Christian Dems take on debt ceiling in new ads

[Umaro]

Considering the context of the discussion, there wasn't any problem with my wording

Yeah, didn't think you would.

 

[KarateCowboy]

How many times did GOP icon Ronald Reagan raise the debt ceiling? 5, 10, 15 times?

No, he raised it 17 times!

How many times did GOP icon Ronald Reagan raise the debt ceiling? 5, 10, 15 times? No, he raised it 17 times. - Page 2

That is meaningless because it does not change the fact that we should not raise it any more. Congress should spend less and cut entitlement programs. The Federal Reserve gave out $16_000_000_000_000 in secret loans at 0% interest from 2007-2010. The Founding Fathers started a bloody revolution and killed their rulers over less.

 

[KarateCowboy]

The lesson apparently learned here is that it simply galls conservatives that a liberal who is making a middle-class living and believes in paying for the services that make this country good actually lives by his or her own philosophy and votes in ways that would impact themselves first and foremost.

It simply galls them. So they have to find some "loophole" or something that the liberal didn't do or find some way to further denigrate that.

I like seeing that because it tells me how conservatives view the world. They feel that only virtue and strength of will can come from their side and when they see a liberal who not only talks the talk of their philosophy but walks the walk they have to find something they can use to ignore it.

I have not seen anybody here who is galling. And besides, I am not a conservative so your conclusion is borne from a false premise. Voicing support for a stillborn government program doesn't put text books in front of the kids. On the other hand, genuine self sacrifice fueled by gumption does. I really just want to know: do you support the ability to overpay your taxes for 'the general welfare'? And: If you do, how much of your income would you give up? Fifty per cent? Seventy?

 

[Umaro]

That is meaningless because it does not change the fact that we should not raise it any more. Congress should spend less and cut entitlement programs. The Federal Reserve gave out $16_000_000_000_000 in secret loans at 0% interest from 2007-2010. The Founding Fathers started a bloody revolution and killed their rulers over less.

What about the other unfunded liabilities we have? Shouldn't we raise taxes to pay for the unfunded wars and medicare part D? Even if you consider those the only valid powers of government, that doesn't mean we don't have have revenues enough to pay for them.

 

[KarateCowboy]

What about the other unfunded liabilities we have? Shouldn't we raise taxes to pay for the unfunded wars and medicare part D? Even if you consider those the only valid powers of government, that doesn't mean we don't have have revenues enough to pay for them.

I am tired and your double negatives confuse me . . .

 

[Umaro]

I am tired and your double negatives confuse me . . .

To paraphrase, shouldn't we raise taxes to pay for the wars and medicare part D? Things which are currently entirely deficit spending.

 

[KarateCowboy]

To paraphrase, shouldn't we raise taxes to pay for the wars and medicare part D? Things which are currently entirely deficit spending.

Better to take the plasma tv back to the store than go out and get a fifth job. Cut the $1_700_000_000_000 pork packages. Collect on the $16_000_000_000_000 in loans the Federal Reserve gave without Congressional permission from 2007-2010. Then expropriation is not necessary.

 

[Umaro]

Better to take the plasma tv back to the store than go out and get a fifth job. Cut the $1_700_000_000_000 pork packages. Collect on the $16_000_000_000_000 in loans the Federal Reserve gave without Congressional permission from 2007-2010. Then expropriation is not necessary.

That won't be enough though. The big spending programs are defense, SS, medicare, and welfare. Say we cut SS and medicare entirely. Those programs are funded by their own taxes, not the general taxes. The government is now "spending less," but there's no more money to go towards paying the deficit spending of wars for instance. Not to mention we're a decade into them already in deficit spending, so even if you balance the books from here on out, you've still got a decade of back pay to make up for.

Also, isn't the federal reserve a private corporation? Do they need congressional approval to give out loans?

 

[MachZer0]

That won't be enough though. The big spending programs are defense, SS, medicare, and welfare. Say we cut SS and medicare entirely. Those programs are funded by their own taxes, not the general taxes. The government is now "spending less," but there's no more money to go towards paying the deficit spending of wars for instance. Not to mention we're a decade into them already in deficit spending, so even if you balance the books from here on out, you've still got a decade of back pay to make up for.

It would seem more legitimate to cut welfare rather than Social Security and Medicare. People paid their whole lives into those two programs with an at least implied promise of receiving benefits. Not so with welfare.

 

[Umaro]

It would seem more legitimate to cut welfare rather than Social Security and Medicare. People paid their whole lives into those two programs with an at least implied promise of receiving benefits. Not so with welfare.

I've paid into welfare my entire working life on the premise that should I lose all my money it will help me out.

 

[MachZer0]

I've paid into welfare my entire working life on the premise that should I lose all my money it will help me out.

Not really. Social Security and Medicare are specific taxes taken from your paycheck. If you are self employed, you pay the self employment tax. There is no specific welfare tax.

 

[Umaro]

Not really. Social Security and Medicare are specific taxes taken from your paycheck. If you are self employed, you pay the self employment tax. There is no specific welfare tax.

Why does it matter if it's a specific welfare tax by name or not? Part of the money I make goes in the form of taxes to pay for the welfare program, and should I ever meet the conditions for it, I'll receive welfare, just like how part of my money goes to SS, and should I ever meet the conditions for it, I'll receive SS.

 

[MachZer0]

Why does it matter if it's a specific welfare tax by name or not? Part of the money I make goes in the form of taxes to pay for the welfare program, and should I ever meet the conditions for it, I'll receive welfare, just like how part of my money goes to SS, and should I ever meet the conditions for it, I'll receive SS.

It's just not the same as the specific taxes you pay for Social security and Medicare. Big difference.

 

[MachZer0]

It strikes me as a bit funny to hear people in their early 20's talking about paying taxes their entire working lives.

 

[Umaro]

It's just not the same as the specific taxes you pay for Social security and Medicare. Big difference.

Can you explain that big difference? If you take $50 for SS tax, and $50 out of my general tax toward welfare, isn't that the same?

It strikes me as a bit funny to hear people in their early 20's talking about paying taxes their entire working lives.

Have to start somewhere.

 

[MachZer0]

I guess when you haven't paid a lot of taxes, it's easy to talk about redistribution of wealth since it's mostly other people's wealth that's being redistributed.

 

[MachZer0]

Can you explain that big difference? If you take $50 for SS tax, and $50 out of my general tax toward welfare, isn't that the same?



Have to start somewhere.

There is no specific $50 taken out of your income for welfare.

 

[Umaro]

There is no specific $50 taken out of your income for welfare.

Specific or not, $50(to use a fake number) of my taxes go toward it, hows that different than $50(fake number) of my taxes going toward SS? Just because one is labeled on my paycheck? The end result is the same. Part of my taxes now go to welfare, so I'm paying into the system. Should I need it, the system is there for me. If you've got a problem with welfare, you should have a problem with SS and medicare too.

 

[MachZer0]

Specific or not, $50(to use a fake number) of my taxes go toward it, hows that different than $50(fake number) of my taxes going toward SS? Just because one is labeled on my paycheck? The end result is the same. Part of my taxes now go to welfare, so I'm paying into the system. Should I need it, the system is there for me. If you've got a problem with welfare, you should have a problem with SS and medicare too.

I do have a problem with Social Security and Medicare. But they are programs we are forced to participate in and they come with specific taxes, unlike welfare which takes money from people who earned it and gives it to people who didn't earn it.

 

[Umaro]

I do have a problem with Social Security and Medicare. But they are programs we are forced to participate in and they come with specific taxes, unlike welfare which takes money from people who earned it and gives it to people who didn't earn it.

SS and Medicare take money from people who earned it and give it to people that didn't as well. If I live to 95 I'll get back more than I put in. If I die at 60 I'll get back less than I put in.