China increases tariffs in tit-for-tat response to Trump

[essentialsaltes]

China has fired back at the United States after President Donald Trump ramped up the trade war with his biggest wave of tariffs yet.

The Chinese government said Tuesday that it would impose tariffs on US goods worth $60 billion following the Trump administration's announcement that it was hitting $200 billion worth of Chinese goods with new tariffs.

Also, China is likely to cancel scheduled trade talks with the US.

I can't wait for Trump to win this war. Neither can the soybean farmers.

 

[whatbogsends]

We're winning so much that i'm sick of winning.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

I dislike the idea of a trade war, but what's the alternative? What leverage or message can we use to convince nations of fairer trade? Ideally I support free trade among nations, businesses and people deciding for themselves what's produced and consumed. Only alternative I can think about is making our economy more efficient and competitive with domestic policies.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I dislike the idea of a trade war, but what's the alternative? What leverage or message can we use to convince nations of fairer trade? Ideally I support free trade among nations, businesses and people deciding for themselves what's produced and consumed. Only alternative I can think about is making our economy more efficient and competitive with domestic policies.

Solving trade disputes is exactly what the WTO is for.

 

[AkidoMaster]

China’s currency an economy is hurting

America’s currency and economy is getting stronger

 

[iluvatar5150]

China’s currency an economy is hurting

America’s currency and economy is getting stronger

A low currency value doesn't necessarily mean that the currency is "hurting". A weak Yuan (relative to the dollar) helps Chinese exports (by making them less expensive for those doing the importing) and counteracts the protectionist effects of new tariffs.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

Solving trade disputes is exactly what the WTO is for.

What's their history of solving them? If all we had to do was file complaints to an international body, we wouldn't have a trade war brewing up. I rather have free trade than protectionism, but we can't ignore the fact unfair trade practices have been the norm for years. Only alternative to a trade war is try to invest more in areas we have a competitive advantage, this includes automating more jobs and getting people willing and educated for new jobs (which seems we have difficulty doing).

 

[iluvatar5150]

What's their history of solving them?

AFAIK, it's pretty good, and the US often comes out ahead, but the process takes a while. (on the order of a few years)

If all we had to do was file complaints to an international body, we wouldn't have a trade war brewing up.

The trade war we have brewing exists because Trump doesn't know what he's doing and would rather throw a temper tantrum / power trip than go through established processes. In fact, rather than going through the WTO, Trump is trying to undermine it altogether:

U.S. blocks WTO judge reappointment as dispute settlement crisis looms | Reuters

I rather have free trade than protectionism, but we can't ignore the fact unfair trade practices have been the norm for years. Only alternative to a trade war is try to invest more in areas we have a competitive advantage, this includes automating more jobs and getting people willing and educated for new jobs (which seems we have difficulty doing).

I'm not aware that anybody says that things have been perfect, particularly as they relate to some of China's activities, like forced technology transfers. But Trump jettisoned the TTP, which would've provided leverage against China, and has eschewed the WTO, the organization that has enabled China to become such a global player, in favor of his own simple-minded, ham-fisted tariff war that everybody knows will fail to achieve the outcomes he claims to desire.

 

[essentialsaltes]

GRAINS-Soy hits 10-year low on huge U.S. crop, China trade woes

Chicago Board of Trade November soybeans settled down 9-1/2 cents at $8.14 a bushel after dipping to $8.12-1/4, a contract low and the lowest for a most active soybean contract since December 2008. Soybeans sagged after Beijing added $60 billion of U.S. products to its import tariff list in retaliation for President Donald Trump's planned levies on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods.

Corn futures also hit contract lows

 

[Yekcidmij]

What leverage or message can we use to convince nations of fairer trade? Ideally I support free trade among nations, businesses and people deciding for themselves what's produced and consumed.

I question the term "fair trade" and what exactly that is supposed to mean. If trade is "unfair" it's quite incredible that the trade is taking place! Why does the private sector willfully engage in exchanges that are [supposedly] obviously "unfair?" Is someone forcing them to conduct these exchanges? It looks almost as if the private sector is either stupidly engaging in practices that are "unfair" to themselves or else they are actually exchanging goods and services at prices that are mutually agreeable between the parties involved. How do these businesses keep operating when so many foreigners are supposedly ripping them off?

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

I question the term "fair trade" and what exactly that is supposed to mean. If trade is "unfair" it's quite incredible that the trade is taking place! Why does the private sector willfully engage in exchanges that are [supposedly] obviously "unfair?" Is someone forcing them to conduct these exchanges? It looks almost as if the private sector is either stupidly engaging in practices that are "unfair" to themselves or else they are actually exchanging goods and services at prices that are mutually agreeable between the parties involved. How do these businesses keep operating when so many foreigners are supposedly ripping them off?

By fair I meant nations agreeing to the same rules of trade. If a nation has a lower tariff and another nation has a higher tariff, or one more than the other exploits businesses entries into the market and steals technology/patents; then it's not actual free trade. Lack of fairness doesn't mean it's not preferable or profitable compared to the alternative of having any access to foreign markets.

Also I'm not saying the United States is an innocent trade partner who's always fair. Only that by comparison as a nation we're more open to trade. So other nations have better access into our markets than we do theirs. The question I asked about fair trade was meant how do we get freer trade with a nation like China that's less one-sided.

Above T.P.P. was mentioned, I remember the opposition believed it favored international corporations at the expense of the people. It infringed on the sovereignties of nations and their people would have less say about trade and business. The decisions would be decided separately from governments by agreed upon institutions which each nation was to accept and enforce. Having thought more about it, not ideal politically, it was practical for freer trade. Not only among nations who agreed, but it pressured China as it was excluded. This meant it's competitors had greater access in each other's markets but China didn't putting it at a disadvantage.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Also, China is likely to cancel scheduled trade talks with the US..

Now it's official.
On Friday, a senior White House official said no new meetings are currently planned.
"There is no scheduled US-China negotiation at the moment," the official said.
--

Walmart Inc (WMT) Eyes Price Increases Because of Tariffs

Just days after President Donald Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods, Walmart sent a letter to U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer urging a de-escalation of the trade war and warning that import tariffs have broad consequences for U.S. businesses.

 

[super animator]

Now it's official.
On Friday, a senior White House official said no new meetings are currently planned.
"There is no scheduled US-China negotiation at the moment," the official said.
--

Walmart Inc (WMT) Eyes Price Increases Because of Tariffs

Just days after President Donald Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods, Walmart sent a letter to U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer urging a de-escalation of the trade war and warning that import tariffs have broad consequences for U.S. businesses.

How much does this effect the mid terms in your opinion?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

China already had tariffs against the United States, so, by giving them some of their own medicine, President Trump is trying to push China into agreeing to end their old practice of tariffs against the U.S. at which point Trump would end our tariffs against China so that there can be free trade.

 

[FireDragon76]

I dislike the idea of a trade war, but what's the alternative? What leverage or message can we use to convince nations of fairer trade? Ideally I support free trade among nations, businesses and people deciding for themselves what's produced and consumed. Only alternative I can think about is making our economy more efficient and competitive with domestic policies.

America is dominated by conservatives who are ideologically opposed to invest in the common good.

 

[essentialsaltes]

How much does this effect the mid terms in your opinion?

Hard to say. If Walmart were to put up signs at all its stores telling customers that if they notice higher prices on some products, it's because of Trump's trade policies, that might turn quite a few surprising districts blue. Walmart's not going to do anything that drastic, though, even though they've made their unhappiness clear to the Trump Administration, and will almost certainly have to raise prices.

I guess it depends how noticeable the price changes are, and whether 'the people' know what the cause of it is, and whether that turns them against the party of Trump (in some of the earlier reporting on farmers affected by the tariffs, a few said they supported Trump even though they knew it was going to hurt them; hopefully, it would be short and possibly good for the country in the long run; some consumers may feel the same).

My guess is that not enough people are going to connect point A (higher prices) with point C (Republicans) to make that much difference in the midterms.

 

[essentialsaltes]

China already had tariffs against the United States, so, by giving them some of their own medicine, President Trump is trying to push China into agreeing to end their old practice of tariffs against the U.S. at which point Trump would end our tariffs against China so that there can be free trade.

Yes, but in the real world, we find that China has increased tariffs, not ended them. They are refusing to talk to us, not agreeing to anything.

Trump's try does not seem to be having the intended effect. Rather the opposite.

 

[super animator]

Yes, but in the real world, we find that China has increased tariffs, not ended them. They are refusing to talk to us, not agreeing to anything.

Trump's try does not seem to be having the intended effect. Rather the opposite.

*art of the deal*

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

America is dominated by conservatives who are ideologically opposed to invest in the common good.

To be fair there's conservative policies they believe are economical and progressive policies that could be reasonably argued aren't. Obvious examples would be simpler taxation have less and flatter taxes making it easier and cheaper to comply, plus having more money in people's wallet including businesses; on the other side though regulations could be needed, it's possible to over-regulate making it difficult for people and businesses.

Then issues like education are complicated because of the question whether it's constitutional and should be left to the States. Even infrastructure gets caught by it, if it's not inter-state, but I'll admit it's also ideological for both too. I'd rather the Republicans were more Trump-like on issues like infrastructure, but understood we can't massively spend militarily committing ourselves policing the world. If it's seriously a question of constitutionality having limited government, doesn't make sense for them to support broad war powers policies globally.

 

[mama2one]

where husband works, there was a time when most of their products were made in U.S. but to stay competitive, more of their products had to be made in China

wonder if they'll begin to manufacture more in U.S. again vs having products made in China