior of the world without believing with a saving faith. Demons can, but humans can only recognize Christ as the savior when they have saving faith in him - which is the only form of Faith humans can have. Many times on scripture it simply says the need of believing Christ is the Son of God for means of salvation. The reason is because whenever humans believe this there's always something more than intellectual acknowledgement going on.

 

[timewerx]

This is something I posted in another thread also concerns @CCHIPSS OP

1 John 2:9
Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness.

1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.

Continued:

1 John 3:17
If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?

1 John 3:18-19
18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence:…

Finally...

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Churches should not have to motivate it's members to do good deeds, they come as a result of follow Christ. You cannot truly seperate loving your neighbor and being a Christian. This is the message of 1 John, and what James is talking about when he writes "Faith without works is dead". Works come as a result of faith, they are not something we have to do, but something that follows naturally from committing your life to Christ.

It is also worth mentioning that salvation is not just a one time event, but the lifelong process of becoming like Christ. The gospel is not just about getting to Heaven, especially in the commonly understood sense of going to Heaven instead of going to Hell. The problem with that view is that it comes from the Middle Ages, it is not how scripture, the early church, and the Orthodox still talks about Heaven and Hell.

 

[blackribbon]

To be a Christian you have to believe that God is GOD...that means the Father is GOD, the Son is GOD, and the Holy Spirit is GOD. That God is all knowing and all caring and in complete control of the universe. If we really believe that God is who He says He is, we will act like it because we want to please Him. We won't do anything...ANYTHING...that may displease Him because we really in our hearts of hearts, want to please Him 24/7. We also will not want anyone else to suffer or miss out on knowing God because we understand that He is the only answer for everything and that He loves every single one of His creations. If you live like this, the rest will fall in line and just be a natural outflowing of your believe that God is ever present and personal. In this aspect, every so called "good work" is done to simply please the one you love the best, GOD.

The reality is that we can't really even grasp how big God really is. We focus on pleasing ourselves and believe that God doesn't really notice the little stuff or that we have to do something to earn God's love. We do things that we want to do because we know we can ask for forgiveness or maybe even have convinced ourselves that God won't count that against us. We worry about day to day things when God has made it abundantly clear that we are just to trust Him to provide if we just make our focus only Him. We have a hard time embracing the idea that ALL our money, time, and things are really God's and that what He allows us to keep is a gift not that choose to "give" away OUR precious money, things, or time as a sacrifice or a "good deed". We cling to our human lives and comforts without realizing that this world is not the end and eternity is the goal, not comfort, easiness, or riches in the human form.

I don't live this way. I wish I were strong enough to but this is my goal. The rest is just rules and trappings to help people get to the point where they acknowledge simply that God is GOD, something that is just too hard for humans really wrap their minds around. The so called good deeds should just flow out of love for God and not even be something we are aware we do.

 

[Servant68]

Churches should not have to motivate it's members to do good deeds, they come as a result of follow Christ. You cannot truly seperate loving your neighbor and being a Christian. This is the message of 1 John, and what James is talking about when he writes "Faith without works is dead". Works come as a result of faith, they are not something we have to do, but something that follows naturally from committing your life to Christ.

It is also worth mentioning that salvation is not just a one time event, but the lifelong process of becoming like Christ. The gospel is not just about getting to Heaven, especially in the commonly understood sense of going to Heaven instead of going to Hell. The problem with that view is that it comes from the Middle Ages, it is not how scripture, the early church, and the Orthodox still talks about Heaven and Hell.

Today's sermon touched on that subject. It was on 1 Peter chapter 2. The pastor used several examples of what faith and grace looks like in real life. Very powerful.

1 Peter 2New International Version (NIV)

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.