Chat over coffee with an elder from JWs

[MoreCoffee]

Jehovah's witnesses form a community that keeps itself rather isolated from any other religious groups except in their door-to-door witnessing work. Few of Jehovah's witnesses will have friends from any Protestant denomination or from the Catholic church because their religion discourages them from forming attachments to anyone and anything 'tainted' by the doctrines and practises of Christendom. Because of this and because of their serious efforts (as a religious community) to equip their members with all the tools they need to do door-to-door witnessing, Jehovah's witnesses, will usually be fairly well acquainted with the passages of scripture from which they draw their distinctive beliefs. Thus, being so well informed about their own beliefs, they usually have no difficulty defending them and - to their own satisfaction - refuting the teachings that Christians bring to the table in discussions with them.

Mostly, in my opinion, one will not make much progress with one of Jehovah's witnesses no matter how much biblical and historical information one presents to them in discussions. A more likely pathway for a Christian to help one of Jehovah's witnesses understand Christian teaching is to be kind and patient and listen to their story/presentation and raise questions only on matters that are clearly outside of scope of Christian orthodoxy and then only on matters with which the Christian is very well acquainted.

 

[Chrystal-J]

No - not at all - they sincerely believe in what they have been taught .

The snag is that here we have an instance of two widely separated beliefs where each side believes that the other is in serious error .

You can talk all you want with them - but they hold very very firmly to their beliefs . So do we of course

Also, their beliefs are fluid. If something doesn't fit with what they're trying to accomplish, they change it. Christmas is one example. They used to celebrate Christmas, but if you were to celebrate it now, you would be kicked out of the JWs. They used to say that ALL JWs are going to heaven. But, since they also believe that heaven only allows for 144,000 souls they had to change that teaching because there are now more than 144,000 JWs. So, (in their teachings) heaven is now "closed" and from now on JWs will live on earth in "perfect human" bodies.
They also said the world was gonna end in 1975. Many people sold their houses and gave the money to the JW Organization. They quit jobs and waited for the end. When 1976 rolled around, many people were left scrambling to find jobs and new homes.
I don't think the general population of the JWs realizes these inconsistencies. They're very regimented in who they can associate with, so they never hear opposing opinions.

 

[Chany]

Also, their beliefs are fluid. If something doesn't fit with what they're trying to accomplish, they change it. Christmas is one example. They used to celebrate Christmas, but if you were to celebrate it now, you would be kicked out of the JWs. They used to say that ALL JWs are going to heaven. But, since they also believe that heaven only allows for 144,000 souls they had to change that teaching because there are now more than 144,000 JWs. So, (in their teachings) heaven is now "closed" and from now on JWs will live on earth in "perfect human" bodies.
They also said the world was gonna end in 1975. Many people sold their houses and gave the money to the JW Organization. They quit jobs and waited for the end. When 1976 rolled around, many people were left scrambling to find jobs and new homes.
I don't think the general population of the JWs realizes these inconsistencies. They're very regimented in who they can associate with, so they never hear opposing opinions.

Well, they hear them. Listening to them is another matter.

 

[Chrystal-J]

Well, they hear them. Listening to them is another matter.

They're given "new light" by their leaders to explain anything that was changed. If they're not old enough to remember something (like the 1975 debacle), then it's never mentioned to them. So, if you were to ask that age group about it, they wouldn't know what you're talking about. And they're told what web-sites they can use and not use, so they never find out about it.

 

[Chany]

They're given "new light" by their leaders to explain anything that was changed. If they're not old enough to remember something (like the 1975 debacle), then it's never mentioned to them. So, if you were to ask that age group about it, they wouldn't know what you're talking about.

I meant it as I could literally disprove every single one of their dogmas and they would still not listen.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I meant it as I could literally disprove every single one of their dogmas and they would still not listen.

Oh, I see. Yeah, they're told anyone who disagrees with their teachings is being used by Satan, so you're probably right.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I remember as a kid when a JW came to my house and my mother told him we had our faith and were not interested in his.

After he supposedly left, myself and some other kids were outdoors sitting on the steps, the JW came back and started preaching to us children, telling us about the end of the world that was coming. He scared the crap out of us and when my mother saw him preaching to us, she told him to leave or she'd be calling the cops.


Anyway, it was their third of fourth predicion of the end of the world that didn't come true.

They chalk it up to miscalculations.

Jim

 

[Chany]

Oh, I see. Yeah, they're told anyone who disagrees with their teachings is being used by Satan, so you're probably right.

My biggest problem with them is the denial of logic. They view logic as evil. However, logic is logic. You can't function without it.

 

[Chrystal-J]

My biggest problem with them is the denial of logic. They view logic as evil. However, logic is logic. You can't function without it.

In the end, the thing that bothered me the most about the JWs was that they consistently used blackmail to get members to do what they want. People in the JWs don't necessarily do the door-to-door witnessing because they want to spread the Word, they often do it because they will be pressured and verbally mistreated if they don't. They also have quotas to complete and they must keep written logs to turn into the leaders.
Here's a sample log:

 

[Rhamiel]

I do not know much about the teachings of the JW
It is nice that you struck up a conversation with one
hope he likes the coffee

 

[Chany]

I do not know much about the teachings of the JW
It is nice that you struck up a conversation with one
hope he likes the coffee

Think LDS type theology. Yeah, you're missing nothing.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I can never get them to stay after i start presenting the Greek words in the NT...
Or explain there are verses that back up Catholicism...etc.

They walk slow at first then they go rather quickly.



I do enjoy a good discussion - except they dont have the answers - only what was pounded into them, so they leave frustrated.

MoreCoffee - i wish you the best. Hope you are successful and it brings forth fruit in many more conversions.

 

[WarriorAngel]

In the end, the thing that bothered me the most about the JWs was that they consistently used blackmail to get members to do what they want. People in the JWs don't necessarily do the door-to-door witnessing because they want to spread the Word, they often do it because they will be pressured and verbally mistreated if they don't. They also have quotas to complete and they must keep written logs to turn into the leaders.
Here's a sample log:

I am very curious about the comments section after visiting me.
How do they code a very persistent person who wont listen to their reasoning? Call again?

Muhahahaha. [And they have]

 

[WarriorAngel]

They're given "new light" by their leaders to explain anything that was changed. If they're not old enough to remember something (like the 1975 debacle), then it's never mentioned to them. So, if you were to ask that age group about it, they wouldn't know what you're talking about. And they're told what web-sites they can use and not use, so they never find out about it.

One JW told me that St John [which proves Jesus is God] was added in 1500 years later.
Mind control, much.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I am very curious about the comments section after visiting me.
How do they code a very persistent person who wont listen to their reasoning? Call again?

Muhahahaha. [And they have]

Usually, if you show any interest at all, they'll be back--because they think they can change your mind. They still knock on my door and they know I'm never going to become a JW.

 

[Chrystal-J]

One JW told me that St John [which proves Jesus is God] was added in 1500 years later.
Mind control, much.

It was told to me that the "real" translation was written to say that the Word (not the same as Jesus) was "a god", as opposed to Jehovah God. So, I often wondered if they felt there was more than one god.

 

[Chany]

Usually, if you show any interest at all, they'll be back--because they think they can change your mind. They still knock on my door and they know I'm never going to become a JW.

My Dad made that mistake. The JW was lucky I was sleeping at the time, or he would have got an earful.

 

[WarriorAngel]

It was told to me that the "real" translation was written to say that the Word (not the same as Jesus) was "a god", as opposed to Jehovah God. So, I often wondered if they felt there was more than one god.

I asked why the Ten Commandments say You shall no other gods before me, BUT every knee shall bend to Jesus? And why is He a god - if not THE ONE GOD?

Chirping.... that's all i heard.

 

[Chany]

I asked why the Ten Commandments say You shall no other gods before me, BUT every knee shall bend to Jesus? And why is He a god - if not THE ONE GOD?

Chirping.... that's all i heard.

That silence is actually not a joke. They simple tune out because you start a logical argument. Let me guess, they just started right along with there presentation like you said nothing, right?

It's kind of like a computer. It has predetermined functions, but when something is done that it can't compute within its functions, it crashes. It then reboots and starts along the same functions over and over again.

 

[WarriorAngel]

That silence is actually not a joke. They simple tune out because you start a logical argument. Let me guess, they just started right along with there presentation like you said nothing, right?

It's kind of like a computer. It has predetermined functions, but when something is done that it can't compute within its functions, it crashes. It then reboots and starts along the same functions over and over again.

I didnt give them that chance...[since the silence was awkward] i kept going however on that same line of thot with the second time - 2 men came - the one [obviously the lead] kept insisting he had others waiting for him. He was getting quite on edge. HE tried to change the subject - but i kept saying 'what's the answer?'

The 1st time, yah he kept trying to go back...again, i wanted answers. I said if your brand is to be believed you should have answers and why havent they taught you ALL of scriptures and give you a few to mimic?
He left speedily.

I forewarned him i would have him yelling at me. He refrained - but his get away was really hasty. Even as i shouted 'Come back, i will bring up the scriptures i quote online...' To no avail.
:o