Christian church LEADERS should NOT engage in political activism

[Michie]

And I agree with you back. But there is a Godly way of speaking to about issues, an example of which I provided earlier in this thread and I'm not sure if you read it.

Christian church LEADERS leading their congregation to protest against a government policy such as (for example) using gasoline-powered vehicles is, in my view, engaging in political activism, and doing so demonstrates that they lack discernment and should probably be avoided with regard to teaching the word.

Well you can’t compartmentalize everything. Stewardship and social justice are very much part of Christianity.

 

[Not of the World]

Pope Francis

He has become quite a worldly politician.

 

[Not of the World]

Well you can’t compartmentalize everything. Stewardship and social justice are very much part of Christianity.

Feel free to show me scriptures wherein Jesus and the apostles engaged in political activism.

 

[Not of the World]

Well, you don't actually know what he was doing, do you? His comment was, "When I ask why they are poor..." Which seems like a perfectly reasonable question to me.

Talking about economic systems is out of his purview. If he wants to engage in politics he should quit the church and run for office or go work in government. Again he's not spreading the word of God but, rather, his own word.

 

[Not of the World]

Caring for the earth is not a "massive scam.

Yea, that's not what I said.

 

[Not of the World]

You say Jesus and the apostles never engaged in political activism as you defined it; I am pointing out that normal, healthy mission and ministry will have political implications. It did for Christ and the apostles, and it does for us, even though our contexts are very different.

Yes, ministry will have "political implications" IF people listen to the word and vote and govern accordingly. That's not the same as saying that Jesus and his apostles were political activists.

 

[Paidiske]

Talking about economic systems is out of his purview.

In general, I think it's fair to say that clergy are not economists and shouldn't pretend to expertise or authority in that area. However, advocating for the folks who come to our food banks (for example) is a different matter.

Again he's not spreading the word of God but, rather, his own word.

Scripture has plenty to say about caring for the poor. Including justice, and challenging those who exploit the economically vulnerable.

 

[Paidiske]

Yes, ministry will have "political implications" IF people listen to the word and vote and govern accordingly. That's not the same as saying that Jesus and his apostles were political activists.

But no one is saying Jesus and the apostles were political activists. What some of us are saying is that there is political activism which is appropriate for Christians today; and that doesn't exclude the clergy.

 

[Not of the World]

To transform unjust structures of society...

In my mind, the best way to "transform unjust structures of society" is to convert the people running society to the truth of God and the best way to do that is by sharing with them THE WORD OF GOD.

 

[Not of the World]

Scripture has plenty to say about...challenging those who exploit the economically vulnerable.

Which verse(s) commands us to "challenge" those who exploit the economically vulnerable?

 

[Not of the World]

...there is political activism which is appropriate for Christians today; and that doesn't exclude the clergy.

Being engaged in the politics of the world is something that neither Jesus nor his apostles did, but perhaps clergy that does so knows something that Jesus didn't.

 

[Michie]

But no one is saying Jesus and the apostles were political activists. What some of us are saying is that there is political activism which is appropriate for Christians today; and that doesn't exclude the clergy.

Good luck. This is circular and I’m just getting over Covid. No patience! Lol! Enjoyed your posts.

 

[Paidiske]

In my mind, the best way to "transform unjust structures of society" is to convert the people running society to the truth of God and the best way to do that is by sharing with them THE WORD OF GOD.

Do you think it reasonable for other Christians to do this in other ways, though? Or is your way the only valid way?

Which verse(s) commands us to "challenge" those who exploit the economically vulnerable?

How do you read, say, Isaiah 3 and not see there exactly such a challenge?

 

[Not of the World]

Do you think it reasonable for other Christians to do this in other ways, though? Or is your way the only valid way?

No, I don't have the belief that my view is infallible. But when making arguments on how we should live our lives I will always go to the word of God and the examples of Christ.

 

[Not of the World]

Do you think it reasonable for other Christians to do this in other ways, though? Or is your way the only valid way?

How do you read, say, Isaiah 3 and not see there exactly such a challenge?

I don't see a direct commandment in Isaiah 3 telling believers to "challenge those who exploit the economically vulnerable". Yes, the Bible is clear about how we are supposed to care for weak people but I don't see anything about "challenging" or confronting someone.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't see a direct commandment in Isaiah 3 telling believers to "challenge those who exploit the economically vulnerable". Yes, the Bible is clear about how we are supposed to care for weak people but I don't see anything about "challenging" or confronting someone.

I didn't say there was a direct commandment. But there are many good and right and proper things to do which are not directly commanded.

In this case, especially, when we see Scripture offering a prophetic challenge, it is not wrong to proclaim that challenge in our own context.

If I may be blunt, many of your posts come across as if you want clergy to refrain from identifying specific ways in which Scripture might challenge us, especially if there might be disagreement about the specifics. As if we are to say only what the Scriptures say and not reflect with our people on what that might mean for us today. But that's not a view I can agree with.

 

[Not of the World]

If I may be blunt, many of your posts come across as if you want clergy to refrain from identifying specific ways in which Scripture might challenge us, especially if there might be disagreement about the specifics.

That wasn't "blunt".

I think it's healthy to take a hard look at every word of the Bible and to compare to everything we believe, do, and say. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be here arguing with you!

I kid, I kid.

Let's change it up.

Do you believe it's a good idea for a church leader to endorse a person who is running for political office?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you believe it's a good idea for a church leader to endorse a person who is running for political office?

No. Absolutely not. That, to me, is well over the line.

As I said earlier, commenting on policy in light of the reign of God is one thing; but commenting on party or person is quite another.

 

[Not of the World]

No. Absolutely not. That, to me, is well over the line.

As I said earlier, commenting on policy in light of the reign of God is one thing; but commenting on party or person is quite another.

I think that we might not be that far apart on this. It might be more of a question of semantics.

 

[Diamond7]

It is written in Hebrews - Let brotherly love continue and do NOT neglect to show hospitality to strangers.

Many people believe this is why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed when they did not offer hospitality to strangers. When I was around 18 I hitchhiked around the country for around 3 months. Mostly in California but all the states in between. I really never went without a meal and never went without a place to stay. In California, at the time all homeless people were welcome to stay in any mine shack or ranch-hand bunk house. Usually, they did not have work but we were always welcome to sleep there if we needed a bed. There were vacant lots that were very well taken care of that had a little concealed area if you wanted to sleep there for the night. I have no idea what it is like now, 50 years later but they treated people pretty well back then.

As a nation, I think we take pretty good care of people. At least we do the best we can to help people. This could be a reason for concern. It could be a reason God would judge a nation.