Chat thread - Egalitarian Christians edition

[peaceful-forest]

I saw in another section of the forum that there was a chat thread.

We should have one too!

We can talk about anything.

 

[peaceful-forest]

I used to go to a big and rich (Southern) Baptist church years ago. I was one of those few singles that attended that church and I wanted to meet a single Christian man there. The church was against allowing a singles Bible study group, claiming that they "had better things to focus on". This church was one of those churches that placed big emphasis on telling others about the Gospel.

After listening to people like Sheila Wray Gregoire, Beth Allison Barr, etc. I believe I know why that church was against having a singles group - because the leadership of that church has a lust problem. All the leaders are married men, no women. It was wrong to allow singles to congregate together, but...

• they had meetings for men in the church that struggled with lust (not sure if they still have this program or not)
• they are allowing Christian groups to congregate there separately from the church, and one of the groups nobody speaks English
• the church is expanding themselves and allowing non-essential things to be built on their property, like a gym. Yes, you saw that right, a gym. How is this advancing the Gospel?

Why were they against a singles group but are allowing all these other things in?

 

[PloverWing]

I think a chat thread is a great idea. Thanks for starting it!

I don't know what your church had in mind when they forbade the Singles Bible Study group. Was it something they couldn't directly control, perhaps, since all the leaders were married? I'd have to see the atmosphere of that particular church.

The Southern Baptist church I attended while I was in grad school (and while I was still figuring out which denomination should be my home) had a Singles Sunday School class, and I think they wanted us to pair up with each other and become nice Baptist married couples. Not sure why your church didn't have the same goal.

 

[peaceful-forest]

Was it something they couldn't directly control, perhaps, since all the leaders were married? I'd have to see the atmosphere of that particular church.

As more people were asking for a singles group, reputable church members stepped up and offered to lead the singles class. The church still said no, and that was when they said "we have more important things to focus on".

It makes me wonder if it was because only single women were asking. The former pastor of the church once told us in a sermon "ladies, don't marry unbelievers" but the church seems to have a problem with singles meeting each other at church. It makes no sense. That's why I was thinking it was a "man problem" and/or a "lust problem" because I think they would have a different attitude if the men had asked.

From what a family member has told me about that church, they are increasingly hung up on money. And now they have this outrageous plan to add things to the church that aren't good (like the gym).

I think they were like the other churches who just see singles as outsiders.

 

[Freth]

I used to go to a big and rich (Southern) Baptist church years ago. I was one of those few singles that attended that church and I wanted to meet a single Christian man there. The church was against allowing a singles Bible study group, claiming that they "had better things to focus on". This church was one of those churches that placed big emphasis on telling others about the Gospel.

After listening to people like Sheila Wray Gregoire, Beth Allison Barr, etc. I believe I know why that church was against having a singles group - because the leadership of that church has a lust problem. All the leaders are married men, no women. It was wrong to allow singles to congregate together, but...

• they had meetings for men in the church that struggled with lust (not sure if they still have this program or not)
• they are allowing Christian groups to congregate there separately from the church, and one of the groups nobody speaks English
• the church is expanding themselves and allowing non-essential things to be built on their property, like a gym. Yes, you saw that right, a gym. How is this advancing the Gospel?

Why were they against a singles group but are allowing all these other things in?

I had occasion to visit a church after a funeral for a friend's wife. The pastor, at the funeral home, gave a prayer to close the service. Afterward, we went to his church for food. The potluck was being set up in their full sized indoor basketball court. I couldn't believe it when I stepped inside.

Singles being overlooked for married couples seems to be common from what I've been reading on forums. If my church wanted to put in a gym, but shot down a singles group, I would think that my church has its priorities mixed up, and I would speak up about it. The money thing is also a big warning sign to me.

God bless!

 

[PloverWing]

The church I mentioned in my previous post was also building a gym. They called it a "Family Life Center". I wonder if that was a fad in Southern Baptist churches at the time.

 

[peaceful-forest]

The church I mentioned in my previous post was also building a gym. They called it a "Family Life Center". I wonder if that was a fad in Southern Baptist churches at the time.

The church I had gone to, they're making the claim that they are doing it to share the Gospel.

But they couldn't let singles get together in their big church...

In my opinion, that was another opportunity to share the Gospel with unbelieving singles.

 

[Paidiske]

It's my observation - as someone who married relatively young and hasn't experienced this personally, but who has a lot of single friends - that most churches don't seem to recognise, care about, or support the needs of singles. I don't fully understand this either, but perhaps there's just an assumption that we should gear everything to suit the people who are married?

I can't understand why anyone would want to forbid a Bible study group, though. I mean... you have people who want to study Scripture; great! Why on earth would you put obstacles in their way???

I had my last service in my current parish this morning. I'm sitting here with a cup of tea trying to absorb that I really am leaving. It's all a little bit surreal...

 

[PloverWing]

I had my last service in my current parish this morning. I'm sitting here with a cup of tea trying to absorb that I really am leaving. It's all a little bit surreal...

Why is this parish ministry concluding? Was it designed to be temporary (like an interim pastor position), or do you feel a calling to someplace new?

 

[Paidiske]

Neither. Originally it was a three-year appointment, with the idea that it would then be reviewed and either renewed or not. The bishop is disorganised, so I've actually been here just shy of five years, but after my review he decided not to reappoint me.

What he said to me, when he told me, was "It's mostly not your fault. There's a problem in the parish that people have really unrealistic expectations; they wouldn't be happy with Jesus himself." And then I couldn't quote him exactly, but words to the effect that he was removing me from this appointment for the sake of my wellbeing.

Which, you know, is actually fair, as far as it goes; but I'm now on leave for a month and I don't know where I'm going after that, so that's causing some stress in my household...

 

[PloverWing]

I'm glad the bishop is looking out for your wellbeing, but sorry about all the stress. In your church's structure, does the bishop appoint you to a new place, or do you have to go parish-job-hunting on your own?

 

[Paidiske]

If I wanted to stay in this diocese, the bishop could sort me a new place pretty easily (technically the parish would have a right to interview me and say no, but I've learned that in the country, it's so hard to get candidates that they usually say yes to whomever the bishop can find to put in front of them unless they're really obviously not going to work).

But because I'm keen to go outside this diocese - back to a bigger city, if I can manage it - it's more complicated. I'm talking to bishops in three different dioceses about possible appointments. (Two full time parish possibilities, and one where I understand the role would be part time assistant in the cathedral, and part time hospital chaplain, but I need to talk more with that bishop because I haven't had much information about that one yet). So we'll see. I'm hoping to sort out some interviews with parishes in the next week or so.

 

[seeking.IAM]

The church I mentioned in my previous post was also building a gym. They called it a "Family Life Center". I wonder if that was a fad in Southern Baptist churches at the time.

I have been a member of a UMC and an Episcopal Church, both of which had gyms. I do not find it surprising at all. I think it was actually usefully for fellowship among youth and parishioners who still had good knees and brown hair.

 

[PloverWing]

I hope all goes well with your conversations with bishops and parishes.

 

[peaceful-forest]

I have been a member of a UMC and an Episcopal Church, both of which had gyms. I do not find it surprising at all. I think it was actually usefully for fellowship among youth and parishioners who still had good knees and brown hair.

I really can't believe there's other churches that have gyms! I guess the previous church I had gone to was one of the last to get on board.


Lately, I've been listening to some of Zach W. Lambert. He's a pastor at a church in Texas. He said he used to work at a mega church that had a Starbucks in it. He was only making about $15,000 a year, but the leadership there was making 6 - 7 figures. Outrageous.

He was on Sheila Wray Gregoire's last podcast. He had a different interpretation about the Widow's Mite in Matthew and Luke. He said it wasn't meant to be used to tell people to give all your money to God or church, but it was an example of how the Teachers of the Law were hypocrites and were taking things from widows that they weren't supposed to take.

 

[Paidiske]

I listened to that podcast, and thought it was really good. Must get hold of a copy of his book.