Charismatic/Pentecostal Calvinist

[Adammi]

Are there any?

 

[Bulldog]

I believe there are, but they're not very common.

 

[douglasdotyii]

I used to define myself as a Charismatic Calvinist. Now for better or worse, I am more of a Calvinist and less of a Charismatic.

 

[Jon_]

I used to define myself as a Charismatic Calvinist. Now for better or worse, I am more of a Calvinist and less of a Charismatic.

Is it okay if I say that I think it is for the better?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[rmwilliamsll]

they do exist, the Evangelical Presbyterian has a few congregations that teach charismatic things. AFAIK it is the only conservative reformed denomination to do so......(looking for more info)

see:
http://www.epc.org/about-epc/position-papers/holy-spirit.html

Q. Is the EPC charismatic?

A. If you mean are we pentecostal, the answer is no. If you mean are we open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the answer is yes.

We believe that the word “charismatic” should not be limited to specific manifestations of the work of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, but “charismatic” does refer to the fact that every Christian receives a gift, or gifts, from the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 12:7,11). In Romans 6:23, Paul states “…the wages of sin is death, but the gift (charism) of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” This means that all who are born again, receiving the gift of life in Jesus Christ, are by virtue of the gift “charismatic” in the broadest sense of the word (Ephesians 4:7).

 

[ClementofRome]

I am most definately not Pentecostal, nor charismatic....however, I am a Whitefield Methodist. A member of the UMC, but staunchly Calvinist....now that is an odd bird!

 

[JamesCarter]

Is it okay if I say that I think it is for the better?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

Could you elaborate on why you think it is for the better to be more Calvinist and less Charismatic? In the Biblical sense of being a Charismatic, don't you think it would be better to be more of that also?

By the way, I haven't taken the opportunity before, but let me just write how much I enjoy your posts. You certainly have a logical mind and a gift of words. I really do enjoy reading you! I can't help but to believe that you have a great future ahead of you!

 

[Antman_05]

I'm One

 

[St. George]

Are there any?

Would not have thought so seeing Calvin was firmly cessationist.

 

[AndOne]

Check out www.soverigngrace.com - as far as I can tell they are for all intensive purposes a ministry that believes in the gifts and is Reformed in their theology. I wouldn't call them Calvinist per se - but they do adhere to and teach the five points. I have been taking an interest in their ministry lately - since my own church is seeking to align with them.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Would not have thought so seeing Calvin was firmly cessationist.

do you have a reference for this?
as i search my memory i don't see that Calvin engaged with the issue. perhaps i am just missing it.
google didn't help me any.

certainly Calvin spoke strongly about continuing revelation that the Anabaptists seemed to believe but i can't think of places he talked about tongues or the like.

see
http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol39/htm/xxi.htm

i scanned Warfield on cessionism at:
http://www.mbrem.com/holy_spirit/miracle1.htm

and don't see references to get me into Calvin's thinking on the subject. so i am at a loss to continue unless you have references at hand.

tia.

 

[St. George]

Calvin: "The gift of healing, like the rest of the miracles, which the Lord willed to be brought forth for a time, has vanished away in order to make the new preaching of the Gospel marvelous forever." (*Institutes*, Battle translation, 1960, p.1467).

"Though Christ does not expressly state whether he intends this gift [of miracles] to be temporary, or to remain perpetually in the Church, yet it is more probable that miracles were promised only for a time, in order to give lustre to the gospel while it was new or in a state of obscurity." (Institutes of the Christian Religion, IV, iii, 4; William Perkins, op. cit., 325.)

 

[Jonih]

I consider myself a charismatic calvinist.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Calvin: "The gift of healing, like the rest of the miracles, which the Lord willed to be brought forth for a time, has vanished away in order to make the new preaching of the Gospel marvelous forever." (*Institutes*, Battle translation, 1960, p.1467).

"Though Christ does not expressly state whether he intends this gift [of miracles] to be temporary, or to remain perpetually in the Church, yet it is more probable that miracles were promised only for a time, in order to give lustre to the gospel while it was new or in a state of obscurity." (Institutes of the Christian Religion, IV, iii, 4; William Perkins, op. cit., 325.)

the problem is the Calvin is referring directly to the miraculous gift of apostolic healing, not the modern idea of glossalia, for instance.

 

[St. George]

the problem is the Calvin is referring directly to the miraculous gift of apostolic healing, not the modern idea of glossalia, for instance.

He is referring to the miraculous sign gifts which include tongues as well as healings and other such sign gifts.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

He is referring to the miraculous sign gifts which include tongues as well as healings and other such sign gifts.

i believe you are reading the modern pentecostal movement back into Calvin. He reads tongues as speaking languages, as what happened at Pentecost where each heard the apostles speaking in their own language.

see: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/tongues.html

Calvin on 'tongues' in I Corinthians 14:2-5

Calvin comments: "The Corinthians were giving undue attention to the gift of tongues, because it was more showy. For it is the case that, when people hear somebody speaking in a foreign language, they are unusually moved to wonderment.... It means a foreign language.... 'Mysteries'...I interpret...as unintelligible, baffling, enigmatic sayings. As if Paul had written, 'Nobody understands a word he says'....

"In our own day...there is a crying need for the knowledge of tongues.... Since the Holy Spirit has bestowed undying honour on tongues..., it is easy to deduce what sort of spirit moves those critics who make strong attacks against the study of languages....

"Paul is referring to all languages...which were such a great help in proclaiming the Gospel among all the nations.... On the other hand..., present-day critics are condemning the languages from which the pure truth of Scripture is to be drawn....

"Do not, however, imagine that Paul is here allowing anybody to waste the time of the Church by muttering foreign words. For how ridiculous it would be to proclaim the same thing in many languages, when there is no need to do so!"

that is why he consistently speaks about healing as the miracle that marked the apostolic church as authentic and from God. It may very well be true that the pentecostal usage of tongues is what Calvin would have called miracelous signs and therefore ceased with the early church, but he doesn't say that because tongues are a different thing for him as they are for us.

...

 

[St. George]

i believe you are reading the modern pentecostal movement back into Calvin. He reads tongues as speaking languages, as what happened at Pentecost where each heard the apostles speaking in their own language.

The gift of tongues is the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign (earthly) language. There is no such thing as a prayer language.

 

[JenniferGreen]

I'm One

You are a Charismatic/Pentecostal Calvinist? Can you expain to me what this means I am a new Christian and I think that it may describe by position.

 

[Adammi]

You are a Charismatic/Pentecostal Calvinist? Can you expain to me what this means I am a new Christian and I think that it may describe by position.

What he probably means is that he believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still working today and he believes in the Teachings of John Calvin (TULIP).

 

[seekingpurity047]

I personally don't consider myself "charismatic", but I guess our definitions of the word differ. I take taht as a style of worship and stuff, like the LOUD music and all that fun stuff (kinda looks like they are performing in front of church somtimes eh? with their hands up in the air AH TANGENT sry...) But, I do believe inm the gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as healing and other languages (not the "tongues" that the pentecostal church woujld think im talking about). I believe that if we have enough faith, we can do the healing thing. As for the other languages, i believe that that can only happen when the Holy Spirit takes complete control, and such a thing is uncontrollable, cuz who can control the Holy Spirit? God = Holy Spirit, therefore uncontrollable, and He does wahtever He wills.

Randy