Cheap Grace

[Frogster]

Well, I certainly pity the Jews for Jesus today as it is utterly impossible for them to keep these laws. They must be under the eternal wrath of God as a result.

true, gal 3:10.

 

[Frogster]

Don't be silly. First off, we are to keep only the ones that apply to us, the ones we CAN keep. Second, if we fail, we repent and return to the way. It has always been so.

who is "us"?...oppppps...sorry., i forgot, u think there are 2 churches, a jewish church, and a gentile church, a torn body.

 

[Frogster]

Read the prophets. They say there will be a new covenant and Jesus said that New Covenant is now in effect. It is recorded 3 times in the Gospels.

yup he is now mediating it, hebrews is clear on that, and paul was a new cov minister as you know, keep up the good work!

 

[Frogster]

Quite.

why did God abolish the old cov?

Why did peter say "we" could not bear it, the law,. putting himself in the "we" in Acts 15:10?


10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

sis, it is time to move on, lets let go of the law, it is a yoke!..

 

[Frogster]

Actions are one of the simplest ways to set a person aside.

not really fakes can do good deeds, so you can't always go by that.

 

[Frogster]

Well, now I know more about your sex life than I ever cared to know. You still have not told me how you keep God's commandments regarding the various Sabbaths and feast days with their associated sacrifices.

I like the way you handled this, good reply!

 

[Meowzltov]

who is "us"?...oppppps...sorry., i forgot, u think there are 2 churches, a jewish church, and a gentile church, a torn body.

Not two churches. Two groups within one Church. Just as i.e. men and women are two groups. Just as i.e. clergy and laity are two groups.

 

[Meowzltov]

Lev 26:14 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

"All" refers to all that apply to you and all you CAN keep. I've explained this before. Learn form she who has studied Jewish law. God is not a sadist. He doesn't expect you to keep what is impossible for you to do.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is a considerable difference between saying "What I CAN obey I will" and saying "I'll obey whatever I want." Don't stuff words in my mouth because I'll most likely just choke and spit them out in your face. Neither of us wants that. My dear you really must fight fair with me.

Fair enough. You told me that the commandment given to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply is in effect for all Jews today, did you not?

 

[Meowzltov]

Fair enough. You told me that the commandment given to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply is in effect for all Jews today, did you not?

I don't remember a discussion with you, but yes it's true. The rule among the Orthodox is to try to have one child of each sex. I have done so.

 

[Frogster]

Not two churches. Two groups within one Church. Just as i.e. men and women are two groups. Just as i.e. clergy and laity are two groups.

there are no jew or greek "groups", men or women "groups" in the church, we are supposed to be one in the faith, so you are wrong as usual. One faith..not 2.



28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
.

 

[Frogster]

"All" refers to all that apply to you and all you CAN keep. I've explained this before. Learn form she who has studied Jewish law. God is not a sadist. He doesn't expect you to keep what is impossible for you to do.

then don't touch anything that will defile you. lol...


besides, by your own omission about your sexual preferences here on the forum, you do not keep what you are can...because internally if you look at another mans or woman lustfully, one committed adultery already, as per Jesus.

I say that with all due respect, but you did say what you said, no offense, just proving another point. You made it public knowledge. Thank you, have a good day, frog.

 

[Meowzltov]

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

It means we are equal before God. However here on earth we are treated differently. For example, wives are to submit themselves to their husbands, while husbands are to love their wives as christ loved the church (much harder really). Ordained presbyters and bishops have teaching authority and the responsibility to lay hands on the sick while laity do not. Etc.

 

[Meowzltov]

besides, by your own omission about your sexual preferences here on the forum, you do not keep what you are can

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Frogster]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't remember a discussion with you, but yes it's true. The rule among the Orthodox is to try to have one child of each sex. I have done so.

So, you admit that you agree with a group which has decided to determine what it wants to believe concerning this commandment? It was only very recently that the one-child policy was enacted in China and the two-child policy in other first-world countries. Traditionally, the command to be fruitful and multiply was not seen as being limited to two children - one of each gender. What does a person do who produces multiple children of one gender? In China if there is more than one girl it is typical practice to abort all succeeding girls until a boy is produced. That is their interpretation of what it means to be fruitful and multiply.

In any event, the fact has been established that you have chosen to determine how and whether to obey God's commandments. You are not in the slightest bit different than any of the multitude of other legalists who mistakenly think they are pleasing to God because of their particular form of inventing and determining which laws they wish to obey.

 

[Lulav]

God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist.

I would appreciate it if in the future you would be more clear about what your question is. It took you three tries to get to the point, and consequently you wasted a lot of my time in the process.

Really OH, you are just wasting your time, they have never understood the ketubah, nor do they want to. They do not want to 'know' G-d and know what pleases him. They only want to defend being lawless covered in 'grace'.

They don't get that the Torah (the 613) was given to a whole nation, the 'ten' are headings of that law. Jesus explained it very well, yet they choose to ignore him.
They also don't understand that not one person can keep all the laws as they are for a nation, for particular people (Levites, men of certain ages, men who have just gotten married, women,etc). G-d never gave them and expected every individual to keep them, but they don't grasp that concept.

And another thing they continue to ignore is that Jesus himself was sinless, yet he did not keep all 613, but what pertained to him. If they could only grasp that it would save us lots of time trying to explain it to them.

They also believe that when James said:

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

That James was speaking of all 613, which we know is impossible. By the laws he does mention we see that he is speaking of the 'ten'. He is explaining in a condescending way that you can't keep the second greatest commandment to love your neighbor by not committing adultery but you kill someone you are guilty of both. He could have given an example with each of the ten and this is what Jesus was teaching.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And that is what I built this visual aid upon.

 

[Lulav]

then don't touch anything that will defile you. lol...


besides, by your own omission about your sexual preferences here on the forum, you do not keep what you are can...because internally if you look at another mans or woman lustfully, one committed adultery already, as per Jesus.

I say that with all due respect, but you did say what you said, no offense, just proving another point. You made it public knowledge. Thank you, have a good day, frog.

You really think you can judge what goes on in her mind? Being attracted to someone and thinking lustful thoughts are two different things. And you are not speaking with respect at all. You are just using what someone shared against them to further your own agenda, and you are judging. And by that you too will also be judged.

Why don't you refer to what Jesus taught on everything else? No, instead you go to Paul which you hold in higher esteem.

 

[Rajni]

they have never understood the ketubah, nor do they want to. They do not want to 'know' G-d and know what pleases him. They only want to defend being lawless covered in 'grace'.

You really think you can judge what goes on in her mind? [...] You are just using what someone shared against them to further your own agenda, and you are judging. And by that you too will also be judged.

Hmmmm...

-

 

[Meowzltov]

You are not in the slightest bit different than any of the multitude of other legalists who mistakenly think they are pleasing to God because of their particular form of inventing and determining which laws they wish to obey.

You are trying so hard to prove this, and failing every time.