sorry, this will be pretty long,
zamar,
wrong, read chapters later where they prayed to speak the word with boldness and the holyspirit manifested AGAIN and the entire place was SHAKEN. a shaking building makes much noise. as the the rush of mighty wind makes noise.
these things were caused of the spirit, but it doesnt mean they were anyless physical.
if he made noise then, and again, he can still make noise today, and he does.
the rushing mighty wind, in other translations such as the MOFFAT has been translated BLAST OF WIND. like a tornado.
this is what was NOISED ABROAD. the people heard the sound made by the manifestation. not to forget the noise made by a bunch of men and women, 120 people, speaking in what seemed like a drunken language. yep, alot of noise.
humblejoe
i could also say, "i wish that you all were saved" to a group of sinners. does that mean some arent supposed to be saved?
some had it, some didnt, paul wanted them all too, it doesnt mean some arent supposed to.
and would paul say that if it werent also the will of god?
remember, paul the FATHER of the new testiment church, not disrespecting jesus AS THE HEAD OF THE WHOLE CHURCH. the man who basicly wrote the whole new testament. he knew so much about god, hes were we got our bible from basicly. hed know if it was gods will or not, if any man could. so, would he say that he DESIRED something, that god didnt desire?
i really dont think so.
jesus said, that those who believe will speak with new tongues, if only some will speak with new tongues, then i guess only a chosen few can actually believe the word of jesus, which clearly isnt true, anyone can believe.
IFFY
ill try to answer your questions, sorry i wasnt clear.
1.yeah there are stereotypes.
some hear "PENTECOSTAL" and automaticly think "stupid superspiritual oaf with no common sense".
i once heard a joke.
how many pentecostals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
answer,
11, 1 to screw it in, 10 to bind the darkness! HAHAHA!
see, many see pentecostals as over spiritual, lacking common sense, hyper christians without a brian.
ya know that classic "snake handlers church" thingy that came on tv over and over? were socalled "holiness" or pentecostals handled live rattlesnakes and drank stricknine simple because jesus said wed take up serpents and poisons wouldnt hurt us, but dont test god. see what im saying?
yeah passion is very good, but many think that pentecostals let passion cloud judgement, or replace common sense with passion. im pentecostal myself, i do not agree with them. though there are whackos everywhere you go in all churches.
2. the evidence of being filled with the holyghost, is speaking in tongues.
that is clearly stated in the bible, but dangit, i cant find the scripture.
anyway, yes all believers have the holyghost dwelling in them. but no that isnt the same as being
"filled with the holyghost"
as is quoted from acts 2.4 and other scriptures through the new testament.
the disciples were saved before they were filled, even before jesus died. becuase jesus said in luke 10.20 that there names were written in heavon. and he breathed on them and told them to RECEIVE the holyspirit. and jesus did have the power to forgive sin on earth as he did to more than one person.
they were saved, and the holyspirit dwelt in them. before they were filled with the holyghost in acts 2. there is a diffrence.
one a very down to earth way of speaking, it is a much much higher encounter with god, wherein you are FILLED with the holyspirit, to become full of, and you are endued with power from on high, not the same as simply being saved.
having the holyspirit, and being full of him, are very diffrent. as simply as, a glass having some water, and a glass being full of water, are 2 diffrent things. yet they both hold the same water.
3. the diffrence between the power of the gifts, and simply the power of the believer.
i was trying to show that, no, you dont have to operate in the gifts of the spirit in 1 cor 12. in order to walk in the power of god, as is clearly seen to any bible student.
only those who are "filled with the holyghost" can operate in the gifts, to my knowlegde. like the gift of faith, and healing.
yet, all christians who believe in jesus can have faith, and must have it. and can be healed through asking the father in faith, through the blood of jesus.
the questioned was asked
"Must a person be able to speak in tongue before he/she can
'move in the spirit' (cast out demons, prophesy, etc)"
i was trying to prove, NO, you do not.
you must speak in tongues, to be filled, and operate in the gifts.
but there is much power, and manifestion of god, outside of those 2 things, for those who simply believe.
4. you said,
"Someone (opinions are always questionable) confidently told me that you can't do healing /deliverance if you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit."
i will never believe that.
there is a gift of healing, but that doesnt mean you cant heal someone unless your filled with the spirit, or you would have to say the same for all the gifts and you simply cannot.
there is a gift of faith, yet, all believers have faith.
there is a gift of wisdom, yet there are millions of wise men on the earth, who arent filled, or even know jesus.
there is a gift of healing, yet, many have received healing through simply asking the father in jesus name, and believing, as is clearly the right of every christian, young or old, immature or mature, unfilled or filled.
ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE.
IF YOU CAN BELIEVE "NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU".
jesus would have been wrong, if you have to be filled with holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues in order to do "all things".
the most young immature christian, who has faith in jesus, can work the works of god. just believe.
5. should every person speak in tongues?
you said
"If it is possible, everyone should? People are missing out if they don't?"
i very quickly say, YES!
just as greater faith is something everyone should strive for, as greater knowledge of the word is something everyone should strive for, speaking in tongues is something everyone should strive for.
and sometimes it can be quite difficult to attain becuase many times before a person is filled and speaks in tongues they must clean themselves of things, like smoking or whatever, it can be hard to recieve it. but it is to be sought.
i agree speaking in tongues is very powerful, one reason is simply the prayer is so much more effective. the holyspirit prays for things you dont know to pray for, in ways you dont know how. and so, accomplishes things you simply couldnt. it can and will change your life if used right.
i agree, it all comes down to the heart.
many times in the bible we read of people doing very weird things, praying weird prayers, asking weird things, and nevertheless receiving from god, becuase their hearts were right.
you said
"My relationship with God became intimate when two things happened - baptism of the Holy Spirit and Mom gave me a study Bible! : )"
i agree, it did for me aswell.
but i think the overall purpose of being filled with the holyspirit is to empower us to fullfill a need.
he came TO MAKE US EFFECTIVE WITNESSES, as is stated in the word.
yet, we do become more intamite with god when we receive the filling of the spirit becuase WE NEED THAT to be an effective witness, part of having faith is knowing god personally. and faith is surely needed. so, yes intamicy is needed as well.
i think its to fullfill a need, but you need intamicy with god to do that. so, yes, intamicy does come, but it isnt the overall purpose of the filling and speaking in tongues. am i clear?
yeah, i too think people need to very careful.
many people make big claims, and stuff, and end up being wrong, or it simply does not come true.
like benny hinn, i love the man to death, but some of his predictions, did not come true. homosexaulity was not gone from america by the year 2000, as i recall him saying it would be. but i do think much of his ministry is a very genuine work of god, but no one i know is perfect, i dont expect him to be either.
yeah people mess up, we need to be very very careful.
uhhh, moses? well..... he did do somethings wrong, yeah he messed up.
when we read about the incident at the red sea, moses says
"STAND AND SEE THE SALVATION OF THE LORD!"
and we read god say
WHY DO YOU CRY UNTO ME? STICK OUT YOUR ROD!
moses messed up, he told the people something that wasnt FROM GOD. he told the people to just wait and watch god move, god told him to move instead.
so, yeah, even the great, highly esteemed moses messed up. more than once, yet, i greatly look up to that man.
i wish i made as few mistakes as moses.
well, yeah, we lay ourselves down and throw off pride when we get saved, yet anyone can fall to pride later in life after salvation, and many do. which is undeniable.
so, yes saved people can fall to pride, no matter how much your saved.
im saying many deny that you must speak in tongues to be filled, becuase, that would mean that they arent really filled. and they are proud, so they refuse to believe that.
yet i agree, its not the only excuse people use, the reason you gave about the beliefe that it isnt for today is used aswell.
i hope i asnwered your questions.
i fully understand if you dont believe everything i say. i dont expect you to anyway.
zamar,
wrong, read chapters later where they prayed to speak the word with boldness and the holyspirit manifested AGAIN and the entire place was SHAKEN. a shaking building makes much noise. as the the rush of mighty wind makes noise.
these things were caused of the spirit, but it doesnt mean they were anyless physical.
if he made noise then, and again, he can still make noise today, and he does.
the rushing mighty wind, in other translations such as the MOFFAT has been translated BLAST OF WIND. like a tornado.
this is what was NOISED ABROAD. the people heard the sound made by the manifestation. not to forget the noise made by a bunch of men and women, 120 people, speaking in what seemed like a drunken language. yep, alot of noise.
humblejoe
i could also say, "i wish that you all were saved" to a group of sinners. does that mean some arent supposed to be saved?
some had it, some didnt, paul wanted them all too, it doesnt mean some arent supposed to.
and would paul say that if it werent also the will of god?
remember, paul the FATHER of the new testiment church, not disrespecting jesus AS THE HEAD OF THE WHOLE CHURCH. the man who basicly wrote the whole new testament. he knew so much about god, hes were we got our bible from basicly. hed know if it was gods will or not, if any man could. so, would he say that he DESIRED something, that god didnt desire?
i really dont think so.
jesus said, that those who believe will speak with new tongues, if only some will speak with new tongues, then i guess only a chosen few can actually believe the word of jesus, which clearly isnt true, anyone can believe.
IFFY
ill try to answer your questions, sorry i wasnt clear.
1.yeah there are stereotypes.
some hear "PENTECOSTAL" and automaticly think "stupid superspiritual oaf with no common sense".
i once heard a joke.
how many pentecostals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
answer,
11, 1 to screw it in, 10 to bind the darkness! HAHAHA!
see, many see pentecostals as over spiritual, lacking common sense, hyper christians without a brian.
ya know that classic "snake handlers church" thingy that came on tv over and over? were socalled "holiness" or pentecostals handled live rattlesnakes and drank stricknine simple because jesus said wed take up serpents and poisons wouldnt hurt us, but dont test god. see what im saying?
yeah passion is very good, but many think that pentecostals let passion cloud judgement, or replace common sense with passion. im pentecostal myself, i do not agree with them. though there are whackos everywhere you go in all churches.
2. the evidence of being filled with the holyghost, is speaking in tongues.
that is clearly stated in the bible, but dangit, i cant find the scripture.
anyway, yes all believers have the holyghost dwelling in them. but no that isnt the same as being
"filled with the holyghost"
as is quoted from acts 2.4 and other scriptures through the new testament.
the disciples were saved before they were filled, even before jesus died. becuase jesus said in luke 10.20 that there names were written in heavon. and he breathed on them and told them to RECEIVE the holyspirit. and jesus did have the power to forgive sin on earth as he did to more than one person.
they were saved, and the holyspirit dwelt in them. before they were filled with the holyghost in acts 2. there is a diffrence.
one a very down to earth way of speaking, it is a much much higher encounter with god, wherein you are FILLED with the holyspirit, to become full of, and you are endued with power from on high, not the same as simply being saved.
having the holyspirit, and being full of him, are very diffrent. as simply as, a glass having some water, and a glass being full of water, are 2 diffrent things. yet they both hold the same water.
3. the diffrence between the power of the gifts, and simply the power of the believer.
i was trying to show that, no, you dont have to operate in the gifts of the spirit in 1 cor 12. in order to walk in the power of god, as is clearly seen to any bible student.
only those who are "filled with the holyghost" can operate in the gifts, to my knowlegde. like the gift of faith, and healing.
yet, all christians who believe in jesus can have faith, and must have it. and can be healed through asking the father in faith, through the blood of jesus.
the questioned was asked
"Must a person be able to speak in tongue before he/she can
'move in the spirit' (cast out demons, prophesy, etc)"
i was trying to prove, NO, you do not.
you must speak in tongues, to be filled, and operate in the gifts.
but there is much power, and manifestion of god, outside of those 2 things, for those who simply believe.
4. you said,
"Someone (opinions are always questionable) confidently told me that you can't do healing /deliverance if you are not baptised in the Holy Spirit."
i will never believe that.
there is a gift of healing, but that doesnt mean you cant heal someone unless your filled with the spirit, or you would have to say the same for all the gifts and you simply cannot.
there is a gift of faith, yet, all believers have faith.
there is a gift of wisdom, yet there are millions of wise men on the earth, who arent filled, or even know jesus.
there is a gift of healing, yet, many have received healing through simply asking the father in jesus name, and believing, as is clearly the right of every christian, young or old, immature or mature, unfilled or filled.
ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE.
IF YOU CAN BELIEVE "NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU".
jesus would have been wrong, if you have to be filled with holyghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues in order to do "all things".
the most young immature christian, who has faith in jesus, can work the works of god. just believe.
5. should every person speak in tongues?
you said
"If it is possible, everyone should? People are missing out if they don't?"
i very quickly say, YES!
just as greater faith is something everyone should strive for, as greater knowledge of the word is something everyone should strive for, speaking in tongues is something everyone should strive for.
and sometimes it can be quite difficult to attain becuase many times before a person is filled and speaks in tongues they must clean themselves of things, like smoking or whatever, it can be hard to recieve it. but it is to be sought.
i agree speaking in tongues is very powerful, one reason is simply the prayer is so much more effective. the holyspirit prays for things you dont know to pray for, in ways you dont know how. and so, accomplishes things you simply couldnt. it can and will change your life if used right.
i agree, it all comes down to the heart.
many times in the bible we read of people doing very weird things, praying weird prayers, asking weird things, and nevertheless receiving from god, becuase their hearts were right.
you said
"My relationship with God became intimate when two things happened - baptism of the Holy Spirit and Mom gave me a study Bible! : )"
i agree, it did for me aswell.
but i think the overall purpose of being filled with the holyspirit is to empower us to fullfill a need.
he came TO MAKE US EFFECTIVE WITNESSES, as is stated in the word.
yet, we do become more intamite with god when we receive the filling of the spirit becuase WE NEED THAT to be an effective witness, part of having faith is knowing god personally. and faith is surely needed. so, yes intamicy is needed as well.
i think its to fullfill a need, but you need intamicy with god to do that. so, yes, intamicy does come, but it isnt the overall purpose of the filling and speaking in tongues. am i clear?
yeah, i too think people need to very careful.
many people make big claims, and stuff, and end up being wrong, or it simply does not come true.
like benny hinn, i love the man to death, but some of his predictions, did not come true. homosexaulity was not gone from america by the year 2000, as i recall him saying it would be. but i do think much of his ministry is a very genuine work of god, but no one i know is perfect, i dont expect him to be either.
yeah people mess up, we need to be very very careful.
uhhh, moses? well..... he did do somethings wrong, yeah he messed up.
when we read about the incident at the red sea, moses says
"STAND AND SEE THE SALVATION OF THE LORD!"
and we read god say
WHY DO YOU CRY UNTO ME? STICK OUT YOUR ROD!
moses messed up, he told the people something that wasnt FROM GOD. he told the people to just wait and watch god move, god told him to move instead.
so, yeah, even the great, highly esteemed moses messed up. more than once, yet, i greatly look up to that man.
i wish i made as few mistakes as moses.
well, yeah, we lay ourselves down and throw off pride when we get saved, yet anyone can fall to pride later in life after salvation, and many do. which is undeniable.
so, yes saved people can fall to pride, no matter how much your saved.
im saying many deny that you must speak in tongues to be filled, becuase, that would mean that they arent really filled. and they are proud, so they refuse to believe that.
yet i agree, its not the only excuse people use, the reason you gave about the beliefe that it isnt for today is used aswell.
i hope i asnwered your questions.
i fully understand if you dont believe everything i say. i dont expect you to anyway.
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