Christian Drinking

[chiefofsinners]

drinking in moderation is more of a safety concern than anything scriptural.

What? Did you miss that memo, all throughout the New Testament? Getting drunk is where we abuse alcohol. Drinking in moderation (enjoying alcohol within its God-ordained purpose) is not sinful. Getting drunk is.

I guess a rapist could say, "Well, the Bible mentions sexual immorality but it doesn't directly tell me to use sex in the right way, so raping is okay. It's much more of a safety concern to not rape people than anything scriptural." That guy would just be acting on his natural instincts...what's the problem?

 

[chiefofsinners]

Abstain from all appearance of evil.

You may want to look this verse up in the Greek. The KJV is totally off, and, not surprisingly, lots of Christians use it as a scare tactic. Literally, the verse says, "Abstain from all kinds of evil." Is it not obvious that abstaining from the appearance of evil is impossible? What if I am walking with my wife, holding her hand, and I kiss her? To some people, if we weren't married, that would be considered evil. So, to avoid appearing evil, my duty would be to not touch my wife or kiss her in public. That's ridiculous.

 

[Epaphras]

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

Abstain from all appearance (a view, that is form) of evil.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.


God made marijuana too. Using this outside medical purposes is ok too. Are christians not a royal priesthood, are they not made priests and kings by Christ? If we are to enter into the holiest (Hebrews 10:19-20), as the priest did, and offer sacrifices continually (Hebrews 13:15-16), I don't think I ought not drink, lest my judgement, sacrifice, and Christ body is perverted and contaminited. God, in the days of his flesh, did not drink alcohol, so why should we, seeing we are that body? "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. I Corinthians 3:17".

Jesus' life is our perfect example: "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: I Peter 2:21). I want to follow as close I can in those steps.

 

[Dak man]

To me it is all a matter of personal behavior. For me atleast when I do get drunk, it does not cause me to be sinful and lose all my inhibitions. It just makes me happier and more jovial than I normally am. It's my opinion that if you really hold true to your morals and convictions when you are sober, being drunk won't make you cast aside any of that. And I don't do it every day or anything like that and otherwise take care to make my body the best temple it can be.

 

[Leimeng]

~ One of many things that seems to by-pass most critics of drinking is the Word of God itself. When Jesus made wine at the wedding ("they" say), it was not really wine, but it was grape juice. THAT is preposterous! Classical Greek has words for WINE and for Juices. The word used in the story of the wedding party was WINE. Not only that, the word for word for wine indicated a heavy alcoholic content! See what shoddy scholarship does?
~ We are told to avoid being drunk in excess! Part of the idea in that phrase is 'in excess!' Why do people ignore part of a phrase or sentance? Is this a case of attention deficit disorder? Is it a case of not understanding English?
~ John Wesley supported his ministry by writting reviews of the ale's and beer produced by the various of pubs around England. The first two crops the puritans planted when they came to the new world were hops and cannibis. Jack Daniels (the founder of the famed whiskey that bears his name), was a Southern Baptist minister.
~ Everything in moderation.
~ I encourage everyone here to learn to read English first, then learn Greek!
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~


Gravity...It's Not Just a Good Idea. It's the Law

 

[chiefofsinners]

Abstain from all appearance (a view, that is form) of evil.

What does evil look like?

Are christians not a royal priesthood, are they not made priests and kings by Christ? If we are to enter into the holiest (Hebrews 10:19-20), as the priest did, and offer sacrifices continually (Hebrews 13:15-16), I don't think I ought not drink, lest my judgement, sacrifice, and Christ body is perverted and contaminited. God, in the days of his flesh, did not drink alcohol, so why should we, seeing we are that body?

Jesus, as a Jew, did not drink fermented wine? I don't see how any of your verses relate to consuming alcohol moderately.

 

[chiefofsinners]

~ One of many things that seems to by-pass most critics of drinking is the Word of God itself. When Jesus made wine at the wedding ("they" say), it was not really wine, but it was grape juice. THAT is preposterous! Classical Greek has words for WINE and for Juices. The word used in the story of the wedding party was WINE. Not only that, the word for word for wine indicated a heavy alcoholic content! See what shoddy scholarship does?
~ We are told to avoid being drunk in excess! Part of the idea in that phrase is 'in excess!' Why do people ignore part of a phrase or sentance? Is this a case of attention deficit disorder? Is it a case of not understanding English?
~ John Wesley supported his ministry by writting reviews of the ale's and beer produced by the various of pubs around England. The first two crops the puritans planted when they came to the new world were hops and cannibis. Jack Daniels (the founder of the famed whiskey that bears his name), was a Southern Baptist minister.
~ Everything in moderation.

The best work I've read to support moderate alcohol consumption is God Gave Wine by Ken Gentry. It goes through and answers almost every question. And, Gentry doesn't even consume alcohol himself.

 

[ahman]

What? Did you miss that memo, all throughout the New Testament? Getting drunk is where we abuse alcohol. Drinking in moderation (enjoying alcohol within its God-ordained purpose) is not sinful. Getting drunk is.

I guess a rapist could say, "Well, the Bible mentions sexual immorality but it doesn't directly tell me to use sex in the right way, so raping is okay. It's much more of a safety concern to not rape people than anything scriptural." That guy would just be acting on his natural instincts...what's the problem?

notice how i said more.

i realise that there is scripture to say don't go around and behave like a drunken toss, but that's also a law.

it is more of a safety concern than a scriptural concern for not getting totalled. because acting like that is more of a risk to your physical health than your spiritual health in my opinion.

 

[Epaphras]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

What is wine? A mocker=to makes mouths at, that is to scoff (disparge, that is ridicule)
What is strong drink? Raging=to make a loud sound, by implying to be in great commotion or tumult, to rage, war, moan, clamor.

If drinking wine in moderation is ok, then mocking in moderation is ok and being disruptive in moderation is ok.
The same can be applied to marijuana, it is not only good for medical purposes, but also to get high. If I can control myself when not high, then I can do it when I am high. We can us it in moderation too.

Moderation is not for me in this area.

 

[ahman]

i dont follow that at all...but if that's what you believe, then so be it

 

[minstrelite]

I think getting drunk is a bad idea, because even if it in and of itself is not a sin, it could easily lead to sin, because it causes a person to err in judgment. Drinking a little wine now and then is fine. That's my opinion.

 

[ahman]

it sure can lead to sin, but only if youre not smart enough to be responsible.
if you aren't you would probably have sinned anyway.

playing soccer could easily lead to sin, so it's probably not a good idea, just the odd game of pig in the middle right?

 

[chiefofsinners]

notice how i said more.

What?

i realise that there is scripture to say don't go around and behave like a drunken toss, but that's also a law.

By law do you mean all the stuff Paul said that Christians should not do?

it is more of a safety concern than a scriptural concern for not getting totalled. because acting like that is more of a risk to your physical health than your spiritual health in my opinion.

In your opinion? Either something is sin or it is not. Opinion doesn't mean anything when something is so clear.

 

[chiefofsinners]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

What is wine? A mocker=to makes mouths at, that is to scoff (disparge, that is ridicule)
What is strong drink? Raging=to make a loud sound, by implying to be in great commotion or tumult, to rage, war, moan, clamor.

If drinking wine in moderation is ok, then mocking in moderation is ok and being disruptive in moderation is ok.
The same can be applied to marijuana, it is not only good for medical purposes, but also to get high. If I can control myself when not high, then I can do it when I am high. We can us it in moderation too.

Moderation is not for me in this area.

I guess it's pretty easy to pick and choose which verses you will use to back up your legalistic lifestyle. If you read all of what the Bible says about alcohol you would change your mind. Or, you could just keep touting your opinion based on false presuppositions and misinterpretations.

Like I said, the guy who wrote the best book in support of moderation doesn't even drink. Why would he do that? Obviously he's not trying to find ways to approve of his "sinful lifestyle."

(Adding a "not for me" clause at the end of several holier-than-thou comments doesn't negate them.)

 

[chiefofsinners]

playing soccer could easily lead to sin, so it's probably not a good idea

It's interesting that you use the basic argument Luther used in relation to alcohol consumption. The only problem is that Luther believed getting drunk was a sin, as is raping a woman. No, we don't get rid of the alcohol or the women -- we use them in the way God wants His people to.

 

[ahman]

i realise this, but where does it say how God expects us to use alcohol...in my experience it is down to your own discretion more than anything.

if you can drink 17 beers and still function properly and not sin...so be it, a good night for you.

for anonther person, this may be 4 beers. moderation, and how alcohol affects you is all relative.

 

[chiefofsinners]

i realise this, but where does it say how God expects us to use alcohol...in my experience it is down to your own discretion more than anything.

The Bible commands people to drink, but it forbids drunkenness. The obvious conclusion is that abstention and overindulgence are both unbiblical.

if you can drink 17 beers and still function properly and not sin...so be it, a good night for you.

for anonther person, this may be 4 beers. moderation, and how alcohol affects you is all relative.

I agree, it is relative. Everyone's tolerance is different. But, from several things you have said, you don't believe getting drunk is a sin. Like most of us here have brought out, the Bible is clear that intoxication is not Christ-like. I don't know when someone else is drunk. But, I do know when I have had too much.

 

[ahman]

i know when i have had too much, but define drunk...is that slightly happy, tipsy, or any level above...because i can tell you, that some mean characters i have sat down and had a drink with, become some of the most amiable people you'd ever meet when they've had more than a few. i think the bible forbids drunkeness mainly because of the increased chance of sin.
but for some people, this level is far past what everybody else would define as drunk. for me, i just become really happy for quite awhile. being drunk, i dont see as a sin, being drunk and unruly is the sin.

 

[Neenie]

I like a good drink sometimes

I agree with most others who posted here that being intoxicated is a sin. And it surprised me that there are more than a few here who believe it's all right to have a little drink, most of my Christian friends make sure "demon alcohol" never touches their lips - That's ok I respect that. However, I try and align my life with the word of God.

1 Timothy 5:23And don't worry too much about what the critics will say. Go ahead and drink a little wine, for instance; it's good for your digestion, good medicine for what ails you.

18Don't drink too much wine. That cheapens your life. Drink the Spirit of God, huge draughts of him.


It's not hard to understand really......

 

[chiefofsinners]

i know when i have had too much, but define drunk...is that slightly happy, tipsy, or any level above...because i can tell you, that some mean characters i have sat down and had a drink with, become some of the most amiable people you'd ever meet when they've had more than a few. i think the bible forbids drunkeness mainly because of the increased chance of sin.
but for some people, this level is far past what everybody else would define as drunk. for me, i just become really happy for quite awhile. being drunk, i dont see as a sin, being drunk and unruly is the sin.

The Greek word literally means to "drink to intoxication." So, whatever that means for your body, not mine, is your point that it becomes sinful. It's your responsibility to find that limit and glorify God by drinking in His way.