Cheap Grace

[Frogster]

Heb 4:2 'The GOSPEL was preached to us just as it was to them also"
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.
Heb 11 the OT saints saved by pursuing "Righteousness which is by faith"
Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel.
John 8 "Abraham saw My day and was glad".
1 Cor 10 "they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ"
1 Peter 1 OT prophets saw "the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow"

green, but the grace did not come until the gospel, said peter. he said would come, they did not have it when they searched for it, why search for what one has? It came via the gospel, Peter said.


1 Peter 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

 

[Frogster]

Heb 4:2 'The GOSPEL was preached to us just as it was to them also"
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.
Heb 11 the OT saints saved by pursuing "Righteousness which is by faith"
Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel.
John 8 "Abraham saw My day and was glad".
1 Cor 10 "they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ"
1 Peter 1 OT prophets saw "the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow"

Paul said the gospel was hidden..

Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began

They did not know about it in other generations!



Eph 3:4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:

It was hidden ON GOD for ages..


Eph 3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

Heb 4:2 was a stretch, show where they had the gospel preached to them? It just meant they had their good news, but it was not the gospel.

So that is that.

 

[Frogster]

Heb 4:2 'The GOSPEL was preached to us just as it was to them also"
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham.
Heb 11 the OT saints saved by pursuing "Righteousness which is by faith"
Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel.
John 8 "Abraham saw My day and was glad".
1 Cor 10 "they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ"
1 Peter 1 OT prophets saw "the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow"

green, no , they were not saved until the cross, the OT people.

hwb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 

[Frogster]

I said all that needed to be said.



Is that how you see it? Do you believe that there was no truth in the Covenant G-d made with Israel? These same laws that Jesus obeyed? and taught others to obey?

G-ds law is G-ds law, do you believe he changed his mind? Do you believe that Moses made up the commandments not G-d? Do you believe that Jesus was not the messenger of G-d?

"'Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,' says the L-RD of hosts"

Ah, no, didn't you read my response that you are quoting?

'For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ."

These are not in opposition.



See above.

green above, no, the cov Jesus was under was not the new cov, that did not come until the sprinkling, see Heb 12:24.


NOT... Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

 

[Frogster]

You don't have much to say about the scripture......why???
Jhn 1:17


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The scriptures is showing that the law was the covenant taught by Moses but grace and truth is the New Covenant taught by Jesus Christ. They're not the same message or messenger. We're not saying that the law opposes grace, that's your argument.
We're saying that the law and grace are not the same message or covenant.

Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[Sophrosyne]

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is how one who considers the cost of our salvation so expensive that ANY thing we do to try and recompense for it is utterly MEANINGLESS. In other words works added to Grace CHEAPENS it. If I tried to give someone a very expensive gift and they refused to take it unless I accepted a dollar from them I would probably consider withdrawing my offer as a dollar to me is an insult and not an action of a friend either the friend either needs to cough up a substantial portion of the value of the gift or accept it graciously. If you give someone a hundred dollars why would you consider accepting a dollar back from them as it only makes the gift now worth 99 dollars and that it what adding works to the free gift of Grace does.... it SUBTRACTS from the value of it.

 

[Lulav]

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is how one who considers the cost of our salvation so expensive that ANY thing we do to try and recompense for it is utterly MEANINGLESS. In other words works added to Grace CHEAPENS it. If I tried to give someone a very expensive gift and they refused to take it unless I accepted a dollar from them I would probably consider withdrawing my offer as a dollar to me is an insult and not an action of a friend either the friend either needs to cough up a substantial portion of the value of the gift or accept it graciously. If you give someone a hundred dollars why would you consider accepting a dollar back from them as it only makes the gift now worth 99 dollars and that it what adding works to the free gift of Grace does.... it SUBTRACTS from the value of it.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the L-RD.
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Sophrosyne]

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the L-RD.
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

So in other words if someone offered you a gift of a billion dollars.... free, no strings attached you wouldn't accept it unless they accepted a dollar from you?

 

[Lulav]

Paul said the gospel was hidden..

Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began

They did not know about it in other generations!

"Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, 'Here I am.'" 7 How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news Gospel) , Who announces peace And brings good news of happiness, Who announces salvation (Yeshua/Jesus) , And says to Zion, "Your God reigns!"





Isaiah 52

 

[Lulav]

So in other words if someone offered you a gift of a billion dollars.... free, no strings attached you wouldn't accept it unless they accepted a dollar from you?

You really didn't read that scripture, did you?

 

[Frogster]

"Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, 'Here I am.'" 7 How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news Gospel) , Who announces peace And brings good news of happiness, Who announces salvation (Yeshua/Jesus) , And says to Zion, "Your God reigns!"





Isaiah 52

gosh, Isaiah also talked about gentiles in several passages, but you ignore the time frame.

 

[Lulav]

So in other words if someone offered you a gift of a billion dollars.... free, no strings attached you wouldn't accept it unless they accepted a dollar from you?

"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

 

[Lulav]

gosh, Isaiah also talked about gentiles in several passages, but you ignore the time frame.

You said that the gospel was not known before the cross, I proved you wrong, deal with it.

 

[Frogster]

"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

so? Jesus forgave here then, but the redemption had not come, until the cross event. pleaer read Paul on rom 5!

 

[Sophrosyne]

You really didn't read that scripture, did you?

Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.

 

[Frogster]

You said that the gospel was not known before the cross, I proved you wrong, deal with it.

I have posted, you may want to deal with my posts.

peter said the grace came, by those who preached the Gospel in 1 peter 1, please..

where did barnabas see the grace, antioch or Jerusalem?




11:23 When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose11:

 

[Frogster]

Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.

 

[James Is Back]

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the L-RD.
As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What does this verse have anything to do with Grace being free?

 

[Lulav]

What does this verse have anything to do with Grace being free?

It was in reply to this

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is how one who considers the cost of our salvation so expensive that ANY thing we do to try and recompense for it is utterly MEANINGLESS. In other words works added to Grace CHEAPENS it. If I tried to give someone a very expensive gift and they refused to take it unless I accepted a dollar from them I would probably consider withdrawing my offer as a dollar to me is an insult and not an action of a friend either the friend either needs to cough up a substantial portion of the value of the gift or accept it graciously. If you give someone a hundred dollars why would you consider accepting a dollar back from them as it only makes the gift now worth 99 dollars and that it what adding works to the free gift of Grace does.... it SUBTRACTS from the value of it.

G-d grace is not comparable, but that person didn't get it, I guess you don't either.

 

[Lulav]

Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.

I answered you first with a scripture you apparently didn't understand the relevance of, if you still don't how else to continue?

I'll break it down for you. You are using a human example to explain G-ds grace yet when it's shown to have existed before you say it isn't the same. You are imposing your understanding to explain the favor of G-d which has been an ongoing things since the garden.