Cheap Grace

[Frogster]

So that is what you think of me? Good to know, in context

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.

My sear sister, the all frog likes you, so really lets get past this kind of stuff and talk text.

Why did Peter says "we" here? The Jewish fathers had a yoke, and Peter, Peter is in the "we", why?

Acts 15: Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[Rajni]

Acts 15: Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Couple that with Jesus’s statement that his yoke was easy and his
burden light (Matthew 11:30) for contrast.

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[Lulav]

Couple that with Jesus’s statement that his yoke was easy and his
burden light (Matthew 11:30) for contrast.

-

First you need to know what Jesus was referring to as a yoke and what that meant at the time.

Yoke in ancient Biblical times

 

[Rajni]

First you need to know what Jesus was referring to as a yoke and what that meant at the time.

Yoke in ancient Biblical times

Yes, that is one way of looking at it.

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[Lulav]

Yes, that is one way of looking at it.

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Yes and the more likely since it shows the meaning of the word to them you used it.

 

[Rajni]

Yes and the more likely since it shows the meaning of the word to them you used it.

Plus, obedience to 613 commandments would be an easy
yoke and a light burden to someone like Jesus -- assuming
he was God, of course!

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[TheBarrd]

Plus, obedience to 613 commandments would be an easy
yoke and a light burden to someone like Jesus -- assuming
he was God, of course!

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"Love one another" is the burden.
"As I have loved you would" be the yoke.

 

[Rajni]

"Love one another" is the burden.
"As I have loved you would" be the yoke.

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[Meowzltov]

Because a workless faith is dead, meaning it is not faith. Faith is very much alive. You will recognize those who have true faith by the fruit that is produced. The fruits of the spirit. You know what they are. The fruits of the spirit is the work faith produces.

That's another way to say it. I only get ornery with those who try to divide faith and works, and then after dividing them, shout,"Faith alone!"

 

[JustHisKid]

That's another way to say it. I only get ornery with those who try to divide faith and works, and then after dividing them, shout,"Faith alone!"

They only do that because it is by grace that we are saved, through faith. We know that no works can or will save us. Works are only a result of faith. The work of God is to believe on the one whom He has sent. When you truly believe, out of your life flows fruit.

 

[Meowzltov]

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul could have just as easily have written, "And if by grace, then it is no more of faith: otherwise grace is no more grace." Because ultimately it is God who saves us by his grace. It is ALL about grace. We don't earn it, not with our faith, and not with our works.

Now that we've got EARNING properly cleared up, it is still true that we are saved by grace THROUGH a working faith. The very fact that we can offer up a working faith is itself a work of grace.

In that context, it is still a working faith.

Now, my guess is that what I just said didn't fit into your boxes, and that blows your mind. So the odds are that you will change what I said, pretend that it's "earning grace" again, your favorite straw man (or windmill if you prefer) and you will go on tilting that windmill until the cows come home.

 

[Meowzltov]

They may have been under law In Jerusalem, but the other churches that had Jews in them were not, as I have proved, and 70 AD ended all of that anyway.

You "proved" this? ROTFL you have a great sense of humor.

 

[Meowzltov]

Works are only a result of faith.

Do you know that our faith is also developed and strengthened by our works? It's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I went through a period of time where I had lost my faith. I was completely miserable. I felt I had lost something valuable, but what could I do? I just didn't believe. Then I DID something. I acted like a Christian. I went through the motions of praying, going to church, examining my conscience, doing good... and over the next few weeks my heart began to soften. I began spontaneously saying thing that sounded suspiciously Christian. My prayers started having heart behind them. Until I was finally able to ask God for help, and know that he would reply. It was a real "re-conversion" experience.

 

[TheBarrd]

Do you know that our faith is also developed and strengthened by our works? It's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I went through a period of time where I had lost my faith. I was completely miserable. I felt I had lost something valuable, but what could I do? I just didn't believe. Then I DID something. I acted like a Christian. I went through the motions of praying, going to church, examining my conscience, doing good... and over the next few weeks my heart began to soften. I began spontaneously saying thing that sounded suspiciously Christian. My prayers started having heart behind them. Until I was finally able to ask God for help, and know that he would reply. It was a real "re-conversion" experience.

Open Heart, that is one of the most beautiful testimonies I think I have ever heard.
You have brought tears to this old lady's eyes....

 

[Meowzltov]

Open Heart, that is one of the most beautiful testimonies I think I have ever heard.
You have brought tears to this old lady's eyes....

Wow, thanks. I'm taken by surprise. I consider myself boring and uninspiring.

 

[TheBarrd]

Wow, thanks. I'm taken by surprise. I consider myself boring and uninspiring.

You aren't either of those things.

 

[bugkiller]

First you need to know what Jesus was referring to as a yoke and what that meant at the time.

Yoke in ancient Biblical times

A yoke is exactly the same thing these days. A yoke was a binding device place on an animal to pull a burden. It was most common to yoke (bind two animals together) for work. The animal had to be very close to equal for the yoke to work properly. This is why an individual had a marched team. This is what Paul was getting at about being unequally yoked to an unbeliever.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That's another way to say it. I only get ornery with those who try to divide faith and works, and then after dividing them, shout,"Faith alone!"

Yup sure enough Rom 6:23 is an outrageous lie.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Paul could have just as easily have written, "And if by grace, then it is no more of faith: otherwise grace is no more grace." Because ultimately it is God who saves us by his grace. It is ALL about grace. We don't earn it, not with our faith, and not with our works.

Now that we've got EARNING properly cleared up, it is still true that we are saved by grace THROUGH a working faith. The very fact that we can offer up a working faith is itself a work of grace.

In that context, it is still a working faith.

Now, my guess is that what I just said didn't fit into your boxes, and that blows your mind. So the odds are that you will change what I said, pretend that it's "earning grace" again, your favorite straw man (or windmill if you prefer) and you will go on tilting that windmill until the cows come home.

What works (of anything) did the thief cross have?

bugkiller

 

[Meowzltov]

Yup sure enough Rom 6:23 is an outrageous lie.

It doesn't say faith alone. It says faith, and it says not works. but it never says faith alone. So we learn from this verse that faith is part of the pie, and works alone doesn't cut the cake. Boy those were tasty metaphors.