Christadelphians: Who are they?

[Gunny]

THE CHRISTADELPHIANS

Christadelphians base their beliefs on the revelations of their founder, John Thomas. Thomas was born April 12th, 1805 in London. His father was a Baptist Minister in London.
In 1837 Thomas went to the U.S. There he joined a group affiliated with Disciples of Christ, a reformed Presbyterian group with similar doctrine to the Baptists. Thomas became disenchanted and claimed he found the true faith through study of the Bible. This 'true faith' was that taught by Jesus and the apostles. He said the Roman Catholic Church is the great harlot and all other churches are a part of this harlot. As a result of his new beliefs, Thomas was disfellowshipped from the Disciples of Christ and branded a heretic in 1848. He then formed his own group which were known as the Thomasites. In 1864 he began publishing a 16 page monthly magazine called THE AMBASSADOR OF THE COMING AGE. the group took on the title Christadelphians (meaning: "brothers in Christ").

Thomas wrote many books. Prominant are; Thirteen lectures on the Apocalypse, Seasons of Comfort, Nazareth Revisited, Visible Hand of God, Ways of Providence and Law of Moses. His book Elipsis Israel (Hope of Israel) and that written by his successor, Robert Roberts, Christendom Astray, are the basis of the group's beliefs. In 1869, Thomas in a letter to the Rock, set forth a full and explicit statement of the 'Christadelphian Creed'. It has often been re-printed, and so may be taken as authoritative.

Christadelphianism is a lay movement and has no clergy/laity distinctions. They have rendered to the claims of Scripture by the exercise of the inestimable right of private judgement. Ecclesiastical privacy is a principle jealousy conserved by Christadelphians, through mutual co-operation. Each ecclesia has a "recorder" to keep its own records. There is no central office and no attempt to compile statistics; no responsibility to any district union or general assembly. They meet every Sunday to partake of their communion and read the scriptures according to the prophets for edification and comfort. The Morning service is generally confined to the bretheren. Here 'practical' and 'moral' topics are discussed. In the meetings for 'alians' - held as a rule on Sunday evenings - the subject is usually prophecy and its fulfillment.

Christadelphians do not regard themselves as a new sect. They do not regard themselves as originating from any new inspiration or their beginnings to a new leader. They claim to be the sect spoken against in the first century, newly revived. Their revival, neverless is given to one man and is traceable to that man - John Thomas.

METHOD OF EVANGELISM

Their main method of evangelism is through advertising in newspapers. These ads emphasise the return of Christ, the decline in morality, world affairs, the resurrection of Christ or that we need not fear a personal devil. You are invited to a public meeting to hear a special message. They do no door-to-door as in the past but they are known to have displays at country Shows and Fairs, selling their literature and offering answers to todays problems. Their literature is very deceptive. At first glance it looks like orthodox Christian literature.

DOCTRINES OF THE CHRISTADELPHIANS Where they Differ from the Historical Christian Church

TRINITY

They deny the Trinity, that there are three persons called God. they say there is only one eternal person - the Father.

JESUS CHRIST

They deny Christ is the eternal, incarnate sinless Son of God. Jesus did not pre-exist with the Father and the Father's relationship started with Jesus after his virgin birth to Mary by the Holy Spirit. They deny Christ's sinless nature and believe Christ had a sinful nature like us. They teach that Christ overcame his sinful nature as he grew.

HOLY SPIRIT

They deny the personage of the Holy Spirit and believe that the Holy Spirit is an invisible power or radiant force.

THE BIBLE ANSWER:

We agree the Father is called God. The Bible teaches that Jesus was called God (Isa 9:6; Matt 1:23; John 1:1, 5, 18; 10:30; 20:28; Romans 9:5; Heb 1:8) The Bible also teaches that Jesus existed prior to coming to this earth (Mic 5:2; John 1:1-18) The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3,4. You cannot lie to an invisible force, nor can a non-person grieve, love, direct, command etc. All these are things the Holy Spirit does.

ATONEMENT

They ridicule the atonement as taught by the Church. They believe Christ has given no satisfaction and paid no debt. If the blood of Christ could be found it would not be of any spiritual value. the death of Christ was not to appease the wrath of an offended Deity but to express the love of the Father in a necessary sacrifice for sin, that the laws of sin and death might be nullified.

SALVATION

One is not assured of salvation if baptised into the Christadelphians. Assurance of eternal life on earth is gained only if we keep Christ's commands.

The way to salvation is to repent and be BAPTISED in the name of Jesus Christ. Then one is born of water (essential for salvation) and having entered 'His name' his sins are covered (ONLY Covered and not washed away). The person's transgression is hid, and whole past life is cancelled. He then commences a life of probation in which he is a lawful candidate for the birth of the Spirit from the grave which will finally constitute him a son of God. He then is a child of the resurrection but his ultimate acceptance will depend on the character he develops in this new relationship.

The best a Christadelphian can offer a sinner bowed down beneath a burden of sin, is yet another period of probation. No assurance of salvation is theirs.

THE BIBLE ANSWER: Ephesians 2:8-10 teaches FAITH + NOTHING = SALVATION. As Christians, we should produce works (James 1:26) but these come as a result of our salvation NOT as a condition of salvation - lest no man can boast (Eph 2:9).

HEAVEN AND HELL

Earth and not heaven is the inheritance of the saints that have eternal life. Christ will return and rule for 1,000 years and at the end of that time man will be judged. Those who do not gain eternal life will be cast into Non-existance. They do not believe in a literal hell. DOCTRINE OF SATAN

Another predominate doctrine they have is that Satan is not a real person. They deny a personal devil. All the passages that refer to Satan are figurative. They teach that Satan is in all of us - our own personal lusts. We all have good and evil in us. When Jesus returns to the earth he will weigh up the good and evil and if the evil outweighs the good we will be judged at the end of the 1,000 years and cease to exist.

THE BIBLE ANSWER:

Was God rebuking sin within Himself in Zechariah 3:1,2 ? Here Satan was standing before the angel of the Lord and God spoke to Satan.

Was Jesus carrying on a conversation with himself in Matt 4:1-11 when he was being tempted in the desert ?

Who was it who returned from wandering about the earth to stand before God's throne in Job 1:6,7 ?

Jesus called Satan the "father of lies" and a "murderer" in John 8:44. He was not referring to the sin within ourselves or an abstract thought.


Beacon Ministries

 

[Gunny]

The Christadelphians

by Fred Grigg



The CHRISTADELPHIANS were founded by an Englishman, one John Thomas, who was born in 1805 and died 1871. Thomas was raised in a Congregational Church manse (although some say he was "the son of a non-conformist minister"). He received an orthodox Christian up-bringing. Thomas went on to study medicine in the United Kingdom at St. Thomas' Hospital. He was awarded a diploma as a physician after three years of study. His forte was in obstetrics. In 1830 he had two articles published in the British medical journal, The Lancet. The articles were entitled:

(1) "The Immortal Human Principle" and,

(2) "The Perishable Brute Principle".

There is no doubt that the beliefs that he held in the United Kingdom at that time were but a foreshadowing of what would develop in time as Christadelphian doctrine and form the basis, or roots, of what today is being promoted around the world by Christadelphian adherents.

Thomas migrated with his father, who had by then aligned with the Baptists, to the United States in 1832. In the USA John joined with a group that was known originally as the "Campb ellites". They were at times referred to as "The Disciples of Christ". Their leader was one Alexander Campbell, who was claiming at that time that Jesus Christ would return to earth in 1866. Christ did not return at the stipulated time, but Campbell died in that same year!

Thomas commenced his 'church' in 1838, although some say it was 1844. Thomas, like Campbell, believed and taught that the date 1866 was significant. When the American Civil War began, Thomas and many other cult leaders and their followers believed that the war was the beginning of the Bible "Battle of Armageddon"' Thomas initially called his followers the "Brethren of Christ". The name "Christadelphian" was first coined in 1864. When Thomas died in 1871, one of his early converts from England, Robert Roberts, became the new leader of the group.

Traits Today Amongst the Christadelphians

There are no paid ministers, or a full-time priesthood as such. In fact they regard paid ministry as being unscriptural. They laugh and scorn the churches who salary their ministers, referring to them as being "hirelings". Like Jehovah's Witnesses they do not vote or support a nations war effort. Members are not to take part in political affairs, nor engage in any form of public service. They will not swear an oath in a court of law, but are prepared to serve on a jury. Women are not permitted to preach or pray in their meetings. Members are not permitted to take communion in other churches. To do so would mean excommunication.

Doctrines

Christadelphians hold to the following beliefs:

(3) There is no Trinity - Scriptures that Christians use to support the Trinity doctrine referring to Elohim are dismissed as only referring to angels. The angels they say, did the work of creation, because it was beneath God to engage in such a work.

(4) Jesus Christ is not God. They deny that Jesus existed in any form before he was born of Mary. In The Christadelphian', official journal of the church, No XI, from 1874 they say, "He (Jesus) was not God, neither a mere man, nor had he any existence prior to his supernatural birth". Again in Christendom Astray', page 1089 they say, "Jesus was a manifestation of the Father in man, begotten by the Spirit. He did not become the Christ until his water baptism; until then he simply had a body prepared for the divine manifestation that was to take place through him..."

(5) The Holy Spirit is not a person but a "...radiant visible power from the Father. It is an unseen power emanating from the Deity, filling all space, and by which God is everywhere present. It is the medium by which God created all things..." (Christadelphians by Lita Hutchins, page 7). Again, like Jehovah's Witnesses, they refer to the Holy Spirit as "it". So they have no Holy Spirit to assist them in their study and interpretation of the Scriptures!

(6) The devil does not exist! Roberts claimed that The Devil' where the term appears in the Bible is a synonym for the word "sin"'. This must make the devil and the kingdom of darkness rejoice! For satan to convince another that he doesn't even exist would have to be the ultimate deception!

(7) Personal immortality is rejected. They believe in the doctrine of soul sleep (as do the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-Day Adventists) and conditional immortality.

(8) Man is just a body - and not a body and soul

(9) The return of Jews to Israel and the establishing of the Nation of Israel is the key to the times in which we now live.

(10) The Kingdom of God will begin when Christ returns to the city of Jerusalem, then:

Christadelphians believe that when Christ returns:

(a) The saints' (which is only the Christadelphians) will become immortal

(b) The wicked (all those who are not Christadelphians) will be destroyed

(c) The faithful Christadelphians will gather in Jerusalem. Only Christadelphians who have met the equired standards and the Jews have any hope of a resurrection and living in the kingdom that will be administered from Jerusalem.

(d) The Kingdom established then will last for 1,000 years, during which time there will be:

(i) No hell

(ii) No torment of the body

(iii) No personal devils (or spiritual problems)

Salvation

For the Christadelphian salvation is a sequential process which is understood as follows:

(11) Gaining knowledge [of the Bible]

(12) Water Baptism [by total immersion in water]

(13) Moral rejuvenation

(14) A change of nature at Christ's return,

Membership

To become a member in the Christadelphian church one has to submit to the following:

(15) Accept the gospel preached by Jesus Christ and his apostles - but only as interpreted by the Christadelphians!

(16) Be baptized in water by total immersion. A candidate for baptism must be at least thirteen years of age.

(17) Be seen to be obeying the commandments of Christ.

(18) Submit to the Christadelphian order

Government

In each "ecclesia", or church the people are over sighted, and administered by men who are drawn from the congregation and have proven their submission to the church and its rules. They are appointed to the following positions:

(19) Managing Brethren [the deacons]

(20) Presiding Brethren [the elders]

(21) Lecturing Brethren [the preachers]

However, it is possible that a man can function in more than one of the above categories. The writer has noted that in speaking with Christadelphians, that there are no identities who stand out as leaders, or as a hierarchy for the church. In fact, in the Sydney area, it would appear from information gleaned, that in many instances the 'elder ship' of the Yagoona church in Sydney is looked to for appeal, guidance, speakers etc., by the other ecclesias in New South Wales.

Several years ago the writer was challenged to a debate by Christadelphians in the Blue Mountains area, sixty miles west of Sydney, NSW. However, we soon learnt that it was from the Yagoona ecclesia in Sydney that their intended representative was to come. In 1987 the writer was again challenged to a debate by an ecclesia on the Central Coast, forty miles north of Sydney, and again their preferred speaker was to come from Yagoona.

The writer did not debate in either situation (the writer believes that on the most skilled in the debating process wins), but rather invited the Christadelphians to provide a speaker for a public address. The scenario and subject the writer set for the Christadelphians was for a one hour address on "Why the Christadelphians are the Only True Church". The writer to respond for an hour on "Why the Christadelphians are a Cult".

Thomas' Writings

Perhaps the work John Thomas is best known for is his book "Elpis Israel" (The Hope of Israel). It is said that Parts I & II of the book have stood the test of time. However, part III contains error and has not stood the test of time! Thomas, in boasting of his teachings and writings, says, "Being crafty I taught them with guile". The word 'crafty', according to the dictionary means, "implies cunning, artful, skillful deceit"'. It says of the word 'guile', treachery, deceit, cunning devices"'. Not at all methods that one would use or expect of a person claiming to be a Christian!

On page 184 of Elpis Israel, the writer says, "Dr Thomas came to the conclusion, from what he saw, that a poperised brain is an earthly, sensual, devilish brain .... the bones and muscles of the face and head are molded into form and feature by the plastic influence of the brain". Which of course is not true.

Notice also that the word "poperised" is used. It is indicative of the manner in which the Christadelphians, like Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-Day Adventists, continually mock and ridicule the Roman Catholic Church, and of course the Pope.

Cont'd

 

[Gunny]

The Christadelphians Cont'd

by Fred Grigg



False Dates

On page 209 there is an excerpt from Thomas' magazine "Eureka" which says, "..the 42 months of the Apocalypse and the time and a half of Daniel were expected to terminate in 1864-1868". John Thomas was wrong, he falsely, like many others have done, proclaimed dates for the end-time. Notice that Jeremiah 28:9 says, of the true prophet, "...when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent that prophet". The Lord did not send John Thomas or the Christadelphians to function as his spokesman.

It is interesting to note that John Thomas agreed with the Ellen G. White of the Seventh-Day Adventists on the date of Christ's return in 1844! He said, "...we could agree and concluded to await the arrival of the Ides of March, 1844..." [See my booklet "The Sabbath Keepers] However, Thomas had to alter the calendar to be able to agree with the false prophecy of the Adventists. Thomas did this by reasoning as follows:

(22) "...the 391 years and thirty days should be calculated from May 29th AD 1453 which will cause them to end June 29th 1844 which is only three months and eight days after the termination of the 2300 years in March..."1

(23) Thomas further said, "..the true age of the world is 5,933 full years at the same epoch, instead of 1847-8, so the current year is that of 1844!! 2

(24) He qualified that by saying, "True time 1844 is 1848"! 3&4

Robert Robert's Writings

Roberts did not learn from Thomas' mistakes. He also tried his hand at date setting. For example he wrote: "...the world was 4,090 years old at the birth of Christ, instead of 4,004. Add 4090 to the present year 1910 and we get 6,000 as the real age of the present time..."5 It is interesting that in the publication that the foregoing paragraph is quoted from, the remainder of the text has been left out [blank] but for a publishers note which reads:

"THE LAPSE OF TIME HAS MADE VOID THE REST OF THIS PARAGRAPH"'

Two pages further on in the same book7 we find the following table supposedly proving Roberts setting of the year 1910 for the time of the end:

"Seven times commencing BC610 = 2520

deduct years elapsed before Christ = 610

Expiry date of the 7 times = 1910

the world is 6,000 years old = 1910"

If this wasn't so serious it would be funny!

Have you ever heard someone jokingly say of another, "You need your head read"? The saying resulted from a practice known as PHRENOLOGY. Phrenology was very popular in the 1800's, and is even today seeing a renaissance among the New Age alternative therapists!

Very simply, phrenology according to the dictionary is the, "Study of the external contours [or bumps] of the cranium [head] as an index to the development and position of organs supposedly belonging to the different mental faculties"!

Robert Roberts was a phrenologist! He was employed for about two years by one L.N. Fowler from the United States, when he practiced in the United Kingdom. Roberts says of the practice: "Phrenology, by which is indicated the delineation of a person's characteristics and mental powers by the conformation of his skull, has a very wide vogue since the 1840's"8

It is interesting to note that not long after John Thomas joined with the Campbellites, he had a falling-out with Alexander Campbell. The disagreements and open debates over doctrine that ensued between Thomas and Campbell are well documented. At the height of the argumentation Thomas challenged Campbell to a Phrenograph, that is to have his "head read" by a phrenologist, in order to prove which of them was organically different of by comparing their "Skullographic Digitational Difference . In other words to establish who was the most intelligent in order to determine who had used the best logic and reasoning, and therefore had the wisest argument!

Robert Roberts was still promoting phrenology, or as it has also been called cranioscopy" well into the latter half of the last century.

Conclusion

One Christian writer recently summed up the Christadelphian position perfectly. "Without God, without the Father, without the Son, without the Holy Ghost, without atonement, without a hope of heaven, how truly terrible their condition is! Theirs is indeed a system of error without one redeeming feature".9

Since their Christ has no deity at all, he is not really worshiped - which dishonors the Father and the Son (John 5:23). Without the New Birth there is no new life. As we have said before, without the Holy Spirit there can be no divine love shed abroad in new hearts to mark the true disciple, now power to witness to the reality of the risen Christ, and no expectation of the miraculous intervention of a caring Lord to meet needs of His people, and confirm the preaching of His Word.

 

[Gunny]

THE CHRISTADELPHIANS
BROTHERS OF CHRIST
The name `Christadelphian' means `brothers of Christ'.

They claim that they alone hold the key to a correct understanding of the Bible. Let's have a brief look at this organization of people that claim that they alone hold the key to a correct understanding of the Bible.

HISTORY

The founder of the Christadelphians was Dr. John Thomas. Dr. Thomas was raised in a Congregational Church setting and received his training in the medical profession in London, England. He emigrated to America in 1832, and on the journey there, the ship on which he was traveling faced a near shipwreck. This caused Thomas to reevaluate his standing with God and vowed to devote his life to religion should he survive.

On
ce he arrived safely to America he joined up with Alexander Campbell's group known as the Disciples of Christ. In 1836 he began to teach and preach some rather strange doctrines (still adhered to by the Christadel- phians today) and in the year 1837 Alexander Campbell publicly refuted the teachings of this very popular preacher. Thomas was forced to leave the Disciples of Christ and began to form his own group.

From 1847 to 1864 his followers were known as `The Royal Association of Believers in New York', later the name was changed to `Christadelphians'.

During the early years in New York, Thomas wrote and published a book entitled `Elpis Israel'. This book is still regarded by most Christadel- phians as an authoritative book on doctrine and prophecy.

PRACTICES

The Christadelphians are basically a lay movement with no paid clergy. They meet regularly in buildings generally known as `halls'. Meetings are held throughout the week, the Sunday morning Memorial Meeting being the most important, where only confessed and baptized Christadelphians share in the Breaking of Bread (very similar to communion).

Evening meetings are usually open to the public and are advertised quite prominently to attract interested persons. The message is usually one of social issues, Bible prophecy or doctrine.

The followers of this group usually follow a set Bible reading plan where they are encouraged to read the Old Testament once a year and the New Testament twice every year.

They are very anti-government and will not participate in voting or poli- tics. They will not serve in the armed services, legal professions or the police force. Most Christadelphians will not serve on juries or join trade unions.

TEACHINGS
The Christadelphians deny almost every basic Christian Doctrine.

THE NATURE OF GOD
They deny the doctrine of the Trinity. They believe that it was a pagan doctrine adopted by Christendom in the fourth century.

*The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. There is only one God (Deut 4:35; Isa 43:10; 44:6).
The Father is God (John 17:3; Phil 2:11; 1Cor 6:6).
The Son, Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1; 5:18; 20:28; Heb 1:8; Isa 9:6). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3,4; Matt 28:19; Heb 9:14).

The Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit, while yet the same God (Luke 22:42; John 14:26; 17:8; 20:21).
The Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit, while yet the same God (John 15:26; 16:7; 17:8; 20:21).
The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, while yet the same God (as the verses above show).
JESUS CHRIST
They deny the Deity and preexistence of the Lord Jesus Christ. They be- lieve that he was created in the womb of Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, but had no prior existence as the second person of the Trinity. They deny that He is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and say that he only existed as a thought in the mind of God before being born of the virgin, Mary.

*See John 1:1; 8:58; Micah 5:2; Col 1:15-18; Heb 13:8.

They teach that Jesus Christ was made of sinful flesh, inheriting a sin nature from his mother and is said to have had to obtain eternal redemp- tion for himself, through his sinless life and obedience unto death.

*See John 8:46; 2Cor 5:21; Heb 4:15; 1Pet 1:19. Jesus Christ was and is the perfect, sinless Son of God and therefore is not in need of redemp- tion.

THE HOLY SPIRIT
They deny the personality and Deity of the Holy Spirit, preferring to consider Him as the effluence of God, the power of God.

*The Holy Spirit has personality - intelligence (1Cor 2:10-11)
- feelings (Eph 4:30)
- a will (1Cor 12:11)
He also is referred to as a personality (John 14:26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
SALVATION
Christ's death is not a substitutionary atonement for all who have faith in Him, but rather the declaration of God's righteousness. Christ lived a sinless obedient life, therefore God raised Him from the dead. His death was for Himself, not for us.

Salvation is obtained through:
1. A complete and accurate knowledge of the teachings of Scripture.
2. Baptism by full immersion.
3. Total obedience to all or the commands of Christ.
*Jesus death was one of substitution for us (Rom 4:25; 5:6-8; 1Cor 15:3).
He shed His blood for us (Col 1:14; Heb:9:22; 10:29; 13:20).
Salvation is by Grace, through faith alone (Rom 1:16,17; 5:1; Eph 2:8,9).
SATAN
Satan is not a real, personal being, but rather the manifestation of sin in the flesh.

*See Job 1:6 - 2:7; Matt 4:1-11; John 8:44.
ANNIHILATION
The Christadelphians teach that human beings cease to exist at death. There is no aspect of mankind (soul/spirit)that continues to exist after the death of the body.

*See 2Cor 5:8; Phil 1:21-24; Rev 20:4.

The wicked will be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ and then put out of existence (annihilated). There is no hell, only the grave. Those who have never heard the Gospel will never be resurrected.

*See Matt 10:28; 25:46; 2Thess 1:7-9; Rev 20:10-15.

The faithful (obedient, baptized Christadelphians) will be raised immortal and live forever on the earth.

*The earth will be burned up and there will be a new heavens and a new earth (2Pet 3:10-13).


Beacon Ministries

 

[Gunny]

Christadelphians
By Dr. Ken Johnson

Christadelphians are a small cult, founded in in the United States by John Thomas in 1833. They were also known as the "Brothers of Christ" and the Thomasites. This group may be the parent group of the Jehovah's witnesses. Many of their doctrines are the similar.
They teach that their founder, John Thomas, brought to light through his interpretations the "lost" truth, which had been corrupted with apostasy for centuries and without his interpretation, the bible cannot be understood. Their doctrines are as follows:

You must become a Christadelphian and be baptized by them in order to have a chance at salvation.
Jesus was the son of God, but not God in the flesh (denying the Trinity)
The Holy Spirit is the radiant energy/power of God, not 3rd person of the Trinity, and he does not indwell the believer.
Jesus was not born sinless. But we must achieve sinless perfection, like Christ did in order to save ourselves. This is referred to as the "God Manifestation".
Baptism and other works are necessary for salvation.
Hell is not eternal. The wicked are annihilated. Except for the resurrection there is no type of life after death.
They are not to fellowship with any who do not hold to their doctrines.
Jesus Christ was just an human being. His death on the cross was not substitutionary, does not atone for are sins, and is not sufficient for our salvation. He only died so that we could have an opportunity to be like him, he was only a representative, not a savior.
The soul is not immortal, it ceases to exist after death.
The Devil, fallen angels, and demons are not real. They are just a euphemism for sin and evil men.
They have various by-laws and standards regulating behavior, conscious objectors, no voting in elections, no union membership, no self defense, no employment as a police, or employment where military goods are manufactured. Children discouraged from playing after school sports or becoming members in boy/girl scouts, no membership in any fraternal organizations at all. Marriage outside the Christadelphians is ground for disfellowship, as is any disagreement on any of the above. They have no organizational hierarchy, and each ecclesia (church) is presided over by part time lay ministers, who do not have any formal training other than studying for baptism, which is a lengthy trial of interrogation by other Christadelphian brethren. The women are to keep silence in the church, but may teach the children and each other, are to cover their heads and flashy dress is discouraged. There seems to be a greater tendency than average to utilize holistic health practitioners, (somewhat reminiscent of Christian Scientist) although there is no prohibition against blood transfusions, they have been known to discourage it.



Information taken from "The Constitution of the Glendale Christadelphian Ecclesia", Glendale, California, 1972.

 

[Gunny]

Questions for Christadelphians


According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature.
Deut. 17:1 says, "You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the Lord your God," (NASB, See also Ezekiel 43:22-23, 25; 45:18, 23). Of course, Jesus is not an animal. The point is that the sacrifice to a holy God must have no blemish or defect.
"defect" in Hebrew is ra. In this verse, it is translated as "evilfavourdness" in the KJV, as "defect" in the RSV and NKJV, and as "flaw" in the NIV.
Question: If Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature, then isn't that a defect?
Question: If Jesus' sinful nature is not a defect, then what would you call it?
Question: If Jesus sinful nature is a defect, then doesn't that mean His sacrifice is insufficient?
Question: If you state that being obedient is what makes a person "unblemished," then why are we sinful by nature (Eph. 2:3) if it is only our sinful deeds that condemn us?
According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had to die in order to save himself. Yet the Christadelphians also maintain that Jesus was without blemish or defect.
Question: If this is so, why would Jesus need to save Himself if He had no sin?
Question: If Jesus needed to save Himself, then that means He was not without defect. If that is the case, then how can he be a pure and unblemished sacrifice?
Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God," (John 20:28). He was not sinning by using God's name in vain.
Question: Can you, like Thomas, say to Jesus, "My Lord and my God."?
Question: If you do call Jesus your Lord and your God, since you believe Jesus is a creation, isn't that idolatry?
Question: If you do call Jesus your Lord and your God, is Jesus the true God or not?
Question: If you do not call Jesus you Lord and your God, why not? It is biblical.
Jude 4 says, "For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Question: Can you call Jesus your only Master and Lord?
Question: If you do call Jesus your only Master and Lord, then what about God the Father? Is He not also your Lord and Master?
Question: If you call Jesus your "only" Lord and Master, aren't you committing idolatry?
Question: If you do not call Jesus your only Lord and Master, then aren't you disobeying the truth of God's word?
John 1:12 says, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
Question: Have you received Jesus?
In Matt. 11:28 Jesus says, "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." The rest He is referring to is rest from the law, from trying to please God by your deeds.
Question: Have you gone to Jesus and rested are or you still trying to please God enough to be saved?
Question: If you have gone to Jesus, how did you do this? In prayer to Jesus?
When we sin, we sin against God because it is His law we are breaking. He is the one who must forgive us because we have offended Him. The one offended is the one who forgives. Someone or something else doesn't forgive us for our sins against God, only God can do that.
Question: How is it that Jesus is the one who forgives sins (Luke 5:20) if Jesus is not God, the one who is offended?
Question: If you state that it is because Jesus was given authority by God to forgive sins (Matt. 28:19), then have you gone to Jesus and asked Him to forgive you of your sins? Remember, to do that, you must pray to Jesus. Is it right to pray to a creature?



CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS AND RESEARCH MINISTRY

 

[alphatronics]

It seems you uh, answered your own question. Have fun!

 

[Ben johnson]

That was interesting----thank you for posting it. I heard the term in this website, but was unaware that it was a distinct "religion"...

 

[OldShepherd]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
That was interesting----thank you for posting it. I heard the term in this website, but was unaware that it was a distinct "religion"...

They most certainly are a distinct "religion" in the worst sense of that word. I have been debating twin brothers from Australia over on another forum. They are both well read and articulate, and love to demean and insult anyone who isn't up to their standard of debate. But they have abandoned about three threads I was on when the going got too tough.