"Christian churches have lost their way ...."

[Albion]

The title of this thread is taken from the below quote by retired Baptist minister Howard Bess.

"Christian churches have lost their way seeking social acceptability and comfort for the elite. In the process they have claimed the presence of their Christ in a cup of juice and a bite of bread. The distortion is disastrous. The need for Christians to take a new look at Jesus of Nazareth and his teachings is urgent." -- Howard Bess.

Isn't Bess only about 2000 years late in making that assessment? He talks here as though it's a new development.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Christian churches have lost their way seeking social acceptability and comfort for the elite. In the process they have claimed the presence of their Christ in a cup of juice and a bite of bread. The distortion is disastrous. The need for Christians to take a new look at Jesus of Nazareth and his teachings is urgent." -- Howard Bess

While Howard Bess is not one of my favorite authors, the article at the above link in some aspects restates complaints of early Anabaptists regarding the mainstream religions of their day.

Unfortunately, it seems that today these same complaints might be relevant to many of today's Anabaptist churches and their members.

I'm hoping this article will stimulate some introspection and discussion.

After reading that, why should we care what else Bess wrote? He doesn't even seem to believe Jesus is divine.

"In comfortable settings, the gospel is often spiritualized to the extent that it helps us avoid responsibility for our neighbor's oppression." -- Titus Peachey, pp April 13, "366 Ways to Peace", Herald Press, Scottdale, PA 1999

Will you also not discuss this issue because perhaps you might find fault with Titus Peachey?

If so, then consider the following.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

It seems to me the above statement is also along these same lines.

So, returning to the thought I expressed in my opening post, I'm hoping that these quotes will stimulate some introspection and discussion.

So, what was the context of his remarks? And, BTW, 1999 isn't quite the same era "of early Anabaptists." Would you like to bring up some quotes from the early anabaptists?

Do you even know the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What is it? If you don't know, then that is the first thing we should discuss.

I think most of us can give a long list of reasons why many churches have lost their way

It's even worse than you thought.

Of course, even back in the time of the Apostles we see that some Christian churches have lost their way. Quick now, which church back then was the earliest and how did it lose its way.

How about we focus on what I asked this thread to be about, that is the following statement by Bess:

"Christian churches have lost their way seeking social acceptability and comfort for the elite." in light of the early Anabaptists' rejection of the established churches of their day.

This to me is what many people looking to Christ have not been told in the churches.

I have spoken to Christians today who tell me that sin is unavoidable because we are in this flesh, that it's impossible to live free from.

Everything …… in scripture and done in my life is opposite of the above comments. ……

OK, but I don't think I saw in your post any response to the questions in the OP and in my second post.

Suffice it to say that virtually all of the churches have made compromises since the days of the 1st Century Christians, especially in terms of accepting divorce and remarriage.

???

Ummmm .... Jesus and Paul accepted divorce and remarriage in certain circumstances (Matthew 19:9 and 1 Corinthians 7:15).

The problem is introduced when people try to substitute their own judgment, wishes, and desires for the Word of God.

Thus, the quandary and confusion continues…. …..

 

[Righttruth]

They have become social clubs and amusement centers with their Santa Claus replacing Jesus, suffering cross by dazzling Christmas tree and great resurrection by eggs!

 

[Albion]

They have become social clubs and amusement centers with their Santa Claus replacing Jesus, suffering cross by dazzling Christmas tree and great resurrection by eggs!

This may be what has happened to many ordinary people, even Christian ones who should know better, but I do not think it's accurate to say of the churches themselves.

 

[Righttruth]

This may be what has happened to many ordinary people, even Christian ones who should know better, but I do not think it's accurate to say of the churches themselves.

Please let me know which church gives paramount importance to the words of Jesus?

 

[Albion]

Please let me know which church gives paramount importance to the words of Jesus?

I have attended many different churches of a number of denominations, and I can say without hesitation that none of them lost the real meaning of Christmas to secular things like Santa Claus and Mistletoe, etc. in sermons or adornments or in any other way. Whether ordinary people outside of church place too much emphasis upon such things is another matter.

 

[Righttruth]

I have attended many different churches of a number of denominations, and I can say without hesitation that none of them lost the real meaning of Christmas to secular things like Santa Claus and Mistletoe, etc. in sermons or adornments or in any other way. Whether ordinary people outside of church place too much emphasis upon such things is another matter.

Good to know there are many churches which are not swayed by amusements, yet how many give paramount importance to the words and life of Jesus?

 

[Albion]

Good to know there are many churches which are not swayed by amusements, yet how many give paramount importance to the words and life of Jesus?

All of them, I'd say.

 

[Righttruth]

All of them, I'd say.

How many have put the words of Jesus to practice?

 

[Albion]

How many have put the words of Jesus to practice?

There are quite a few churches. Many have done wonderful work for the Lord. Some have not done so well.

 

[Righttruth]

There are quite a few churches. Many have done wonderful work for the Lord. Some have not done so well.

To what extent they put into practice the Sermon on the Mount?

 

[Albion]

You just don't want to believe that any church really does preach 'Christ and him crucified,' do you?

But yes, there are many very good local churches.

 

[WayneinMaine]

How many have put the words of Jesus to practice?

The Hutterites, in their earliest days, put all of Jesus' words into practice.

I expect there are a few groups that can claim the same, but they are probably too obscure and small ("Little flocks" as Jesus referred to his disciples) to draw much notice.

 

[Righttruth]

The Hutterites, in their earliest days, put all of Jesus' words into practice.

I expect there are a few groups that can claim the same, but they are probably too obscure and small ("Little flocks" as Jesus referred to his disciples) to draw much notice.

So there is much deviations in all churches of present day. Then if that is the case who will be their advocate in heaven for salvation?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Good to know there are many churches which are not swayed by amusements, yet how many give paramount importance to the words and life of Jesus?

How can we or anyone know ?

All of them, I'd say.

How many have you actually seen and experienced personally and tested ?

How many have put the words of Jesus to practice?

As many as have been called and chosen by HIM. (?)

To what extent they put into practice the Sermon on the Mount?

In what ways ? (Y'SHUA describes the believers [ecclesia] often)

The Hutterites, in their earliest days, put all of Jesus' words into practice.
I expect there are a few groups that can claim the same, but they are probably too obscure and small ("Little flocks" as Jesus referred to his disciples) to draw much notice.

Yes, I was greatly saddened to see the Waldensian church on television last year in Lithuania gave up their "little flocks"[disciples] status of SCRIPTURE and joined in with a large ecumenical mix of different religions. I had read or heard that Anabaptist congregations had done the same thing, but did not see any specific.

So there is much deviations in all churches of present day. Then if that is the case who will be their advocate in heaven for salvation?

For SALVATION, the ONLY ADVOCATE IS Y'SHUA MESSIAH KING AND SAVIOR !

 

[Righttruth]

How can we or anyone know ?

for SALVATION, the ONLY ADVOCATE IS Y'SHUA MESSIAH KING AND SAVIOR !

Yes, Jesus will say to many self-claimers with their deviations that He never knew them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, Jesus will say to many self-claimers with their deviations that He never knew them.

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question....
Certainly in YHWH'S WORD there must be a way to TEST as HE SAYS, or to KNOW,
so as not to be deceived by them, right ?

 

[Righttruth]

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question....
Certainly in YHWH'S WORD there must be a way to TEST as HE SAYS, or to KNOW,
so as not to be deceived by them, right ?

We need to strive for perfection and walk in His way to the best of our ability and seek His grace with hope. No advanced guarantee of salvation.

 

[Raggedyman]

Pretty sure the last church is laodicean, the lukewarm church that will be vomited, spewed, spat from Gods mouth
Guess it's pretty clear that the bible thinks that the last church should be rejected
The question is why and what should we do?

Churches primary focus is and should be about relationships and relationship building
Building relationships with each other and by that growing in Jesus

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Building relationships with each other and by that growing in Jesus

As in SCRIPTURE, when someone asked Y'SHUA
how to get into the kingdom of heaven,
HE said "You must be born again" (with lots and lots of SCRIPTURE describing the characteristics of someone who is born again; no "how to" since it is by the WILL OF YHWH, not man) .

The ecclesia [Christians; immersed in Y'SHUA, following HIM] all were born again to be in the body ; to be ecclesia;
then
they were in union with one another
and they learned how to live daily from that point.

Before they were born again, there was nothing holding them to the body , nothing holding them to being anything concerning the body, nothing required of them other than to seek the kingdom of heaven (so they could be born again).