Cheap Grace

[listed]

How can you be doing just fine in God's sight if you believe that only the Jewish believers such as yourself are required by God to keep all of the Sabbath laws and various feast laws? Maybe you think you are doing just fine, but when was the last time you kept any of these laws as God gave them through Moses to Israel?

Good question.

 

[Meowzltov]

No way is Hebrews only referring to part of the Old Covenant.

Do you honestly think Hebrews is telling us it is now okay for us to murder, steal, and commit adultery?

 

[Meowzltov]

How can you be doing just fine in God's sight if you believe that only the Jewish believers such as yourself are required by God to keep all of the Sabbath laws and various feast laws? Maybe you think you are doing just fine, but when was the last time you kept any of these laws as God gave them through Moses to Israel?

I don't like to toot my own horn, but you have directly asked.

I don't commit adultery. As a bisexual, I'm tempted to sex with both genders, including with those who are married, but I don't give in. The truth is, as I'm presently unmarried, I'm celibate, and have been so for the last 15 years.

 

[listed]

Do you honestly think Hebrews is telling us it is now okay for us to murder, steal, and commit adultery?

So you seem to believe I am promoting sin. Why?

 

[Meowzltov]

Why do you not keep them if it is possible? Yes I am talking specifically about the 4th.

You did not read me carefully. I said we are to keep the ones we CAN keep which apply to us. I assume that by the fourth commandment you mean the Sabbath (it depends on how you number them). I do keep the Sabbath. I keep it to Conservative standards, but not to Orthodox standards, so like I do flip lightswitches and drive. But I don't turn on my stove, for example, or enter a place of business. I don't even do my dishes.

 

[Meowzltov]

So you seem to believe I am promoting sin. Why?

Laws against sin are part of the Old Covenant -- indeed that was its main gist.

 

[Lulav]

No. Holy means set aside for a specific use. Holiness is not measured by our actions.

Sorry, but holiness is setting something or someone apart to G-d from the heathens. When it regards a person they must choose to separate themselves, or not.

 

[Lulav]

Read the prophets. They say there will be a new covenant and Jesus said that New Covenant is now in effect. It is recorded 3 times in the Gospels.

I daresay you should be the one studying up on the prophets.

Yes, and the key words are 'there will be' future tense, back when it was written and still today. Does everyone know G-d? Do you know without reading the Bible G-ds laws? The answer to those questions is 'No'.

I will put my law (Torah) in their minds

and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people.

No longer will they teach their neighbor,

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,”

 

[Lulav]

You did not read me carefully. I said we are to keep the ones we CAN keep which apply to us. I assume that by the fourth commandment you mean the Sabbath (it depends on how you number them). I do keep the Sabbath. I keep it to Conservative standards, but not to Orthodox standards, so like I do flip lightswitches and drive. But I don't turn on my stove, for example, or enter a place of business. I don't even do my dishes.

Quite.

 

[Meowzltov]

No. Holy means set aside for a specific use. Holiness is not measured by our actions.

Actions are one of the simplest ways to set a person aside.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't like to toot my own horn, but you have directly asked.

I don't commit adultery. As a bisexual, I'm tempted to sex with both genders, including with those who are married, but I don't give in. The truth is, as I'm presently unmarried, I'm celibate, and have been so for the last 15 years.

Well, now I know more about your sex life than I ever cared to know. You still have not told me how you keep God's commandments regarding the various Sabbaths and feast days with their associated sacrifices.

 

[Meowzltov]

Well, now I know more about your sex life than I ever cared to know. You still have not told me how you keep God's commandments regarding the various Sabbaths and feast days with their associated sacrifices.

I though the question was how I kept the Mosaic law? Well, since you are asking a more specific question, I will answer that I keep Sabbath to Conservative standards. Not to Orthodox standards so I do switch lights on and off and I drive on Shabbat. But for example I don't light my stove or go to places of business; I don't even do my dishes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I though the question was how I kept the Mosaic law? Well, since you are asking a more specific question, I will answer that I keep Sabbath to Conservative standards. Not to Orthodox standards so I do switch lights on and off and I drive on Shabbat. But for example I don't light my stove or go to places of business; I don't even do my dishes.

Specifically, do you offer the required sacrifices at the Temple for the various Sabbath and feast ordinances? Of course you don't - because there is no Temple nor is there a Levitical priesthood. Therefore, why do you think that the Lord holds Jewish Christians to the Law when, in fact, they don't, and can't, obey it? Or do you think God is pleased when you rewrite the Law for Him?

 

[Meowzltov]

Specifically, do you offer the required sacrifices at the Temple for the various Sabbath and feast ordinances? Of course you don't - because there is no Temple nor is there a Levitical priesthood. Therefore, why do you think that the Lord holds Jewish Christians to the Law when, in fact, they don't, and can't, obey it? Or do you think God is pleased when you rewrite the Law for Him?

God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist.

I would appreciate it if in the future you would be more clear about what your question is. It took you three tries to get to the point, and consequently you wasted a lot of my time in the process.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist.

I would appreciate it if in the future you would be more clear about what your question is. It took you three tries to get to the point, and consequently you wasted a lot of my time in the process.

Your fellow lawkeepers might disagree with you, but I leave that up to them. In essence, you have answered my question that you believe that God, not being a sadist, has given you carte blanche to pick and choose which laws you think He wants you to obey. I would caution that you are on a very slippery slope.

I would also appreciate it greatly if you would take the time to read my posts. The question was written for you three times in the very same format before you actually understood. My time also happens to have a certain value to myself.

 

[Meowzltov]

In essence, you have answered my question that you believe that God, not being a sadist, has given you carte blanche to pick and choose which laws you think He wants you to obey.

You have not read my posts very well. Please go back and review them again.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist.

I would appreciate it if in the future you would be more clear about what your question is. It took you three tries to get to the point, and consequently you wasted a lot of my time in the process.

You have not read my posts very well. Please go back and review them again.

You wrote, "God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist."

What is there in your post that indicates that you believe that God has given His laws and ordinances for you to obey them and not that God has given you the ability to determine which laws and ordinances that you are capable of obeying or willing to obey?

What you decide you CAN obey may, actually, differ considerably from what God has given the Jewish people to obey.

 

[Meowzltov]

You wrote, "God holds us to the laws that we CAN obey. The ones we can't are freebies. If I'm a slave at Auschwitz, and forced to labor on Shabbat, it's a freebie; I get credit for keeping the sabbath. If there is no temple, and I cannot offer ie. a peace offering, it's a freebie. I hope you understand now how it works. We are not required to keep that which is beyond our abilitiy. God is not some kind of sadist."

What is there in your post that indicates that you believe that God has given His laws and ordinances for you to obey them and not that God has given you the ability to determine which laws and ordinances that you are capable of obeying or willing to obey?

What you decide you CAN obey may, actually, differ considerably from what God has given the Jewish people to obey.

There is a considerable difference between saying "What I CAN obey I will" and saying "I'll obey whatever I want." Don't stuff words in my mouth because I'll most likely just choke and spit them out in your face. Neither of us wants that. My dear you really must fight fair with me.

 

[Frogster]

Hebrews is referring to the sin offerings. Not to keeping the rest of the law.

how many times must you be told that the laws were the base of the old defunct, abolished, expired cov!?

Lev 26:14 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

the stones are even mentioned in heb chapter 9.

 

[Frogster]

No, not the Gentile believers, only the Jewish believers.

one Lord, one faith, one baptism, see Eph 4...one...one...one..one means one, not 2.