Christian/7th Day Adventist Relationship Advice-Help!

[sweetpsalmist]

Hi, I'm new, and need some solid Christian opinions with advice on my situation. Thank you for having me. Forgive me in advance if I offend anyone with my views.

I am a single Christian man who is speaking to another single Seventh Day Adventist woman that lives in another country. I am just a bible reading, church going Christian with adventist background beliefs, but not so much now since I've studied and been more exposed to the gospel. We are both committed to moral standards: no premarital relations or even kiss until we are married, and a will to serve Jesus will all our hearts. She is an amazing, beautiful person, and I plan on making a committed step to see her soon. I would not even be speaking to her without the intent for marriage, and the feeling is mutual. It was hard enough to find a Jesus loving woman with these same standards that also match my unique personality needs, and I match hers as well.

I respect her views, and even would go to church with her, rest with her on that day, supporting her walk with Christ, even though I do not hold the same views. We have somewhat debated (i know its not good) the meaning of what the Sabbath means. I used to believe like her, so I respect her in her current position. But I now, after studying the gospel/Paul's writings for some time think differently on such matters of Law, and understand it to be a rest from legalistic works, (aka the 4th commandment), not a physical day of the week. I used to be a saturday sabbath keeper, and wouldn't even attend church because I could not find a Saturday church service. I was also under a life of extreme legalism (dietary and spiritual), serious bondage to sin, guilt, and condemnation. I feel set free now, regularly attend a normal church service, and the bondage chains to certain sins have broken away by God's grace as I understand the gospel better. Thank you Jesus.

The problem is she is extremely legalistic, under that same bondage of guilt condemnation (when she fails to keep the sabbath "properly") and want me to be back under that same system. Does a butterfly change back to a caterpillar? As far as children goes, it's her way or the highway. She wants to raise them SDA, and be the governing spiritual authority in the household. Both I feel are unbiblical. I don't mind resting with her and worshiping God on Saturday, but I feel this will turn my children down the wrong path. We have so much in common, other than this, and have serious emotions for each other. She is extremely saddened that I don't want to be SDA, but won't give up trying to convert me. The basis of this post is...should I convert to SDA for her?? Please forgive me if I have offended any SDA or other members and would appreciate your views. Thank you very much.

 

[Albion]

I don't think we can answer that for you on a discussion board, but the situation is a very common one that probably needs to have you two working it out in some sort of Christian counselling. Of course, she thinks you can come back to the faith, since you had been Adventist before, so she's not likely to give up her expectations and hopes very easily.

Good luck. I hope you find a way to reach a solution without anyone going against his conscience. Many inter-faith marriages do work out well without one side or the other simply knuckling under.

 

[High Fidelity]

Hi, I'm new, and need some solid Christian opinions with advice on my situation. Thank you for having me. Forgive me in advance if I offend anyone with my views.

I am a single Christian man who is speaking to another single Seventh Day Adventist woman that lives in another country. I am just a bible reading, church going Christian with adventist background beliefs, but not so much now since I've studied and been more exposed to the gospel. We are both committed to moral standards: no premarital relations or even kiss until we are married, and a will to serve Jesus will all our hearts. She is an amazing, beautiful person, and I plan on making a committed step to see her soon. I would not even be speaking to her without the intent for marriage, and the feeling is mutual. It was hard enough to find a Jesus loving woman with these same standards that also match my unique personality needs, and I match hers as well.

I respect her views, and even would go to church with her, rest with her on that day, supporting her walk with Christ, even though I do not hold the same views. We have somewhat debated (i know its not good) the meaning of what the Sabbath means. I used to believe like her, so I respect her in her current position. But I now, after studying the gospel/Paul's writings for some time think differently on such matters of Law, and understand it to be a rest from legalistic works, (aka the 4th commandment), not a physical day of the week. I used to be a saturday sabbath keeper, and wouldn't even attend church because I could not find a Saturday church service. I was also under a life of extreme legalism (dietary and spiritual), serious bondage to sin, guilt, and condemnation. I feel set free now, regularly attend a normal church service, and the bondage chains to certain sins have broken away by God's grace as I understand the gospel better. Thank you Jesus.

The problem is she is extremely legalistic, under that same bondage of guilt condemnation (when she fails to keep the sabbath "properly") and want me to be back under that same system. Does a butterfly change back to a caterpillar? As far as children goes, it's her way or the highway. She wants to raise them SDA, and be the governing spiritual authority in the household. Both I feel are unbiblical. I don't mind resting with her and worshiping God on Saturday, but I feel this will turn my children down the wrong path. We have so much in common, other than this, and have serious emotions for each other. She is extremely saddened that I don't want to be SDA, but won't give up trying to convert me. The basis of this post is...should I convert to SDA for her?? Please forgive me if I have offended any SDA or other members and would appreciate your views. Thank you very much.

Ultimately you will be the spiritual head of your marriage and home as her husband if you were to get married. Ask yourself if you will be able to lead your wife if there are radically different theologies at play? How are you supposed to teach her and build her up in Christ if she isn't picking up what you're putting down?

Theological differences are an incredibly important consideration for any Christian marriage.

You may like her as a person but ultimately you're probably incompatible. And that's fine.

As for if you should convert for her. Absolutely not. Your salvation is not a package deal. Going to the right church, belonging to the 'right' denomination will not save you and at the end of the day, it's your walk.

It sounds like it's best to part ways in a romantic sense.

For what it's worth, I am glad Scripture enlightened you with regards to SDA

 

[Basil the Great]

While the problem you describe still exists today, it is not nearly as common as it was prior to Vatican II, when the Catholic Church use to require non-Catholics to sign a form agreeing to have the children raised Catholic. We cannot tell you what to do. You must decide this for yourself. Albion is right, as he usually is. Inter-faith marriages can work, especially in this day and age when people tend to be more tolerant than they were in ages past. The two of you need to carefully think this through and probably seek counseling. I am no expert on the Seventh Day Adventists, but based upon what I know, I would not overly worry about the children being raised in said denomination, but you know more about it than I do. Now if she requires that you join and you simply cannot do so, then you have a major problem.

 

[AGTG]

The Bible forbids willfully entering into a serious relationship with anyone who is not a born again believer.

2 Cor. 6:14-15
14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?


Also, legalism is the fastest route to spiritual death (if this person was ever born again to begin with).

Galatians 5:4
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[Blade]

A man.. Christan man.. in a 3rd world nation. Lol.. had Jesus on one side and BUDDHA on the other. This is NOT the way it always works out.. but she got saved some time later. He never force her.. never shoved in on her but he was very happy the day Buddha got handed his papers to leave.

Now.. I can only speak for me.. what matters to me is "did Jesus come in the flesh? Did Jesus die for the worlds sins was buried? Did Jesus rise from the dead and is the only way to the Father?"

If this was a Muslim that did not believe Jesus rose and is the only way to the Father.. I would .. not be in that relationship. My self.. from what I understand..and as long as you are honest with her. Don't force your personal beliefs on her or anyone for that matter. As long as she knows YOU and you know HER..and JESUS IS LORD. So for some things EACH group believes.. its YESHUA.. is He the ONLY DOOR? Is there OTHER ways to get to Him? Jesus.. only way.

Now.. not sure why your asking MAN/WOMAN. GOD does not listen to what we say about your choice here. If you were to ask HIM... He would say "what do you want?" You KNOW in your heart. I think these questions come 2nd..should be a clue. Again.. if JESUS is lord.. the only way.. Make sure THAT is known.. and that THAT WILL NOT CHANGE. So.. this is YOUR LIFE not ANYONES here so PLEASE remember.. to NOT GET IN GODS WAY. Our feelings in this ....

You got this.. have fun.. put Jesus 1st..and.. ENJOY LIFE! .. with HER if you want..or not

 

[sweetpsalmist]

Thank you all very much for your opinions and advice, it has helped me. Please keep them coming if there's anyone else. I just wanted an outside perspective other than my own. "The fool's way is right in his own eyes, but the wise seek counsel." Thank you friends.

 

[discipler7]

The problem is she is extremely legalistic, under that same bondage of guilt condemnation (when she fails to keep the sabbath "properly") and want me to be back under that same system.

.
GALATIANS.2: says, "14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
.
.

ACTS.15: says, "23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell."

 

[JIMINZ]

Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Gal 5:1-9
1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8) This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9) A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

It's all about your Faith.
God Bless

 

[sweetpsalmist]

Great scriptural examples, thank you guys, agree 100%. I pointed these same examples to her to no avail. People only see what they want to see sometimes, and can't see what they're not looking for. I'm almost to the point where I just want peace and am willing sacrifice my pride instead of being right and just give in, ugg.

We are both "know it all" personalities so its difficult. I really appreciate the examples and advice given. Pray for me!! Lol, God bless

 

[Soyeong]

Hi, I'm new, and need some solid Christian opinions with advice on my situation. Thank you for having me. Forgive me in advance if I offend anyone with my views.

I am a single Christian man who is speaking to another single Seventh Day Adventist woman that lives in another country. I am just a bible reading, church going Christian with adventist background beliefs, but not so much now since I've studied and been more exposed to the gospel. We are both committed to moral standards: no premarital relations or even kiss until we are married, and a will to serve Jesus will all our hearts. She is an amazing, beautiful person, and I plan on making a committed step to see her soon. I would not even be speaking to her without the intent for marriage, and the feeling is mutual. It was hard enough to find a Jesus loving woman with these same standards that also match my unique personality needs, and I match hers as well.

I respect her views, and even would go to church with her, rest with her on that day, supporting her walk with Christ, even though I do not hold the same views. We have somewhat debated (i know its not good) the meaning of what the Sabbath means. I used to believe like her, so I respect her in her current position. But I now, after studying the gospel/Paul's writings for some time think differently on such matters of Law, and understand it to be a rest from legalistic works, (aka the 4th commandment), not a physical day of the week. I used to be a saturday sabbath keeper, and wouldn't even attend church because I could not find a Saturday church service. I was also under a life of extreme legalism (dietary and spiritual), serious bondage to sin, guilt, and condemnation. I feel set free now, regularly attend a normal church service, and the bondage chains to certain sins have broken away by God's grace as I understand the gospel better. Thank you Jesus.

The problem is she is extremely legalistic, under that same bondage of guilt condemnation (when she fails to keep the sabbath "properly") and want me to be back under that same system. Does a butterfly change back to a caterpillar? As far as children goes, it's her way or the highway. She wants to raise them SDA, and be the governing spiritual authority in the household. Both I feel are unbiblical. I don't mind resting with her and worshiping God on Saturday, but I feel this will turn my children down the wrong path. We have so much in common, other than this, and have serious emotions for each other. She is extremely saddened that I don't want to be SDA, but won't give up trying to convert me. The basis of this post is...should I convert to SDA for her?? Please forgive me if I have offended any SDA or other members and would appreciate your views. Thank you very much.

Hello,

As someone who grew up as a Baptist and spent most of my life as one, who has in recent years become persuaded that Paul was fully in favor of us keeping God's Law, it pains me to see someone going in the opposite direction. A big part of what led me to change my views was reading the Psalms, especially Psalms 119, and realizing that the idea that the Law was somehow legalistic bondage would have never crossed his mind. David said he loved God's Law, that he delighted in obeying it, that he meditated on it day and night, that those who obey it will be blessed, that he wanted God to show His grace to him by teaching him to obey it, that he walked about in liberty because of it, etc, and Paul also delighted in obeying it (Romans 7:22), so he and other Jews were on the same page as David, but I was not, and now you are not. If the Psalms are Scripture and all Scripture is God-breathed, then they express a correct view of God's Law, which means that the view that I had been taught of the Law being legalistic bondage is contrary to Scripture and meant that my view needed to change.

If I am being legalistic by obeying God's Law, then God is legalistic for commanding it to obeyed, and I am therefore in good company. However, I would not consider Jesus to be legalistic even though he lived in perfect obedience to the Law and taught his followers how to obey it by word and by example, nor would I consider someone to be legalistic for thinking that all the 1,050 commands in the NT should be obeyed, nor for thinking that all of the laws of their country should be obeyed. So legalism is not in regard to whether someone thinks that one or many laws should be obeyed, but rather it refers to the manner in which they obey them, where they are focused on keeping the Law according to the letter exactly how it is written without regard to its intent or the spirit of the Law. For example, someone would be legalistic who is trying to become justified by obeying the Law even though it was never given for that purpose. Furthermore, it doesn't follow that because we shouldn't obey the Law for a purpose for which it was never given that therefore we shouldn't follow it for the purposes for which it was given.

If you have such a low opinion of God's Law that you consider it to be bondage, then how does that not reflect rather negatively on your opinion of the Lawgiver? Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17, 23), and the Law is how his audience knew what sin was, so repenting from our disobedience to God's Law is an integral part of the Gospel message, so I do not see how a better understanding of the Gospel can lead you to feeling free to do the things that God revealed to be sin and away from repentance. The freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin, while it is sin in transgression of God's Law that is what puts us in bondage. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Christ gave himself to free us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness, so we should not return to the Lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

According to Psalm 119:29, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do things which are all in accordance with the Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license for immorality. According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it straightforwardly takes the form of obedience to His commands, so God shows His grace to us by teaching us how to walk in His ways as revealed through His Law, which means that rejecting God's Sabbath is rejecting one of the ways that God showed His grace to David.

I don't agree with SDAs on everything, but keeping the Sabbath and kashrut in accordance with Christ's example are two areas where I think they are on the right page. I now find it difficult to fathom that people actually think that they way to follow Christ is to reject the Law that he followed and taught by word and by example. However, if you can't become convinced that SDAs are correct, then I think that would throw kinks in your eventual plans for marriage. Converting SDA while you do not think it to be true would call your own integrity into question and would breed resentment, so I wouldn't recommend it, though I would recommend considering whether you have made the correct decision in rejecting SDA. This is not to say that things can't work out, but they may be more difficult. The purpose of going to church is to love God and our neighbor and the purpose of all of God's commands is to teach us how to do that, so no command is intended to cause us to do something that is contrary to loving God and our neighbor. As such, I think you were missing the point of the Sabbath and that it would be more important to attend church on Sunday than to attend nothing at all.

 

[discipler7]

I don't agree with SDAs on everything, but keeping the Sabbath and kashrut in accordance with Christ's example are two areas where I think they are on the right page.

Disagree.
.
It is a burden for most ordinary working Gentile Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, as per Moses Law, which is what the SDA requires.

Since the days of the Holy Roman Empire, in most Christianized Western countries/kingdoms, the weekly Sabbath or rest day has been changed to Sunday. So, the Gentile Christian Sabbath has been on Sunday, ie the whole day beginning from sunrise.
... It is regressive for the SDA to revert to the Jewish Sabbath day = compelling a Gentile to be like a Jew. SDA = like the Judaizers of GALATIANS.2:9-17.

In Genesis, God worked for 6 days in creation and rested on the 7th or Sabbath day. The Sabbath law in EXODUS.20 was a memorial to what God did and it is also good and healthy for Man to rest from his work one day per week.
... It is not a burden for a Gentile Christian to keep the Sabbath or rest day on Sunday or on any other day that is convenient to him/her, eg a factory shift worker, policeman, doctor, etc.

OTOH, it is a sin for a pastor to require his ordinary Christian members to run errands and do Church work on Sunday Sabbath which is their rest day.
... Pastors only do real work on Sundays.
.

P S - Only in Israel, is the weekly rest day from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. In many Muslim countries, the weekly rest day is the whole of Friday.

 

[Soyeong]

Great scriptural examples, thank you guys, agree 100%. I pointed these same examples to her to no avail. People only see what they want to see sometimes, and can't see what they're not looking for. I'm almost to the point where I just want peace and am willing sacrifice my pride instead of being right and just give in, ugg.

We are both "know it all" personalities so its difficult. I really appreciate the examples and advice given. Pray for me!! Lol, God bless

A large part of confusion of about what is said about laws in the Bible stems from the fact that people don't distinguish between which law is being talked about. For example, in Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, this requirement is found nowhere in God's Law. While all Jews were certainly required to become circumcised, not even they were required to do so in order to become saved, so if God did not require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, then the Jerusalem Council was upholding God's Law by rejecting a man-made requirement.

The issue was that during the 1st century, there existed a large body of Jewish oral laws and traditions that they taught people needed to obey in order to become saved. These oral laws and traditions were supplementary instructions for how they taught to obey the Mosaic Law and they even went to so far as to say that you couldn't correctly obey the Mosaic Law without knowing their oral laws. So it is important to recognize that much about what is said about laws in the NT is in regard to the role of these oral laws.

For example, in Matthew 15:2-3, Jesus was asked by his disciples broke the traditions of the elders and he responded by asking them why they broke the commands of God for the sake of their tradition. He went on to say that for the sake of their tradition they made void the Word of God (Matthew 15:6), that they worshiped God in vain because they taught as doctrines the commands of men (Matthew 15:8-9), and that they were hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions (Mark 7:6-9), so Jesus criticized them for not following the Mosaic Law and for teaching their own traditions in place of it. So what we consider to be the Mosaic Law and what they considered to be it are very different. In Matthew 23:2-4, Jesus was certainly not criticizing the Pharisees for teaching the people to obey what God had commanded them to do, but rather he was referring to these oral laws as placing a heavy burden on the people. The same conflict that was between Jesus and the Pharisees continued between his followers and the Pharisees, so in Acts 15:10, they were simply expressing the same opinion of Jewish oral laws that Jesus had expressed. In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that what He commanded was not too difficult for us, so if they had been referring to the Mosaic Law, then they would have been in direct disagreement with God. So we need to be careful not to take something that was only against man-made laws as being against obeying the commands of the God that we serve.

 

[Soyeong]

Disagree.
.
It is a burden for most ordinary working Gentile Christians to keep the Jewish Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, as per Moses Law, which is what the SDA requires.

According to 1 John 5:3, the commands of God are not burdensome, so there is not a single command of God that you can point to as being too burdensome to obey, and to try to do so is to declare that this verse is false and that God lied in Deuteronomy 30:11-14.

Since the days of the Holy Roman Empire, in most Christianized Western countries/kingdoms, the weekly Sabbath or rest day has been changed to Sunday. So, the Gentile Christian Sabbath has been on Sunday, ie the whole day beginning from sunrise.

We must obey God rather than man, so when God says to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day and Rome says to keep it on the 1st day, then you have a choice to make about who has the higher authority and whether you a follower of God or of Rome. As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord, not Rome, so there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath.

... It is regressive for the SDA to revert to the Jewish Sabbath day = compelling a Gentile to be like a Jew. SDA = like the Judaizers of GALATIANS.2:9-17.

SDAs do not teach that Gentiles need to become Jewish proselytes and to live as Jews according to all of their oral laws in order to become saved, so they are not like Judaizers. According Leviticus 23:2, they are God's appointed festivals, so there is no Jewish Sabbath or Gentile Sabbath - there is only God's Sabbath. There are many verses that speak about the Mosaic Law as being God's instructions for how to walk in His ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, so it is not instructions for how to act like a Jew, but rather it is God's instructions to His followers for how walk in God's ways and to reflect His attributes. For example, in 1 Peter 1:13-16 says that we are to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus, so following God's instructions therein for how to have a holy conduct is not about acting like a Jew, but about acting in accordance with the holiness of our God. It is relatively straightforward that keeping God's holy days is part of what it means to have a holy conduct.

In Genesis, God worked for 6 days in creation and rested on the 7th or Sabbath day. The Sabbath law in EXODUS.20 was a memorial to what God did and it is also good and healthy for Man to rest from his work one day per week.

The problem is that God did not command us to take one day of rest per week, so at this point you're either going have faith in God about which day to rest on or you are going to do what is right in your own eyes.

... It is not a burden for a Gentile Christian to keep the Sabbath or rest day on Sunday or on any other day that is convenient to him/her, eg a factory shift worker, policeman, doctor, etc.

It is completely absurd to consider a day of rest to be burdensome.

OTOH, it is a sin for a pastor to require his ordinary Christian members to run errands and do Church work on Sunday Sabbath which is their rest day.
... Pastors only do real work on Sundays.

According to Deuteronomy 4:2, it is sin to add to or subtract from what God has commanded, so you are sinning by saying that it is a sin for a pastor to do that and you need to repent.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Hi, I'm new, and need some solid Christian opinions with advice on my situation. Thank you for having me. Forgive me in advance if I offend anyone with my views.

I am a single Christian man who is speaking to another single Seventh Day Adventist woman that lives in another country. I am just a bible reading, church going Christian with adventist background beliefs, but not so much now since I've studied and been more exposed to the gospel. We are both committed to moral standards: no premarital relations or even kiss until we are married, and a will to serve Jesus will all our hearts. She is an amazing, beautiful person, and I plan on making a committed step to see her soon. I would not even be speaking to her without the intent for marriage, and the feeling is mutual. It was hard enough to find a Jesus loving woman with these same standards that also match my unique personality needs, and I match hers as well.

I respect her views, and even would go to church with her, rest with her on that day, supporting her walk with Christ, even though I do not hold the same views. We have somewhat debated (i know its not good) the meaning of what the Sabbath means. I used to believe like her, so I respect her in her current position. But I now, after studying the gospel/Paul's writings for some time think differently on such matters of Law, and understand it to be a rest from legalistic works, (aka the 4th commandment), not a physical day of the week. I used to be a saturday sabbath keeper, and wouldn't even attend church because I could not find a Saturday church service. I was also under a life of extreme legalism (dietary and spiritual), serious bondage to sin, guilt, and condemnation. I feel set free now, regularly attend a normal church service, and the bondage chains to certain sins have broken away by God's grace as I understand the gospel better. Thank you Jesus.

The problem is she is extremely legalistic, under that same bondage of guilt condemnation (when she fails to keep the sabbath "properly") and want me to be back under that same system. Does a butterfly change back to a caterpillar? As far as children goes, it's her way or the highway. She wants to raise them SDA, and be the governing spiritual authority in the household. Both I feel are unbiblical. I don't mind resting with her and worshiping God on Saturday, but I feel this will turn my children down the wrong path. We have so much in common, other than this, and have serious emotions for each other. She is extremely saddened that I don't want to be SDA, but won't give up trying to convert me. The basis of this post is...should I convert to SDA for her?? Please forgive me if I have offended any SDA or other members and would appreciate your views. Thank you very much.

When Jesus healed on the sabbath, the same holy legalistic phaorasies try to judge Jesus for it. He is lord of the sabbath and said if one of your flock fell down a well on the sabbath, would you not attend to its rescue until the following day.
One can look at this in two ways,
First,
Any day is a day to rescue someone in danger of losing its life. So are we too not to preach the gospel because it's the sabbath? No for tomorrow could be too late.
Secondly,
Since Jesus is Lord over the sabbath, and we are to follow in his footsteps, we must keep the sabbath holy everyday. Not just on a Saturday or as some choose, Sunday. What about mon, tues, wed, thur, and fri.. is it ok to work for Gods kingdom those days and not on the sabbath??
That was the purpose of this scripture. We are to rest from our works once a week, that's our physical work in which we do. For some it's the week day others the weekend. Everyday is a good day to save a soul or just as its illustrated by the calf who fell down the well.

The calf is us sinners
The rescuer is Jesus
The well is the pits of hell and sin
Waiting another day could Could let the calf die in the well
Sabbath thrown out the window for the sake of a helpless sinner in need
The phariciess are the enemy coming against Gods will
They also try to use Gods law against Him
It didn't work because He is the lord over the sabbath and they mis interpret what keeping the sabbath holy really means.

 

[Soyeong]

When Jesus healed on the sabbath, the same holy legalistic phaorasies try to judge Jesus for it. He is lord of the sabbath and said if one of your flock fell down a well on the sabbath, would you not attend to its rescue until the following day.
One can look at this in two ways,
First,
Any day is a day to rescue someone in danger of losing its life. So are we too not to preach the gospel because it's the sabbath? No for tomorrow could be too late.
Secondly,
Since Jesus is Lord over the sabbath, and we are to follow in his footsteps, we must keep the sabbath holy everyday. Not just on a Saturday or as some choose, Sunday. What about mon, tues, wed, thur, and fri.. is it ok to work for Gods kingdom those days and not on the sabbath??
That was the purpose of this scripture. We are to rest from our works once a week, that's our physical work in which we do. For some it's the week day others the weekend. Everyday is a good day to save a soul or just as its illustrated by the calf who fell down the well.

The calf is us sinners
The rescuer is Jesus
The well is the pits of hell and sin
Waiting another day could Could let the calf die in the well
Sabbath thrown out the window for the sake of a helpless sinner in need
The phariciess are the enemy coming against Gods will
They also try to use Gods law against Him
It didn't work because He is the lord over the sabbath and they mis interpret what keeping the sabbath holy really means.

There are a number of God's laws that appear to contract each other, such as what happens when someone wanted to obey the command to circumcise their baby on the eighth day and it happened to fall on the Sabbath. However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commands was never intended to prevent the other command from being obeyed, and in this case, the Sabbath was never intended to prevent circumcision on the 8th day. So some people thought (most likely of the house of Shammai) that because healing was work and the Sabbath prohibited doing work that therefore it was unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, whereas Jesus ruled that it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so it was never intended to prevent the work of healing. In general no command was intended to be used as an excuse to avoid obeying the greatest two commands.

Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example to walk in obedience to the Law, follow of how to correctly keep the Sabbath in accordance with the Law, and as his followers, we are straightforwardly told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), which means among other things that we are to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day as he did. He certainly would not have sinned in violation of the Law by keeping the Sabbath holy every day. Something that is holy is set apart for a specific purpose, so every day can't be holy or else there would be nothing for them to be set apart from.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

There are a number of God's laws that appear to contract each other, such as what happens when someone wanted to obey the command to circumcise their baby on the eighth day and it happened to fall on the Sabbath. However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commands was never intended to prevent the other command from being obeyed, and in this case, the Sabbath was never intended to prevent circumcision on the 8th day. So some people thought (most likely of the house of Shammai) that because healing was work and the Sabbath prohibited doing work that therefore it was unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, whereas Jesus ruled that it was lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so it was never intended to prevent the work of healing. In general no command was intended to be used as an excuse to avoid obeying the greatest two commands.

Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example to walk in obedience to the Law, follow of how to correctly keep the Sabbath in accordance with the Law, and as his followers, we are straightforwardly told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6), which means among other things that we are to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day as he did. He certainly would not have sinned in violation of the Law by keeping the Sabbath holy every day. Something that is holy is set apart for a specific purpose, so every day can't be holy or else there would be nothing for them to be set apart from.

The sabbath was for the Jews only. Not once in scripture does it mention the requirement of gentiles to keep it.

The sabbath was for the Jews not to work,or rest from their works just as God had done on the 7th day.

The sabbath is not a worship day. Everyday we are required to worship Our Father.

That's why Jesus healed on the sabbath. Helping someone in need isn't working, it's kingdom building.
I suggest you study this scripture properly and take my illustration about the well into thought with you.
Jesus didn't work as a carpenter on the sabbath meaning He fulfilled the law, He did heal on the sabbath which also is not a law breaking offence, so please figure it out.

Just to be clear, being Holy one day a week and not the other 6 means you don't truly worship God.
The sabbath again I say is not a worship day, it's a rest from works day in which no gentile was every required to up keep. We are to worship God daily.

 

[sweetpsalmist]

Okay thank you very much for your advice sirs. I understand we have different views on the subject of the Law(s), sabbath, etc, so now you see my predicament in this current situation I seek advice in. Let's not get too wrapped up in the topic you addressed, but since we're here, i just can't resist, lol. Allow me to clarify my view.

Soyeung.... I hear you and understand your viewpoint, thank you for your concern. First of all, I am under Christ's Law, and as a personal testimony, i have been delivered from many evil habits effortlessly once this truth came to me, as I understood Paul's incredible realization. "The strength of sin is the Law" TRUE Statement for me.
1. "To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1 Cor 9

2. Sabbath- Most want to argue what day the Sabbath is or the best important day to worship, but not a day anymore. It was a shadow of the true Sabbath rest one enters into. You don't enter a day, but through a door. Jesus is my Sabbath rest. If you study Hebrews 4 very well, in many diff. translations, you will see this. Resting from legalistic works and your own efforts to find God's favor, not a physical rest. Nothing wrong with choosing a day to rest on and worship God, that's great, but not to earn His favor, or adherence to the "commandments of death written and engraved on stones."

Funny how every time I kept the Sabbath, bad things happened to me. (sin has dominion over you when you are under the Law- Rom 6:14.) I finally prayed God to show me what I'm missing? I feel he showed me that by keeping it, I take away from what Christ has done, in self-righteousness. It's not so much what I do, but why I do it.

By keeping the Sabbath (4th Commandment), you are actually breaking the commandment by working to achieve your right standing with God. The definition of working is not in a physical sense, but spiritual, as is the rest. However, I respect your position, and completely understand your view.

The further you are from God, the more commandments are needed, the closer you are to Him, the fewer. Amen!

 

[discipler7]

We must obey God rather than man, so when God says to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day and Rome says to keep it on the 1st day, then you have a choice to make about who has the higher authority and whether you a follower of God or of Rome. As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord, not Rome, so there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath.

.
MATTHEW.22:21 = And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

ROMANS.13: = 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil.

 

[Soyeong]

Okay thank you very much for your advice sirs. I understand we have different views on the subject of the Law(s), sabbath, etc, so now you see my predicament in this current situation I seek advice in. Let's not get too wrapped up in the topic you addressed, but since we're here, i just can't resist, lol. Allow me to clarify my view.

Soyeung.... I hear you and understand your viewpoint, thank you for your concern. First of all, I am under Christ's Law, and as a personal testimony, i have been delivered from many evil habits effortlessly once this truth came to me, as I understood Paul's incredible realization.

I completely agree that we are under Christ's Law, but I don't see any reason to think that he was in disagreement with the Father about what conduct we should have or that he went off and taught his own thing, but rather he said that he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38). Furthermore, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not depart in the slightest from what the Father command, and I see no reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than the way that he taught his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example. He was sinless, so even if he had said nothing, he still would have taught how to obey the Mosaic Law by example, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). It doesn't make any sense for people to want to be his followers while not wanting to follow his example.

"The strength of sin is the Law" TRUE Statement for me.

If the strength of sin were the Mosaic Law, then the Mosaic Law would be sin, however, in Romans 7:7, Paul said that God's Law was not sin, but rather it reveals what sin is, so the strength of sin is the law of sin. In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but that he was held captive by the law of sin, which he served with his flesh. This is a summary of what he said previously, so it is the law of sin that came about to increase trespasses (5:20), to stir up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death (7:5), that held us captive (7:6), that gave sin its power (7:8), that seized the opportunity through the commandment to deceive Paul and slay him (7:11), and that caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do (7:13-20), while God's Law is not sin, but reveals what sin is (7:7), is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), is the good that Paul did not blame for bringing death to him (7:13), and is the good that he desired to do (7:13-20). So saying that the strength of sin is the law does not at all fit with Paul's description of God's holy, righteous, and good Law, but rather it perfectly fits his description of law of sin. Similarly:

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

This verse specifies that the law that we are not under was one where sin had dominion over us, so again, it fits perfectly with his description of the law of sin, and does not fit at all with his description of the Law, which he said was not sin. So the law that we are not under when we are under grace is the law of sin. This fits with other verse like Psalms 119:29, where David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law and Titus 2:11-14, which describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do things that are an accurate description of what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do, so when we are under grace, then we are under the Mosaic Law.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense to interpret Romans 6:14 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic Law and then say in verse 15 that being under grace doesn't mean that we are permitted to do what the Mosaic Law reveals to be sin. In addition, all of the surrounding verses of Romans 6:12-19 are in support of obeying God's Law, where we are to no longer present ourselves as instruments of unrighteousness, but as instruments of righteousness, that we are to present ourselves as obedient slaves to God instead of slaves to sin, that we once presented ourselves as slaves of impurity and Lawlessness, but are now to present ourselves as slaves of righteousness.

1. "To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1 Cor 9

He said that he was not outside of the Law of God in a parallel statement with saying that he was under the law of Christ, so they are again both the same thing.

2. Sabbath- Most want to argue what day the Sabbath is or the best important day to worship, but not a day anymore. It was a shadow of the true Sabbath rest one enters into. You don't enter a day, but through a door. Jesus is my Sabbath rest. If you study Hebrews 4 very well, in many diff. translations, you will see this. Resting from legalistic works and your own efforts to find God's favor, not a physical rest. Nothing wrong with choosing a day to rest on and worship God, that's great, but not to earn His favor, or adherence to the "commandments of death written and engraved on stones."

The Sabbath rest of God refers to the Messianic reign, but even during then, it says that we will still be keeping the Sabbath (Isaiah 66:23), so understanding what it is teaching us about God does not exempt us from having to obey Him. Living by faith is always associated with a willingness to submit to God's will as made known through His commands, such as with every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11, while there are a number of verses that refer to disobedience to God's commands as breaking faith. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the weightier matters of the Law, so obedience to God's commands is straightforwardly about having faith in Him to teach us how to rightly live, and has never been trying to earn God's favor through our own efforts, which has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of the Law.

In Romans 9:30 - Romans 10:10, Israel failed to obtain righteousness precisely because they had that misunderstanding of the Law. They had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge because they did not understand that the righteousness of God comes only through faith in Messiah. The pursued the Law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the Law as though righteousness were by faith, for the goal of the Law is a relationship with Messiah for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul quoted Deuteronomy 30:11-14 in regard to our faith saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, but that His Word is near us, in our heart and in our mouth so that we can obey it, and this is what is means to confess and to submit to Jesus as Lord. According to Jeremiah 6:16-19 and Matthew 11:28-30, the Law is the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but trying to become justified through our obedience to the Law would rob our souls of the rest that it was intended to give.

Funny how every time I kept the Sabbath, bad things happened to me. (sin has dominion over you when you are under the Law- Rom 6:14.) I finally prayed God to show me what I'm missing? I feel he showed me that by keeping it, I take away from what Christ has done, in self-righteousness. It's not so much what I do, but why I do it.

I would agree that our motivation is important. The distinction between God's righteousness and self-righteousness is not in a particular act, but in who gets the glory. God's Law reveals that one of the way to practice righteousness is to help the poor, but two people can do the same action of helping the poor, where one brings glory only to themselves while the other brings glory to God. So we certainly should have the right motivation for keeping the Sabbath.

By keeping the Sabbath (4th Commandment), you are actually breaking the commandment by working to achieve your right standing with God. The definition of working is not in a physical sense, but spiritual, as is the rest. However, I respect your position, and completely understand your view.

Keeping the Sabbath has never been about working to achieve our right standing with God. Rather, obedience to God is about expressing our love and our faith in Him and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on love and faith.

The further you are from God, the more commandments are needed, the closer you are to Him, the fewer. Amen!

Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey His commandments, not that that more we love him, the less important it becomes to obey His commandments. We can't love God while disregarding His instructions for how He wants us to love Him.