Christian and Secular psychological models

[dms1972]

I wasn't sure were was best to post this but the mental health forums are not for theoretical discussions, so I decided to put it in here.

I recently have been talking to a counsellor who uses a counselling approach called IFS - Internal Family Systems. I have been reading a bit about it online (if you do a search there is a website call selfleadership) and thinking about its compatiblity with a christian outlook, view of man. In very brief summary IFS is a synthesis of Systems thinking and Multipicity of mind theories. As a psychological theory it posits the existence of a true self, and many sub-personalities in each individual and seeks to bring balance and harmony by restoring the true-self to central control and stablising these sub-personalities which are in various modes of operating - extreme, normal, and carrying out different functions.

According to IFS when one's true self is ordering ones life - and differentiated from the sub-personalities - it is relaxed, secure, confident, self assured, competent.

The various subpersonalities may be in extreme or normal functioning.

Problems arise for people when sub-personalities attempt take over control from the true-self, and therapy attempts to restore harmony and bring sub-personalities back from extremes.

Ok - thats very brief - and some of it sounds quite plausible to me - but I got to thinking of whether its a way a christian could view themselves?

Would be interested therefore if anyone wants to comment, if they see parallels or contrasts with christian views of personal development.

 

[dysert]

My initial thought is, short of someone having psychosis, I don't accept that there are sub-personalities. (Though I guess it depends on how you define the term.)

 

[dms1972]

He may be describing something to do with dissociation, but I have my reservations / doubts about aspects of his theory also.

there is more detail here.

http://www.selfleadership.org/outline-of-the-Internal-family-systems-model.html

 

[dysert]

He may be describing something to do with dissociation, but I have my reservations / doubts about aspects of his theory also.

there is more detail here.

http://www.selfleadership.org/outline-of-the-Internal-family-systems-model.html

I just went through much of the Outline. I think the guy is "out there". He must have been under pressure to come up with a paper or something.

 

[dms1972]

Thanks for taking the time to read that - it's a bit concerning - as it does seem to be used in practice - though I don't know how widely, and would constitute the approach used in counselling for me. The counsellor I mentioned is a christian and I don't think he adheres strictly to the model, but I began to think of problems that could arise with it.

I am not an expert on counselling, but I do like to know what approach is being used if I go.

 

[dysert]

thats a bit concerning - as it does seem to be used in practice - though I don't know how widely, and would constitute the approach used in counselling for me. The counsellor I mentioned is a christian and I don't think he adheres strictly to the model, but I began to think of problems that could arise with it.

I am not an expert on counselling, but I do like to know what approach is being used if I go.

I'm no expert either, even though I went through a half dozen counselors before finding a good one. I think you're smart to know the approach that will be taken. From this guy's writing I'd be checking out some others.

 

[dms1972]

How does he strike you, when you say "out there" - do you mean 'new age' spirituality?

Its not easy to find a counsellor and I sympathise, I have been to a few over the years myself. Each time I am not sure if its me or the counsellor, or the theory they follow.

 

[dysert]

How does he strike you, when you say "out there" - do you mean 'new age' spirituality?

Its not easy to find a counsellor and I sympathise, I have been to a few over the years myself. Each time I am not sure if its me or the counsellor, or the theory they follow.

Maybe new age. I was thinking he's just not in the mainstream of psychotherapy as I understand it (and after countless hours and many hundreds of dollars I think I understand it pretty well).

Of all the times that I've gone to a "bad" counselor I never thought it might be me. After all, they're the ones who are supposedly trained to deal with people like me. So it's either them or their philosophy. In either case, if it isn't a good fit it really doesn't matter. Find someone else.

 

[Job8]

Ok - thats very brief - and some of it sounds quite plausible to me - but I got to thinking of whether its a way a christian could view themselves?

I don't believe sub-personalities is a valid explanation. For the Christian you have the *flesh* vs the spirit. However the flesh manifests itself, it is one entity.

 

[LabradorianSavedbyGrace]

Finding the right counselor for you might be more important than their guiding philosophy, but as a Christian you may be better finding a Christian counselor who shares similar beliefs and values. If there are none in your local area have you considered finding an online service? There are several out there and some offer free counselling for a limited time (such as this website http://www.newlifecoachinc.org/) so that may be of more benefit to you. Hope you find the right fit

 

[dms1972]

thanks for your suggestions - i think it takes someone who isn't harnessed to a particular method, psychological theory etc.

 

[dms1972]

what does the 'flesh' mean in scripture?


how should a christian counsellor proceed with a non christian counsellee, or backsliden christian?

i went to a another counsellor some years ago, a christian, and asked about his approach and he told me if he counselled christians he incrporated an element of dicipleship in the counselling, if it was a non christian he said he used Freudian Analysis. Distance prohibited me continuing to see him at the time, but it got me thinking about counselling approaches, and reading a bit on the topic. I think there is some truth inn psychology, but its mixed with errors. one writter on the subject, Karl Stern, thought the theories of Freud could be made neutral and some of his insights used by christians.

but generally i find it difficult to trust that even christians know what they are doing.

I agree it has an awful lot to do with the counsellor themself, some people may have a good deal of psychological knowledge but it does mean they are competent to counsel.

I cant work up much confidence in this IFS thing, i have a fairly critical mind. it doesn't seem to be based in reality.

 

[dysert]

If you don't mind counseling via telephone I'd be glad to give you the name & number of my counselor. She's the best I've found and is a Christian. She charges $125/hour. PM me if you want her info.

 

[thesunisout]

Would be interested therefore if anyone wants to comment, if they see parallels or contrasts with christian views of personal development.

Hey brother, there are definitely reasons to seek out counseling, just make sure the counselor follows the Lord and believes the bible. Otherwise you will be getting all manner of ungodly, and strange advice. I work in deliverance ministry and I see some rough concepts taken from certain theories about deliverance in your post, but nothing concrete..nothing based on Gods word. There are no human systems which can give you a new weapon to fight the spiritual battle we are all in the midst of. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God for the pulling down of strongholds. Here are a couple of good teachings about depression and how to fight the spiritual battle:

The struggle for man is not to know himself, it is to die to himself. We must lose our lives to save them, which means letting go of the past and the old man, and embracing the new man, the new life we have in Jesus Christ. The fount of living waters comes to a heart that is open to Him, and that is where all real healing begins. God doesn't expect you to understand how your mind works; He wants to renew your mind instead. Gods prescription for mental health is found in 2 Timothy 1:7:

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

 

[dms1972]

Hey brother, there are definitely reasons to seek out counseling, just make sure the counselor follows the Lord and believes the bible. Otherwise you will be getting all manner of ungodly, and strange advice. I work in deliverance ministry and I see some rough concepts taken from certain theories about deliverance in your post, but nothing concrete..nothing based on Gods word. There are no human systems which can give you a new weapon to fight the spiritual battle we are all in the midst of. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God for the pulling down of strongholds. Here are a couple of good teachings about depression and how to fight the spiritual battle:

Thankyou for your comments

Re what you said about deliverance.

I don' t really know any much about this, or what is going on if someone is acting under influence of demons.

And the term itself "demon" is often used in different ways, for instance "facing your 'demons'." I suspect thats just an idiom, but it given me a bit of trouble in the past. What does it mean, when said like that.

I was wondering also what happens if a non christian counsellor, counsels someone who, in christian terms is demonised? The secular, or non christian counsellor doesn't have the same view of things.
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Do they then just see demon oppression in terms of imbalances in the personality?

my difficulty is that i am doubting a lot whether i am a genuine christian or if i am just a christian on my own understanding of things, if i could stop thinking, trying to figure out whats wrong it might be a start. When i go for counselling i don't know how to explain whats wrong, how to present the problem.

 

[dms1972]

If you don't mind counseling via telephone I'd be glad to give you the name & number of my counselor. She's the best I've found and is a Christian. She charges $125/hour. PM me if you want her info.

Thankyou for the kind offer, but as I am in the UK it would not be practical.

 

[thesunisout]

my difficulty is that i am doubting a lot whether i am a genuine christian or if i am just a christian on my own understanding of things, if i could stop thinking, trying to figure out whats wrong it might be a start. When i go for counselling i don't know how to explain whats wrong, how to present the problem.

To solve spiritual problems you must have a relationship with God, because without Him we are blind to what is going on in reality. It requires discernment and wisdom from above, and godly character traits, to be able to help someone through a spiritual issue. You have to be sensitive to the guiding of the Holy Spirit. You are right in that they would see any and every spiritual problem as applying to their model of the human psyche. Their model however does not address the fact that man is a spiritual being and has a soul, and even if they did, if they were advising anything other than biblical Christianity, it would still be ultimately useless and even dangerous.

Let me ask you, regarding your doubts, when were you converted? As a young child, or later in life? Another question, has following the Lord Jesus Christ changed you at all?

 

[dms1972]

Still trying to figure out if this would be helpful, or not . I listened to an interview with the guy on youtube (link below). He says he done Trancendental Meditation for eight years, before going on to study family therapy. I don't find it particularly convincing, though some find it helpful. but i am begininfg to think it seems on a level with other stuff like Ekhart Tolle, and the kind of people that appear on Ophra Winfrey. I was into some of that stuff years ago, Marianne Williamson , and was wowed by her praying on Ophra, thought her book would solve all my problems. It was just another varient of new age spirituality.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...143BEA5505CDB8D6E502143BEA5505CDB&FORM=VRDGAR

 

[dms1972]

To solve spiritual problems you must have a relationship with God, because without Him we are blind to what is going on in reality. It requires discernment and wisdom from above, and godly character traits, to be able to help someone through a spiritual issue. You have to be sensitive to the guiding of the Holy Spirit. You are right in that they would see any and every spiritual problem as applying to their model of the human psyche. Their model however does not address the fact that man is a spiritual being and has a soul, and even if they did, if they were advising anything other than biblical Christianity, it would still be ultimately useless and even dangerous.

Let me ask you, regarding your doubts, when were you converted? As a young child, or later in life? Another question, has following the Lord Jesus Christ changed you at all?

sorry i had not seen this post. I have never been sure about my conversion, I can't really go into detail here however, ive had struggles, and uncertainty from a young age.

 

[thesunisout]

sorry i had not seen this post. I have never been sure about my conversion, I can't really go into detail here however, ive had struggles, and uncertainty from a young age.

Well, I can't tell you what your experience should be. I know that I know the Lord, and I know this because He has revealed Himself to me. Some people don't have that level of certainty, but are still saved. It sounds like faith is your struggle, but Jesus promised if we had faith as small as a mustard seed, we would say move and the mountain would move. So, you have a little faith and a mountain of unbelief. Tell the mountain to move, and cry out to God. Literally tell your unbelief to leave you and ask God to increase your faith. Pray for Him to bring you into a real, personal living relationship with His Son Jesus Christ. Ask Him to open up the Heavens and pour out the fount of living waters upon your heart and life. If you believe that you are a sinner in need of a Savior, and that God sent Jesus to pay for your sins on a cross and raised Him from the dead on the third day, then you have the foundational beliefs of salvation.

I'll give you something you can do. Get a sheet of paper and write John 3:16 at the top

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Write this below it:

God, according to your word I believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and I confess Him as my Lord. I believe that He paid for my sin on the cross and that you raised Him from the dead. Please help me turn away from all sin in my life. Please speak to me as a Father would to his child, and teach me how to walk with you today. Please give me assurance of my salvation. Please make your Son Jesus Christ real to me. Take this unbelief away from me and increase my faith I pray, in Jesus name.

Put it somewhere where you can see it every day and speak the scripture out loud, and then pray the rest to God. After you've prayed, remain patient and wait on the Lord. If you don't see anything that day, don't let that shake your resolve. The Lord calls us to wait upon Him patiently, and with the expectation that He will answer your prayer. Do this faithfully for a month and then get back to us here and let us know what the Lord has done in your life. I'll be praying for you and I am sure the people in this thread will be too.