Child custody

[Crazy Liz]

Oh, one afterthought. The best place for children of divorcing parties is often with a relative. Because in my experience neither parent who is involved in a divorce is in the shape to care for their children. They are just not able to emotionally for some time afterwards. Some parents may put on a better front than others but they are just not in a place to focus on the emotional needs of the child when their whole world is falling apart.

Also putting the children in the place of choosing one parent over the other parent is a terrible thing for a child. a loving third party is often a good neutral place while the emotional transiiton takes place.

This may be true in many cases, but legally the other parent could easily pick the kids up from the third party and establish temporary custody rights. Once there is a court order for temporary custody, it is very hard to change.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard of moms (or dads) losing custody of their kids because they left them temporarily, assuming they should be able to get them back when they got their life together.

Don't kid yourself. The courts give the status quo a lot of weight, even when the situation is only temporary. That's why Marcia Clark fought for custody of her kids while she was in the middle of the OJ Simpson trial, working 6 am-10 pm, and having no time for her kids. Of course they would have been better off with their dad during this time. But she was a lawyer and had many lawyer friends. They told her that if she let them stay with their dad temporarily, she would have a very hard time ever getting them back.

This is hard. The courts are supposed to do what's best for the child, but there is a very strong presumption that what the parents do when they first separate is what they think is best for the children long-term.

 

[Liselle]

I am going to contact my lawyer tomorrow. I'm going to be pre-emptive here, because I think my husband is going to try to take the kids. I went out the other night with a friend after work, and lost track of time, and didn't come home until after 6 am. I just had so much fun talking! The kids were asleep when I would have normally come home and I knew that their dad was here with them. The problem came when DH's schedule changed and I didn't know it. When I got home, everyone was gone, he'd taken the kids to my mom's house and gotten them all worried cos I didn't come home. He'd told the kids that I'd been irresponsible and stuff like that. I really don't think I was. I was out, I wasn't cheating or doing anything illegal or immoral. I didn't call, for 2 reasons. One, we don't have that kind of relationship anymore where we actually care, and 2, I thought everyone would still be asleep when I got home. He's accused me of sleeping around (which in 15 years of marriage, I've never had sex with any one else) and telling me that I'm not fit to be a mother. I DO NOT want to lose my kids.

 

[madison1101]

I am going to contact my lawyer tomorrow. I'm going to be pre-emptive here, because I think my husband is going to try to take the kids. I went out the other night with a friend after work, and lost track of time, and didn't come home until after 6 am. I just had so much fun talking! The kids were asleep when I would have normally come home and I knew that their dad was here with them. The problem came when DH's schedule changed and I didn't know it. When I got home, everyone was gone, he'd taken the kids to my mom's house and gotten them all worried cos I didn't come home. He'd told the kids that I'd been irresponsible and stuff like that. I really don't think I was. I was out, I wasn't cheating or doing anything illegal or immoral. I didn't call, for 2 reasons. One, we don't have that kind of relationship anymore where we actually care, and 2, I thought everyone would still be asleep when I got home. He's accused me of sleeping around (which in 15 years of marriage, I've never had sex with any one else) and telling me that I'm not fit to be a mother. I DO NOT want to lose my kids.

IMO: To go out till 6 am is irresponsible. Priorities are kids first, friends after that in my life. Calling is not about your relationship with your husband, but about your responsibilities to your children. I think you need to get your priorities in order. He can use this against you in a custody battle.

 

[Liselle]

As I said, the kids were in bed asleep. I don't get home from work until after 10 pm. Calling would have done no good. But in hindsight, I can see that it would have the appearance of wrongdoing. Besides, it doesnt matter if I call. Either way, he'll never believe me. He has absolutely no trust in me.

 

[madison1101]

As I said, the kids were in bed asleep. I don't get home from work until after 10 pm. Calling would have done no good. But in hindsight, I can see that it would have the appearance of wrongdoing. Besides, it doesnt matter if I call. Either way, he'll never believe me. He has absolutely no trust in me.

A responsible mother would call home to check on the kids, make sure they were okay, and to let the father know of plans to go out. At that time, you would have learned it was not ok. Not calling was irresponsible. It doesn't matter if he trusts you. It matters if you are a good parent. It seems your social life is more important than your responsiblities to your kids and your home.

Get your priorities in order, or he will have plenty of ammunition against you in a custody battle.

 

[Serving4Christ]

As I said, the kids were in bed asleep. I don't get home from work until after 10 pm. Calling would have done no good. But in hindsight, I can see that it would have the appearance of wrongdoing. Besides, it doesnt matter if I call. Either way, he'll never believe me. He has absolutely no trust in me.

liselle,

Sometimes we have to hear things we don't like to hear. First and foremost, you have a responsibility to the welfare of your family. He DIDN'T get your kids worried, YOU DID. You should accept responsibility for your own actions. He didn't tell you to come home after 6:00a.m. He didn't have the right to tell the kids that if in fact that's what happened. It doesn't change the outcome though, as a result of your actions of not being home after work and notifying him of your plans to be out overnight, he had to make alternate arrangements for the kids and leave not knowing what has happened to his children's mom.

Regardless of all the negative he's done in the past, it doesn't give you the right to throw one back at him. We have to live at a higher standard because we are called to do so. I suggest you take madison1101 advice and seek out your priorities. Parties and friends can wait, you only have one chance in life with your children, don't blow it.

Spoken in love,

 

[Liselle]

This is true. Thank you guys.

 

[Cright]

Liselle,

after going and spending a night in the arms of another man, even just sleeping, there is reason for your husband NOT to trust you. That sort of intimacy is just that intimate and private! It should be reserved ONLY for your husband. It shows love, and you showed love to some stranger that you kissed 20 years ago. I'm sure it was more than a slap in the face to your husband.

You may have decided to take that action because you don't get the affection you need from your husband to feel loved. So many women find "romance" if it can be called that from someone else if their husband doesn't s how it in the PARTICULAR WAY we want it... instead of telling your husband what you need.

My suggestion is to get the book "His Needs, Her Needs" and read it, share it with your husband. Work to save the marriage you promised God that you would. Learn to give your affections ONLY to your family. Work to let them know the type of affection you need so they can provide it for you.

In the mean time, since you've broken his trust, do NOTHING that will make him doubt you until you are through the rough waters and back on solid ground with your family. A night out with friends is NOT worth your marriage falling apart and the pain that you, your husband and your children will experience.

Now is the time to repent, learn and then impress your family with your change. Love them like no other wife/mother can!

Hugs!!!

Carina

 

[Liselle]

I have read that book. I have begged for years for him to read it. I have begged for years for him to go to counseling. He has refused. There are years of verbal abuse, against me, against the kids. I am tired of trying. I was not in the arms of another man, just sitting and talking. Something my husband WILL NOT do with me. Every move I make is the wrong one. I can't take it any more. Like I said earlier, looking back, I can see how decisions I've made might be misconstrued. He told me that tomorrow on his off day, he's going to get some legal advice. I said go for it. I've already got an appointment with my lawyer tomorrow as well.

 

[Serving4Christ]

Liselle,

Again I speak to you in love and nothing more. I sincerely struggled with myself whether I wanted to reply or not, but something compels me to try.

I think some of your anger toward your husband could be a bit of your own pride at this point. You seem rather distraught that your husband doesn't respect you and/or has lost respect for you.

Stop before your reactions spiral into a consequence you may be unable to get out of. I say this because once the ball is rolling, that's what it does...it rolls and rolls and rolls.

Obviously you're hurting. I can sense that reading your posts. I also sense the anger. And if you don't stop the anger now or find an outlet for it besides your husband...it will consume you.

He obvioulsy wants some type of change from you... THE LINES OF COMMUNICATION ARE OPEN STILL. Otherwise he would have never told you he was going to seek some legal advice.

Use it as a chance to ask again for him to go to counseling.

You have to understand that you've placed him in a very tough position. You told him to go get the legal advice. So basically you told him you're ready to divorce him. That's what my wife told me...she said 'go for it, do us both a favor.'

If you want your marriage to work, then I'd have to say that your chances are looking slimmer every day you let go by. He may have been a verbal abusive man to you and the children, but you can't expect any of us here to believe that you weren't equally abusive.

It doesn't matter if you sat up all night with another man talking...YOU DID IT. No one forced you to go outside of your marriage to look for affection but you. Abuse comes in all forms, sizes, and shapes. You abused your husbands trust. You abused the lines of communication by not being open and honest with him and letting him know how you felt before staying out all night with another man. You abused his opportunity to fix what was causing you to seek the attention of another man.

I could go on about him, but this isn't about him right now...this is about you. You have to be certain that you're willing to throw a marriage away. Until you ACCEPT responsibility for everything you may have damaged equally in the marriage, you'll never move towards the forgivenss and acceptance stage. And thus, anger and bitterness longer consume you.



Stop, think, take time to clear your head...think with the heart God gave you before reacting.

 

[madison1101]

Liselle,

I am not sure if you told us or not, but have you tried marital therapy? I strongly recommend that you see if it is something the two of you can do to save your marriage, if you are at all interested in it. My ex at least tried it for a few years before he gave up altogether. It did help stop the nastiness that existed between us.

I hope you are willing to try.

 

[Liselle]

Ok. I have begged him for counseling, begged him to talk to me, begged, cried and pleaded over the years. I simply cannot live this way anymore. I cannot live in a marriage without love. He doesn't say it to me anymore, nor does he show any affection towards me. The look on his face when he does look at me is one of hatred. (possibly less stronger, but I don't know the word for that)

He has called me names in front of the kids, putting me in a bad light to them. I'm not a horrible mother. I was a stay at home mom for more than 10 years. I only recently went to work. I try very hard not to "badmouth" him to our kids. He's a fairly good dad, but the 13 year old has been repeatly called nasty names by him. I cannot respect that and will not stand by and let him verbally destroy my kids.

I have changed alot in the past year, but I'm still me. He simply cannot accept the changes, and expects me to be something I'm not.

I'm not saying I don't have my faults, and I'm sure I've done my fair share of withholding things from him. I know I have. This is just no way to live, and it's not fair to anyone. I want my kids to know that life doesn't have to be this way. They don't have to live in an environment where it's not safe to tell the truth. I did, and all it got me was ammunition against me in a divorce case.

I guess I'm not so much seeking advice as prayers, as this is something we are going to do. I really think we will be better people when we're not living together anymore.

 

[Serving4Christ]

It sounds as if you have your mind made up Liselle, so all I can do is offer my prayers. I know I have a great amount of pain I'm dealing with right now, deep sided dark pain, and I don't wish it on anyone...not even my worst enemy.

I would suggest a marital separation and then proceed to divorce if your heart still tells you that's what is needed. You're still clouded with anger, hurt, and pride to think clearly...right now it seems Satan has the steering wheel and you're wiling to go along for the ride. The rides not fun though...not one bit.

My prayers are with you.

Dan

 

[madison1101]

Ok. I have begged him for counseling, begged him to talk to me, begged, cried and pleaded over the years. I simply cannot live this way anymore. I cannot live in a marriage without love. He doesn't say it to me anymore, nor does he show any affection towards me. The look on his face when he does look at me is one of hatred. (possibly less stronger, but I don't know the word for that)

He has called me names in front of the kids, putting me in a bad light to them. I'm not a horrible mother. I was a stay at home mom for more than 10 years. I only recently went to work. I try very hard not to "badmouth" him to our kids. He's a fairly good dad, but the 13 year old has been repeatly called nasty names by him. I cannot respect that and will not stand by and let him verbally destroy my kids.

I have changed alot in the past year, but I'm still me. He simply cannot accept the changes, and expects me to be something I'm not.

I'm not saying I don't have my faults, and I'm sure I've done my fair share of withholding things from him. I know I have. This is just no way to live, and it's not fair to anyone. I want my kids to know that life doesn't have to be this way. They don't have to live in an environment where it's not safe to tell the truth. I did, and all it got me was ammunition against me in a divorce case.

I guess I'm not so much seeking advice as prayers, as this is something we are going to do. I really think we will be better people when we're not living together anymore.

I am sorry you are having so much trouble. I remember toward the end of my marriage, my husband did not even sleep in the same bed with me. I loved him more and more as he grew more and more distant.

I strongly recommend, regardless of what you do with your marriage, that you seek therapy for yourself. It will help you grow and heal, and learn about yourself, and how you contributed to the marital breakup.

Hugs,
Madison

 

[Liselle]

I am in counseling. I know I have contributed greatly to the downfall of this marriage. S4C, I'm really not angry. It may come across like that, but I'm not angry. Sad, maybe that after so long, he still doesnt know me. We were never friends first. Maybe we'll be friends after the fact. Hurt might be a better word. And a host of other words. But not anger. I've just given up. This wasn't an easy decision to make, but I think it's the right one. We're both just too tired to keep trying anymore.

 

[Liselle]

An update.

I am divorced and relatively happy. Happy about the divorce at any rate. He has physical custody of the 2 youngest kids, and I have physical custody of the oldest. We are each free to see the kids at any time we would like.

There are times when I feel like the worlds most horrible mother. I do not have those feelings of whatever it is that I see other moms have. I love my children, but to be bluntly honest, I do not always miss them. I moved out almost a year ago. I get severely stressed out when I do have my kids for any length of time, and I just feel horrible for feeling that way. I have noticed that holidays are the worst for me as far as making me very emotional, and I realize that it was MY choice to leave them. I still feel like I did the best I could, knowing that I couldn't support them on my own. But still....

Does anyone have any idea why I would feel this way? I'd be happy to supply more information as I'm quite sure I left something out.

And here's the kicker....I'm jealous that my ex has someone in his life. Its not that I don't. I have a wonderful man who loves and respects me. Its just that I want my ex to be miserable. I still get SOOOO angry when I talk to him! I don't want this new girl to come in and be a better mother to MY kids, but I know she will. She is divorced and has 3 of her own. SHE got divorced and took her kids. Something I didn't do. If they get married, my children will have siblings that I don't want to have anything to do with, after all, they're not MY kids. I know I sound like a selfish witch, and I am...

Advice??

 

[Leanna]

My advice for what its worth... Get involved in a church and let God heal and change you. Keep working on forgiveness towards your ex, too. I don't have much else to say though, sorry...

 

[Liselle]

I am involved in a church. I finally found one I like, after I left the one my ex and I tried right before we got divorced. I stopped going for a a long time,b ut I havent missed a sunday since i started going.

It will take God, for sure, to forgive my ex. I really dont like him at all.

Anyone have any thoughts on the question I posed about my kids?

 

[Avaya]

From experience, I've learned that a mother can be pretty crappy and her kids will still love her. Now, from what I've read here, I wouldn't describe you as crappy, so I'd say it's a safe bet that your kids love you no matter what. Some women just aren't domestic in that way - not fawning all over your kids 24/7 doesn't mean you don't love them - I'm sure you do. So don't feel guilty that you don't desire to be at their beck and call or be by their side constantly. Love them in the way that they need to be loved - that's it.

As for your ex's girlfriend. She will be a part of your kids life. That doesn't mean she will take your place, she can't. She will be there to do things for them that you cant do. So what? That doesn't replace you. Based on what you said though it sounds like you have NOT forgiven your ex (or yourself?) for the past. You have to remember that the past is what it is and it can't be changed. Be happy that your ex found someone to love him - he must be okay if you found some reason to love him and have children with him back then. If you get furious when you talk to him, greatly minimize the time you have to talk with him.

Praying it all works out in God's way in God's time!!!!

 

[Autumnleaf]

I have so many questions. I've been married for 14 years, together for 15. I have 3 children, ages 13, 8 and 4. My husband has asked me to move out. Never mind the fact that I asked him to leave 4 months ago or more. He makes double what I make, but won't leave. Actually, that's not the problem. I want to leave. I have a lot of problems that I'm having trouble dealing with. I'm going to start counseling soon, so hopefully that will help. My question is though, if I move out for 6 months, will he have a right to the kids? I love my children, but I need to be alone so that I can find "me" and be a better person and parent. I've got an appointment with a lawyer on Monday, and I'm definitely going to ask that. Just wondering if anyone else had any experience with that.

You are right where you are and no matter where you go there you will be. There is no secret to life you will learn by abandoning your family. You are a wife and a mother. Those are two of the most important jobs in the world. If you fail as a wife you wreck your family. If you fail as a mother you wreck your grandchildren. You can't become better at anything by leaving it for 6 months. Find out why your husband asked you to move out and address it. Love him in a way in which he will reciprocate and he will. Don't fail at this without giving it your best effort. The key lies in trusting God and doing the right thing even when its hard. God knows it isn't always easy.