Charasmatics Stance on Evolution

[Heinrich]

Hi

This took me a very long time to realize after hearing it clearly for some time
At first I thought it doesn't really matter.. Who cares if it was evolution or creation..
Or that WAS my attitude.
Then one day I realized.. If The everything started with big bang evolution and billion of years.. Well then death and suffering where there right from the start... which would mean that it didn't make much difference that sin came into the world by man's rebellion.. In effect that would lead to a conclusion that there is no need to save man since sin didn't change anything... And pretty soon the Cross doesn't mean that much anymore.

mmm I don't really expect anybody to understand what I meant. It's actually a bit more complicated anyways and I don't have all the technical bits sorted out.

o yeah.. Take a look at www.answersingenesis.com!

 

[CeeBee]

Okay.

 

[He put me back together]

How does Darwin's theory contradict Genesis?

 

[P_G]

Let me chime in here on this.

I blelieve in 6 actual days of creation. And that in those 6 days
The Lord God sovereign El'ohim created by his word all things that would be
created.

Species do not evolve they de-evolve. There is the REMOVAL of what God made whole.
ie traits that would not survive in a particular area died off. And what was left looked like a new species but in fact was the same species with less genetic material than the original. To evolve would require whole new genetic material to be created on it's own.

Sorry but we don't see this happening and never have.


Blessings

PG

 

[CeeBee]

Yes, I agree Nehemiah. He put me back together, I think Darwin thought that apes evolved into humans over millions of years. God said in Genesis that he amde Earth in six days.

 

[Andrew]

Just to add,

the Bible in Genesis says OVER AND OVER AGAIN "after their kind". so how can one kind, say, a fish, become another kind, say, a horse?

Ge 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Ge 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Andrew]

There is also the biblical principle of sowing and reaping, seed time and harvest. When you sow a mango seed, during the harvest, you get what that seed is supposed to produce, a mango, you dont get an apple.

God in his creation has put the 'power' in animals to reproduce becos that 'power' is in the seed. He didnt have to keep creating dogs and cats down thru the ages, becos He made them such that they cld reproduce themselves.

And the Bible principle is that a seed produces after its own kind. eg if we sow love we reap love. If we sow money into into the kingdom of God, we reap money. If we sow friendship we get friendship. If we sow time for God, we reap time for ourselves. etc.

 

[He put me back together]

How does Genesis conclude that God literally created all things in 6 twenty-four hour periods, any more than John's vision concludes that when we are with Christ, we will all be walking on a shiny yellow metal embued with jewels? Were we like we are now when we were created, or did we fall into this state? Were we always toiling creatures of flesh?

 

[enoch son]

First one must ask was God always 3 being in 1 (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). Or just the Godhead. Did God divide @ creation (big bang). For before the being of time, as we know it, the Son die for us. I believe the Big bang happean when satan enter the throne room. And the evolution of the creation has happean sense. (1 john 2-27) This is just a idea nothing more.

 

[He put me back together]

Is that called mirco-evolution? I thot evolution whether macro or micro was supposed to be an unpward thing, ie species getting better, not worse -- loss of gene information from the original gene pool.

The chihuahua, for eg, will get a heart attack if you run him to hard *LOL something like that. Ask any cross breeder and they'll tell you some breeds just can't survive long of have certain major weaknesses. It's more like mutation -- which is a bad thing, not a good thing, certainly not evolution.

Natural selection really has nothing to do with "getting better..." it's just a statement of common sense. Those who breed will continue; those who do not breed will not. Being small and cute (well, only one of which applies to barking rats, but that's beside the point ) for some reason can bring about a great deal of food and care--and breeding--for some kinds of animals. Being cute doesn't make a critter strong, fast, or smart--but it does give cause for attachment to man, who by his invention is all of these things moreso than any other earthly creature. Being cute is an adaption, and can be more powerful for the proliferation of a critter than claws and teeth. (Actually, claws and teeth have been the cause for the near EXTINCTION of some species.)

 

[He put me back together]

Just to add,

the Bible in Genesis says OVER AND OVER AGAIN "after their kind". so how can one kind, say, a fish, become another kind, say, a horse?

Ge 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Ge 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Reproducing after one's kind is the core concept of natural selection.

 

[Godz Marine]

I believe in evolution! Yes sir, I am a blood bought, Spirit filled, tongue talking WOF evolutionist!

I beleive in the changing from one form to another and fully believe the Bible teaches so!!!

And don't set there and stare at your monitor as though the devil himself has just posted. Haven't you ever read about a "changing of the heart" and "renewing of the mind"!!!!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[LynneClomina]

How does Genesis conclude that God literally created all things in 6 twenty-four hour periods, any more than John's vision concludes that when we are with Christ, we will all be walking on a shiny yellow metal embued with jewels? Were we like we are now when we were created, or did we fall into this state? Were we always toiling creatures of flesh?

well, Genesis is a historical account, whereas revelation is apocalyptic/prophectic.... there is room in that form of literature for imagery and symbolism......

 

[Perceivence]

No, I don't believe in Evolution.

 

[He put me back together]

well, Genesis is a historical account, whereas revelation is apocalyptic/prophectic.... there is room in that form of literature for imagery and symbolism......

You don't think Revelation has any historical bases? Have you read the messages to the churches? You think the tree of life is made of WOOD? Genesis is an explanation in lesser terms of things we cannot understand. It's simply insane to INSIST without any leeway for argument that the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is literally made of water and pulp--the entire Bible begs to differ. What? Is the garden mowed to the ground to make way for golden pavement? As far as evolution is concerned, whether it is actually credible or not, our ATTITUDE is costly to the kingdom of God. We are LOSING SOULS because we have this overwhelming EARTHLY desire to automatically dismiss anyone who disrupts our cute fairy-tale delusion of some 20 foot tall, gray bearded, GREEK or Norseman God, sitting on a river bank, carving a doll out of mud. People are turning to atheism, quite frankly because it makes more sense than ruby fawcets in a golden house, watching your children play fetch with a six winged cherub.

 

[LynneClomina]

You don't think Revelation has any historical bases? Have you read the messages to the churches? You think the tree of life is made of WOOD? Genesis is an explanation in lesser terms of things we cannot understand. It's simply insane to INSIST without any leeway for argument that the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is literally made of water and pulp--the entire Bible begs to differ. What? Is the garden mowed to the ground to make way for golden pavement? As far as evolution is concerned, whether it is actually credible or not, our ATTITUDE is costly to the kingdom of God. We are LOSING SOULS because we have this overwhelming EARTHLY desire to automatically dismiss anyone who disrupts our cute fairy-tale delusion of some 20 foot tall, gray bearded, GREEK or Norseman God, sitting on a river bank, carving a doll out of mud. People are turning to atheism, quite frankly because it makes more sense than ruby fawcets in a golden house, watching your children play fetch with a six winged cherub.

i simply stated that the two books express the truth in a different literary style. what is your problem with me that you are attacking everything i say????

 

[He put me back together]

i simply stated that the two books express the truth in a different literary style. what is your problem with me that you are attacking everything i say????

Please don't think that anything is personal. This is an argumentative forum; what we say is about points, not about people. We're all brothers and sisters here. Now, about the points: Not all of what I was attacking in that particular post was what you have said. Genesis and Revelation both have historical and symbolic components (well, Revelation wasn't historical for the time; rather, current events, but hey). That's what I had to say about your stuff. The rest was a continuation of criticism for the hasty, careless, and worldly dismissal of certain scientific theories which do not conflict with God, but do conflict with some of our fantastic pictures of him.

 

[He put me back together]

Well, actually, upon further review, I do notice that I used the words "Do you" instead of "Do we," upon comments that should have been addressed to the group. In that light I painted a bad picture of my intents--I appologize.

 

[Perceivence]

You think the tree of life is made of WOOD? Genesis is an explanation in lesser terms of things we cannot understand. It's simply insane to INSIST without any leeway for argument that the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is literally made of water and pulp--the entire Bible begs to differ.

So you think it's figurative? That the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" is a term used for something that actually happened in a more specific and scientific theory of our origin? Something else?

I'm assuming that your claim isn't limited to the tree being wooden, but that it's suggestive of something more.

What? Is the garden mowed to the ground to make way for golden pavement?

Huh?

As far as evolution is concerned, whether it is actually credible or not, our ATTITUDE is costly to the kingdom of God. We are LOSING SOULS because we have this overwhelming EARTHLY desire to automatically dismiss anyone who disrupts our cute fairy-tale delusion of some 20 foot tall, gray bearded, GREEK or Norseman God, sitting on a river bank, carving a doll out of mud. People are turning to atheism, quite frankly because it makes more sense than ruby fawcets in a golden house, watching your children play fetch with a six winged cherub.

I don't agree with you. I believe the defence of Genesis' account and the opposition to some of these scientific theories is a thrust to maintain the Bible's credibility. How will you defend against someone denying the evidence of Jesus' resurrection in the scriptures if you take other accounts of similar style (ie, not visions) metaphorically?

Saying that those things are figurative is not something you want to give to atheists. That attitude is a threat to our evangelical attempts.

 

[crystalpc]

Again scripture has to be the guide, Jesus believed in creation, who am I to question it.
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;