Christ and Death

[Ortho_Cat]

Could Christ have died a natural death like his Mother had he not been killed?

If yes, why? If no, why not?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could Christ have died a natural death like his Mother had he not been killed?

If yes, why? If no, why not?

in one sense, yes. had He kept quiet and not angered the religious and secular leaders, yeah. but then He would not be who He said He is. so in that sense, no.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

so he was capable of dying a natural death, just like he was capable of aging, feeling pain, emotions, etc?

 

[ArmyMatt]

so he was capable of dying a natural death, just like he was capable of aging, feeling pain, emotions, etc?

if He is also true man, human like all of us, then unless I am wrong I don't see why not.

maybe you should ask your priest

 

[ikonographics]

If he couldn't have died naturally (as human by nature) then He couldn't have died on the Cross either.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Makes sense to me. Why is it then that some Orthodox say that he didn't inherit our fallen humanity?

 

[Knee V]

I think that part of the difficulty of this discussion is that there is a lot of Western theological baggage that goes along with many of the words that we use. For example, when a Western christian talks about our "fallen human condition", they're also talking about inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin and our "inability" to achieve any kind of spiritual good - in other words, there's an underlying understanding of "Total Depravity" that goes into that.

When we understand that none of that has anything to do with the actual consequences of The Fall, it ought to be easier to talk about Christ assuming all aspects of our humanity. It is true that Christ did not inherit any guilt from Adam. It is also true that Christ is not "spiritually dead" (Calvinists and those who are more or less in the classic stream of Reformation thought tend to have a very particular understanding of what it means to be "spiritually dead" that is inconsistent with Orthodoxy) or incapable of any kind of spiritual good. So no, none of that applies to Christ. But, on the other hand, they don't exactly apply to us, either.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

so it is acceptable to say that he inherited our fallen human condition, as we understand it in an Orthodox sense?

 

[ArmyMatt]

so it is acceptable to say that he inherited our fallen human condition, as we understand it in an Orthodox sense?

absolutely. He still grew tired, thirsty, and hungry, still felt pain, wept, etc.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

So what about this idea of ancestral sin; i.e. born in a state with a tendency towards sin, the result of which is physical death? We do not say that Christ possessed this; why not?

 

[Mary of Bethany]

So what about this idea of ancestral sin; i.e. born in a state with a tendency towards sin, the result of which is physical death? We do not say that Christ possessed this; why not?

Christ could only die of his own volition. His life could never be taken from Him. So I don't think, in that sense, that He was subject to death, as we are. Also, we don't believe that human nature is fallen, so His human nature is no different than ours.

Mary

 

[ArmyMatt]

So what about this idea of ancestral sin; i.e. born in a state with a tendency towards sin, the result of which is physical death? We do not say that Christ possessed this; why not?

well, Christ did posses this. He had the same fallen humanity we all have. the difference is that with Christ it was a nature to nature union, so His "theosis" was full and complete from His conception, so He did not sin, although He was tempted.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

well, Christ did posses this. He had the same fallen humanity we all have. the difference is that with Christ it was a nature to nature union, so His "theosis" was full and complete from His conception, so He did not sin, although He was tempted.

full and complete from the conception, I think I get that...thanks

 

[ArmyMatt]

full and complete from the conception, I think I get that...thanks

no probs, that's all Fr John Reeves