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Christian bashing

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rockytrails

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Bashing Christianity its very popular to day .But don't you think
it also causes people to want to know about what we believe and when they hear it many come to faith in Jesus their only savior to.

Christian bashing don't you think God works it out to be a good thing for some who hear the truth of Jesus.
 

porterross

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Not so much when our government and municipalities condone the removal of references to or the mention of Christ or the Word of God.

Do you think the banning of prayer at sporting events helps or hurts our witness?
 
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WildStrawberry

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As Porter said, the banning of prayer at sporting events, the brouhaha over the 10 Commandments in court rooms and in the Supreme Court, the push to remove "In God We Trust" from our money, trying to remove "under God" from our pledge, the push to make it a crime to denounce homosexuality from the pulpit...

All of these things show that the world is moving further and further from the Word. The world wants to remove the Word from every facet of our lives. The average American would rather do something other than read the Bible. This website states that, although 92% of American households have at least one copy of The Bible, a very sad 59% of Americans actually READ The Bible.

Biblical illiteracy is rampant in America. I just called my Mother, a woman who grew up in the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, attended Lutheran day school until the 8th grade and still reads her Bible today, and asked her to tell me who preached the Sermon on the Mount. "Paul" she said confidently. :doh: When I groaned she said hurriedly "wait...that's in Matthew...JESUS preached it!" So I'll give her points for knowing where it can be found. But still!

According to this website, 80% of "born again" Christians, including GW Bush, believe that the Bible says that money is the root of all evil. It further states that less than 50% of Christians can name the first book of the Bible. (Genesis)

Barna.org, a Christian research group, states that, "Spirituality in America is Hot but 76 million adults never attend church"

The statistics that I've been able to find show that, contrary to what you've theorized, the "war on Christians" does NOT, in fact, make people look at the Christian faith. In fact, in my experience it makes people back AWAY from the Christian faith. To be like Peter when people ask (assume "snotty" tone of voice") are YOU a Christian? (/snotty tone of voice) as if it were akin to homosexuality or single parenthood or even divorce, just 50 years ago.

Christians need to confront these facts head on. Parents need to establish good Bible reading habits in their kids...heck adults need to establish them in their own lives. Think of how many adults bring their kids to Sunday School but don't stay for Adult Bible Study. What would change if all of those Adults started to stay instead of, say, going out to breakfast while their kids are being "babysat" for free.


*getting off my soapbox*

I'm sorry. Ahem. :sorry:

Kae
 
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Tofferer

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You may be on target. Hope and I stay for adult education hour while Jeremiah is in sunday school. However, we may be an exception. I know that our nation is getting worse. I live about 45 minutes south of Seattle Washington. I have heard it said that Seattle is the most atheistic city in the world. I don't know the source for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. I sometimes wish our Lord Christ Jesus would return before too much longer......

:help:
 
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rockytrails

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persecution of Christ's church from what I have read in the bible makes it Strengths known .

after all don't we call Gods church on earth the church militant .

I believe Gods word will achieve the purpose God intends .
for many that may mean damnation But for the few being saved its every thing.


the government with the use of Gods law at times and even perhaps its use of prayer will never convert any one any way
both still fall short of God's means of grace. Which God gave only to his persecuted church. and not government.
 
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RadMan

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A spiritual stance has to come from within the "church". Equipping the saints is the first line of defense. Walther's comments on the strength needed to be Lutheran and Christian.

The Motives and Qualifications of A Genuine Church-Member
By: [FONT=&quot]Dr. C.F.W. Walther, First President of the [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Lutheran[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Church[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Missouri[/FONT] [FONT=&quot] Synod[/FONT]




(From: "Church-Membership: Addresses And Prayers at the Meetings of the Ev. Lutheran Joint Congregation of St. Louis, Mo., and Its Board of Elders by Dr. C.F.W. Walther" Translated by Rudolph Prange, CPH, St. Louis, MO. 1931, Page 11-14)

"By signing the constitution of our congregation, you have shown that you approve of it and have solemnly promised to abide by it. In the name of our congregation I welcome you as voting members. Permit me to add a few remarks.

Only that is a good deed which is prompted by proper motives and performed in a proper spirit. Alms, for example, are good deeds only when given out of love, not under pressure or merely to make people believe that you are a Christian. Diligence in our earthly calling is a good deed only when it issues from the desire to please God, who wills that we eat our daily bread in the sweat of the brow, and not because you wish to gain riches.

The same holds true with respect to joining a Christian congregation. That, too, is a good deed only if we do so because it is Christ's will that believers unite in proclaiming His Word, conducting public worship, and building and spreading His kingdom. The same step would be sinful if taken for the sake of earthly gain, as we read of Simon, the sorcerer, who joined the Christian congregation in Samaria to enrich himself in a material way. (Acts 8)

What has just been said holds true also in the case of those who unite with a truly Evangelical Lutheran congregation. Also this step is a good deed only if they wish to join such a congregation in preference to a congregation of another denomination because they are convinced that only the Evangelical Lutheran Church teaches the pure, unadulterated doctrine of God's Word. Were some one, however, to seek voting membership in a Lutheran congregation simply because he was born and reared in its midst, or to please his parents, or because his friends are members of that congregation, or because the location of its church makes it convenient to attend its services, he would not perform a good deed, even though God may have led him into that church for the purpose of making him a true Lutheran, in other words, an orthodox Christian.
What has been said emphasizes three factors that are essential in the make-up of a genuine member of a Lutheran congregation.

1. A genuine member of a Lutheran congregation must have a thorough understanding of pure Lutheran doctrine or at least must desire to grow in the knowledge of it. Such a one will imitate the Bereans in searching the Scriptures daily; he will not lay aside his Catechism when he has completed his elementary school-training, but throughout his life continue to review it in order that he may understand it better and become more thoroughly grounded in it. He will read other good orthodox books and periodicals to become ever more firmly established in the pure doctrine. Hebrews 5 those Christians who are neglectful in this point are censured. We read: "When for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God and are become such as have need of milk and not of strong meat."

2. A member of a Lutheran congregation must be able to defend his faith and to prove its correctness from God's Word. St. Peter writes, 1 Pet.3:15: "Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.' A sad state of affairs is revealed when members of a Lutheran congregation, asked about their faith, say, 'You will have to ask my pastor about that.'

3. A member of a Lutheran congregation should be able to distinguish pure doctrine from false doctrines. Only spineless Lutherans can say: 'What do I care about doctrinal controversies! They do not concern me in the least. I'll let those who are more learned than I am bother their heads about such matters.' They even may be offended when they observe that religious leaders engage in doctrinal disputes. A genuine Lutheran will not forget that in the Epistle of Jude also lay Christians are admonished 'earnestly to contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.' What is more, Christ warns all Christians: 'Beware of false prophets.' And St. John writes in his first epistle: 'Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world.' It is a settled fact that whoever is indifferent to false doctrine is indifferent also to pure doctrine and his soul's salvation and has no right to bear the name Lutheran and the name of Christ. "
 
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Studeclunker

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Well Rad, you have added again to my reading list. Thanks. This one looks like a zinger!:D I have heard that Walther cut no corners and was a pithy writer. What little of his work I've read supports this. Your quote makes this aspect quite clear;
Only spineless Lutherans can say: 'What do I care about doctrinal controversies! They do not concern me in the least. I'll let those who are more learned than I am bother their heads about such matters.' They even may be offended when they observe that religious leaders engage in doctrinal disputes...

It is a settled fact that whoever is indifferent to false doctrine is indifferent also to pure doctrine and his soul's salvation and has no right to bear the name Lutheran and the name of Christ.

Ouch! What a condemnation of the modern 'Lutheran Church' at large.:help: I speak of our own leadership in the LCMS and of the ELCA in general. Nevertheless it also condemns the remaining Lutheran church as she remains silent to the errors of her erring sisters.:swoon:

For those of you who are reading this thread and aren't Lutheran; the above quote from one of the early founders of the American Lutheran Church, explains to you why Lutherans in general are so very touchy about doctrine. It also explains why there is a Conservative and Liberal forum for this denomination. The two will NEVER see eye to eye. The above will tell you that there is no room whatever for Liberalism in the Lutheran church.
 
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DaRev

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For those of you who are reading this thread and aren't Lutheran; the above quote from one of the early founders of the American Lutheran Church,

Correction: Walther was not a founder of the American Lutheran Church, but of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. The ALC was a completely different church body. The ALC of 1960 was one of the three bodies that formed the ELCA.
 
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Studeclunker

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Correction: Walther was not a founder of the American Lutheran Church, but of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. The ALC was a completely different church body. The ALC of 1960 was one of the three bodies that formed the ELCA.

Sigh, that's the problem with the names that our different sects have chosen.:doh: My mistake, I wasn't clear enough:
I didn't mean that Walther had anything to do with the ALC (God help us all).:swoon: What I meant was that C.F.W. Walther was one of the founders of the churches founded here in the United States that bore the name 'Lutheran' in their names and doctrine.:scratch:
 
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BakaFidelis

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Bashing Christianity its very popular to day .But don't you think
it also causes people to want to know about what we believe and when they hear it many come to faith in Jesus their only savior to.

Christian bashing don't you think God works it out to be a good thing for some who hear the truth of Jesus.

*bashes rockytrails with a pillow* ... oh... wait... Am I in the wrong thread? oops *hides pillow*

*cough*

You are right. Scripture does tell us that God does work all things for the good of those who love Him. And that His word never comes back void but always accomplishes what He has set for it.

However, when someone bad mouths Christianity, there is no Word present and if there is, it is twisted like when Satan seduced Adam and Eve.

But we DO have the promise of God turning all to good for those that love him. It may very well interest someone enough to search God out. It is plausible and certainly within God's power to call someone to Him. It might strengthen our faith through adversity, or it may be something we will never know about. The good, that He works, is not always as visible.

As for taking public led prayer out of public school. To be honest, except for being a symptom of a moral decline, it actually is more relieving to me than not. It is all well and good if a conservative Lutheran leads the prayer. But what if say, a Baptist or Presbyterian led the prayer? At least they are Christian and are praying to the True God albeit in a opposing doctrine. Yet, it would get worse,for the Mormans and Islamists and other cults would definitely want "equal" time. Or it would go the way of the lodge and the prayer would be to a "supreme deity" to satisfy all religions. That is not something I would want any child to have to be made to bow down to such false gods.

This is a good example of just how God does turn the bad into a blessing.
 
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Tofferer

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The more I hear of the going ons of the ELCA, the happier I am that I got out. I may not be concerned about moving to Alaska anymore, but I may still have to go for up there for business. If so, then I have plans to attend an LCMS church while there, if I am up there for longer than a week.

Of course, let me also say that it wouldn't surprise me if part of the problem of "Christian Bashing" comes from a misunderstanding of the church and scripture coupled with a legacy of poorly qualified pastors and division within the church. When people see those things, they probably become suspicious or even outright untrusting of the church.
 
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RadMan

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The more I hear of the going ons of the ELCA, the happier I am that I got out. I may not be concerned about moving to Alaska anymore, but I may still have to go for up there for business. If so, then I have plans to attend an LCMS church while there, if I am up there for longer than a week.

Of course, let me also say that it wouldn't surprise me if part of the problem of "Christian Bashing" comes from a misunderstanding of the church and scripture coupled with a legacy of poorly qualified pastors and division within the church. When people see those things, they probably become suspicious or even outright untrusting of the church.
The media, especially the movies, goes a long way in picturing Christians as complete wackos. Makes us more apt to be targets.
 
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BakaFidelis

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Not to mention that the press loves it when a supposed Christian gets caught doing a crime of some sort.

There was a whole "expose" on I think it was Dateline a year or two back on "Christian Homeschooling" and the entire show was about criminals and nut-jobs who homeschooled to bad endings, all who claimed to be christian, which was a prominent feature of the show.
 
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Studeclunker

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Not to mention that the press loves it when a supposed Christian gets caught doing a crime of some sort.

There was a whole "expose" on I think it was Dateline a year or two back on "Christian Homeschooling" and the entire show was about criminals and nut-jobs who homeschooled to bad endings, all who claimed to be christian, which was a prominent feature of the show.

It wasn't so much Christianity that they were probably attacking. The media hates home schooling and private schools. They support the teacher's union and public schooling and the system with it's bureaucracy. Datline has always been a staunch supporter of government controll of education.
 
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BakaFidelis

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It wasn't so much Christianity that they were probably attacking. The media hates home schooling and private schools. They support the teacher's union and public schooling and the system with it's bureaucracy. Datline has always been a staunch supporter of government controll of education.

You are right, it WAS about the homeschooling aspect of it. But it seemed very gleeful when they very pointedly made continued reference to their "christian" lifestyle. It was just icing on their cake.

Drugs, abuse, guns...

Yep that is what every homeschool and every Christian is all about! heh
 
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