Christening in a Greek Orthodox Church

[mjv1978]

Christening in an Orthodox Church...?
Hi all, i was wondering if anyone could help me out here.

My best friend has recently been blessed given birth to a beautiful little girl. Both parents are Greek Orthodox so naturally the child will be greek orthodox as well.

He has since told me that he and his wife want me to be the Godfather to the child.

Myself, i was born into a cypriot maronite community. Maronite's are Catholics originating from Lebanon.

Now i have found this segrogation within christianity to be a huge pain in my life. I do not follow the maronite way of preaching, or any sort really!
I am not a church goer and do not think that by going to church makes me eligible to be closer to God or Christ.

I am a Christian and do not think these divisions in the world of christianity do anyone anny good. But that is besides the point.

My fiance is greek orthodox as well, but we have agreed to get married in an English church in Cyprus purely so we can understand the ceremony and exchange our vowes to one another and also not to slap either of our fathers in the face by marrying in the "opposite" church!!

We are both Christians and believe in God and Jesus Christ but do not segrogate people according to whether they are catholic, orthodox, anglican, etc.

My question is: CAN I CHRISTEN MY BEST FRIENDS DAUGHTER IN AN ORTHODOX CHURCH WHERE I WILL THEN HELP BRING HER UP TO BE A GOOD CHRISTIAN, AN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, SEEING AS WE LIVE IN A GREEK ORTHODOX COMMUNITY?

 

[Anhelyna]

My reaction is that of a Catholic not and Orthodox Christian

However I think that Orthodox Christians would agree with me here.

You may not be a GodParent for this Child - if the child has been born to Greek Orthodox parents and is to be Baptised in the Greek Orthodox Church then the GodParents have also to be practising Orthodox .

There is also another point - you say you were born into a Maronite Community - this , providing you received the Sacraments of Initiation would make you a Catholic - and therefore you would not be eligible to be a GodParent for this child

The final point is that you say

Now i have found this segrogation within christianity to be a huge pain in my life. I do not follow the maronite way of preaching, or any sort really! I am not a church goer and do not think that by going to church makes me eligible to be closer to God or Christ

How can you then encourage this child in spiritual growth which includes praxis when you don't even practice yourself ?

I'm not trying to start any arguments here - I am just stating the facts as they appear to me. Baptism is very very important and should not be undertaken as a sort of Rite of Passage

 

[mjv1978]

My point is that i dont think you have to go to church in order to believe in God!
I believe in God and have a good relationship with the Lord, but do not think that if i go to Church every week, will make me a better christian person!! I know who i am am and i know wot i believe in; that is Jesus Christ and the Lord!!

I am more religious than the parents of the child who are only baptising the child because it is the normal thing to do!

When i spoke of segregation, i meant diving people into different categories!!

We were all put on this earth in the same way, and a that age you have no choice wot religion you will be! I think the segregation only cause problems!

I am an open minded human being and believe that he/she who shows faith in the Lord and follows him will go to heaven.

My sister is married to an Orthodox and they went and asked the Archbishop of the Cyprus, and asked him if one of her sisters could baptise the baby and his answer was straight forward
"No, because you dont believe in what we do; besides when you die you wont be together!!"

I thought that was extremley out of order to say! So he basically says, only Orthodox people will go to Heaven!!

This is why i find the segregation within christianity a load of rubbish!! We are all children of God and we all believe in one God!!!

 

[Anhelyna]

There is an old saying - and it could be considered here

If you don't want to keep the rules then don't join the club

I have to say that I agree with the Archbishop here

[quote["No, because you dont believe in what we do;[/quote]

how can you, a very nominal Catholic [ I'm being polite here as you certainly don't appear to be a practising Catholic - Eastern or Western ]
agree when standing as a godparent for an Orthodox Child , to bring that child up in the faith , beliefs and traditions and Traditions [ yes they are different ] of which you know an insufficient amount and don't actually believe.

If you wish to debate this , ........ Mods - please arange for this to be moved to the debate area. By the TAW guidelines non Orthodox [ and this includes me ] are not permitted to debate in this area.

 

[ikonographics]

Anhelyna is right. A non-Orthodox cannot be the godparent of a child in the Orthodox Church. Baptism is not just a social event, the baby's first public appearance or "the normal thing to do" though this is sadly what many nominal Orthodox believe.. It is also not simply a matter of believing in God. For the Orthodox Church what we believe about God is very important and most importantly is that we believe what God has revealed about Himself and not what we want to believe about God. Only the Orthodox Church has preserved unaltered God's revelation about Himself and how we are to live in in relation to Him.
Baptism is not just a pretty ritual or symbolic representation, it is a Mystery or Sacrament in which a person truly dies and rises again with Christ and becomes a member of Christ's Body, the Church.
The role of the of the godparent is to bring up the child in the Orthodox Faith and to guide him in the spiritual life. This is impossible for someone who is not Orthodox. In fact at the baptism of an infant the godparent makes the confession of faith on behalf of. the child. How can you confess something you don't believe on behalf of someone else?

Here is come information about what it means to be a godparent in the Orthodox Church:

http://www.orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=Piety-About Being a Godparent

 

[Gwenyfur]

Moving thread to debate subforum of TAW where it belongs...

Carry on

 

[Michael G]

Christening in an Orthodox Church...?
Hi all, i was wondering if anyone could help me out here.

My best friend has recently been blessed given birth to a beautiful little girl. Both parents are Greek Orthodox so naturally the child will be greek orthodox as well.

He has since told me that he and his wife want me to be the Godfather to the child.

Myself, i was born into a cypriot maronite community. Maronite's are Catholics originating from Lebanon.

Now i have found this segrogation within christianity to be a huge pain in my life. I do not follow the maronite way of preaching, or any sort really!
I am not a church goer and do not think that by going to church makes me eligible to be closer to God or Christ.

I am a Christian and do not think these divisions in the world of christianity do anyone anny good. But that is besides the point.

My fiance is greek orthodox as well, but we have agreed to get married in an English church in Cyprus purely so we can understand the ceremony and exchange our vowes to one another and also not to slap either of our fathers in the face by marrying in the "opposite" church!!

We are both Christians and believe in God and Jesus Christ but do not segrogate people according to whether they are catholic, orthodox, anglican, etc.

My question is: CAN I CHRISTEN MY BEST FRIENDS DAUGHTER IN AN ORTHODOX CHURCH WHERE I WILL THEN HELP BRING HER UP TO BE A GOOD CHRISTIAN, AN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, SEEING AS WE LIVE IN A GREEK ORTHODOX COMMUNITY?

The answer to your question is no you can not. The very base law of all philosophy says you can not be "x" and "not x" at the same time, when "x" and "not x" are mutually exclusive of each other" and not contradict yourself. You openly tell us you are against the church and yet you want to do something that is very much a church function. Make up your mind, either you are against the church or for it, but you can not be both. You have gone on and on telling us how you think the divisions within Christianity make no sense to you, do no one any good, etc. Yet, all of these divisions exist because churches broke from churches which broke from Orthodox Christianity. How can you teach a child to be a good christian, let alone Orthodox Christian, and that it is important to go to church and be active in the church when you have openly displayed your dislike of the church. I am sorry, but you are not the type of person the Orthodox Church wants being a godparent for its children.

 

[Anhelyna]

mjv1978

[ oh my - that's going to give me problems typing it ]

I wonder if you would care to tell us what your understanding of baptism is ?

This could give us a good starting point for this discussion

 

[Greg the byzantine]

The role of the nouno/godfather is to guide and instruct their godchild in the faith, you will also be speaking on behalf of the child because the baby still doesn't have the ability to speak. If you aren't Orthodox you can't speak on behalf of the child or teach them the faith because you are not of the same faith.

I know how it is in Cyprus, everybody wants their best friends and good relatives to be "koumbaroi" so they have them baptize their children. But it's not just a social thing, while few people actually fully embrace the role of "Godfather/Godmother" the status still holds. In fact in the past in the unfortunate circumstance that both parents of a child would die oftentimes it is the godparent who steps in and assumes the role as legal guardian. In the eyes of the church they become spiritual kin, and in fact it's forbidden for a Godchild to marry their Godparents children (their Godbrothers and Sisters).

Anyway having said all that, Welcome. One of my Uncle's was Maronite but unfortunately he has passed away from Leukemia, + May his Memory be Eternal. He was married in the Greek Orthodox Church and their daughter was baptized in the Orthodox Church. I think the Maronites have an interesting history, one of the Eastern Rites with the longest standing communion with Rome. I also like the Maronite Iconography it reminds me of Coptic Iconography but distinct as its own tradition.

 

[Andrew21091]

We are both Christians and believe in God and Jesus Christ but do not segrogate people according to whether they are catholic, orthodox, anglican, etc.

It is a shame that there are the divisions but we cannot just act like everything is ok between all the Christians in the world. Orthodox and Catholic beliefs differ quite a lot, and many Orthodox people consider the Roman Catholic church to be in heresy along with the Protestant sects. Yes we all believe in one God, but there are many other points that we do not agree on with those churches.

My question is:

CAN I CHRISTEN MY BEST FRIENDS DAUGHTER IN AN ORTHODOX CHURCH WHERE I WILL THEN HELP BRING HER UP TO BE A GOOD CHRISTIAN, AN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, SEEING AS WE LIVE IN A GREEK ORTHODOX COMMUNITY?

Since you are not Orthodox, you cannot be a godparent of an Orthodox Christian since you,as the Archbishop told you, do not believe what we believe. When you are an Eastern Rite Catholic, it would be hard to see the differences between you and the Orthodox since the service is the same, but the doctrine of the two churches are very different.

 

[Anhelyna]

Not only that Andrew .....

both churches state clearly that to be a godparent you have to be a member of the Church concerned


Baptism is NOT a rite of passage

I am waiting to hear what the original poster can tell us about his understanding of the Sacrament of Baptism [ and yes I am using catholic terminology here since that is what I expect is familiar to him ]

I would like later to also discuss another part of the original post

My fiance is greek orthodox as well, but we have agreed to get married in an English church in Cyprus purely so we can understand the ceremony and exchange our vowes to one another and also not to slap either of our fathers in the face by marrying in the "opposite" church!!