Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Yes, or else He's just a vengeful and wrathful sort of God. Justice and love are mutually inclusive. But love and evil are not. He loves unconditionally. The only reason that a human can merit eternal punishment is because they've rejected that very love. They've shown by their own lives that they'd rather exist apart from it.Do you believe that God's justice and wrath as expressed by the eternal commitment of the vast majority of humanity to the lake of fire which burns forever and ever is motivated by unconditional love?
I see. So Christians earn salvation (your word) by being humble. That’s something to be proud of.I am not trying to describe a "lottery", but a made-up Spiritual type lottery like what the kingdom is like. Calling it a "lottery" might be hard for you, but some of Jesus' parables are not meant to be exact replications of what happens on earth, but to show what the Kingdom is like, with an earthly story.
We can bypass the earthly analogy and talk about what is happening in the Kingdom:
God is offering Godly type Love, eternal life, and fellowship to all sinners (an unbelievable huge charitable gift) most people will not humble themselves to the point of accepting this gift as pure undeserved charity, but some humbly accept the gift thus taking possession. You seem to be saying: if a person humbly accepts this huge charitable gift, they have thus earned the gift, made themselves worthy of the gift or deserve the gift, while I am saying just humbly accepting pure undeserved charity does not make a person: worthy, deserving nor did he/she earn any part of the gift. How does humbly accepting a charitable gift make the person worthy of the gift is my question?
Because He is God who is worthy of all honor and glory.BECAUSE HE IS LOVE!
Actually, they merit eternal punishment because of unrepentant sin.Yes, or else He's just a vengeful and wrathful sort of God. Justice and love are mutually inclusive. But love and evil are not. He loves unconditionally. The only reason that a human can merit eternal punishment is because they've rejected that very love. They've shown by their own lives that they'd rather exist apart from it.
And this is why it's known and taught by the church that the kind of sin that earns us death, mortal sin, deeds of the flesh such as those outlined in Galatians 5 and elsewhere always directly oppose and destroy love in us and constitute a turning away from love of God and neighbor. We sin to the extent that we lack that love.Actually, they merit eternal punishment because of unrepentant sin.
All sin deserves death.And this is why it's known and taught by the church that the kind of sin that earns us death, mortal sin, deeds of the flesh such as those outlined in Galatians 5 and elsewhere always directly oppose and destroy love in us and constitute a turning away from love of God and neighbor. We sin to the extent that we lack that love.
I specifically said: "I am saying just humbly accepting pure undeserved charity does not make a person: worthy, deserving nor did he/she earn any part of the gift."I see. So Christians earn salvation (your word) by being humble. That’s something to be proud of.
There’s not a thing that ever makes us worthy. That’s your position. My position is that our righteousness is imputed to us.I specifically said: "I am saying just humbly accepting pure undeserved charity does not make a person: worthy, deserving nor did he/she earn any part of the gift."
And asked you:
"How does humbly accepting a charitable gift make the person worthy of the gift is my question?"
We are "righteous" because God has forgiven our sins, we than automatically have n unbelievable huge Love and the indwelling Holy Sirit, so why would imputed righteousness be needed?There’s not a thing that ever makes us worthy. That’s your position. My position is that our righteousness is imputed to us.
The Westminster Shorter Catechism starts with this question.
What is the chief end of man?
Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.
I agree with this because there is nothing greater than His glory. It’s the culmination of all we know about Him. Some have argued that God is more interested in loving us than He is with His glory. If this is true, then the Westminster divines got this wrong. Our chief end should be to love one another.
I think they got it right. God is very concerned about His glory because there is nothing greater. We can’t put an attribute of God (love for instance) above His glory for two reasons. One, God is singular and we cannot divide his attributes like ingredients in a cake. So one can’t be singled out over another. Two, His glory is the culmination of His attributes. So to pull one out (if it was possible) and put it over the culmination of His attributes would make no sense.
You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.
— Psalm 22:23
That’s a good command. We should follow it.
Yes, or else He's just a vengeful and wrathful sort of God. Justice and love are mutually inclusive. But love and evil are not. He loves unconditionally. The only reason that a human can merit eternal punishment is because they've rejected that very love. They've shown by their own lives that they'd rather exist apart from it.
Because we have no righteousness of our own.We are "righteous" because God has forgiven our sins, we then automatically have n unbelievable huge Love and the indwelling Holy Sirit, so why would imputed righteousness be needed?
Our "righteousness" comes from God's forgiveness, resulting in Godly type Love and the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.Because we have no righteousness of our own.
No, our righteousness is credited to us.Our "righteousness" comes from God's forgiveness, resulting in Godly type Love and the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Romans 4:3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”No, our righteousness is credited to us.
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
— Romans 4:3
This is true. Justification entails not only the remission of sin but also the power now, by the Spirit, to overcome sin. Man's righteousness comes only by virtue of union with God. And this relationship is established as we turn to Him in faith. Jesus came to reveal the true God, so that we'll know Him for ourselves and by knowing Him we'll come to believe in, hope in, and love Him. Again, all genuine righteousness flows from that relationship- and that relationship is what distinguishes the new covenant from the old.Romans 4:3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Romans 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
“Credit” is like a reward or payment, but the charitable gift of righteousness, does not come from “works”, but our faith.
Our faith provides our righteousness, Our faith (trust) in God causes us to humbly accept His forgiveness (Charity) thus providing us with Love.
That is so twisted from the plain meaning of the text. We believe, and we have righteousness imputed (credited) to us.Romans 4:3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Romans 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.
“Credit” is like a reward or payment, but the charitable gift of righteousness, does not come from “works”, but our faith.
Our faith provides our righteousness, Our faith (trust) in God causes us to humbly accept His forgiveness (Charity) thus providing us with Love.
Are our sins forgiven and if so why does that along with what automatically happen with the acceptance of God's forgiveness not make us righteous?That is so twisted from the plain meaning of the text. We believe, and we have righteousness imputed (credited) to us.
There's a reason why God declares man righteous or credits righteousness to him when man believes. It's because that is the first right step or act man can make, reversing Adam's lack of belief in God. Adam thought he didn't need God, that he could determine morality for himself, that he knew better than God-and all man's unrighteousness stems from the alienation from God that resulted. Man must come to recognize God as His God again, that He exists and that we need Him desperately. Man cannot be who he was created to be if apart from God, and all true righteousness is based on restoring union with Him. That's why Jesus came, to restore faith, and then hope in, and, ultimately and most importantly, love for, God. That's why faith pleases God immensely, as faith is the basis of restored justice/righteousness to God's wayward creation.No, our righteousness is credited to us.
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
— Romans 4:3
Because that only wipes away the negative. It doesn’t give us a positive. There’s more to righteousness than lack of sin.Are our sins forgiven and if so why does that along with what automatically happen with the acceptance of God's forgiveness not make us righteous?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?