character growth

[LynneClomina]

hi, ya'll.

i've had a problem for as long as i've been a christian of being critical and lacking compassion... i KNOW i've grown in that area soooo much, my friends and "mentors" at church have told me that i have expecially in the last year, and i was feeling really good about it. and then today i was told, again, that i am judgemental and lacking in compassion.... it was feedback that i ASKED for and while i tried to prepare myself for whatever came back to me, and submit it to the Lord, it still hit me like a ton of bricks.

i have been really trying to be aware of developing my character, becuse all i want to do in life is to serve the Lord with all my heart, but i keep hearing the SAME thing about me OVER and OVER and OVER and i'm really discouraged. Lynne, you need GRACE. compared to the "world", i think i give out alot more grace than i often recieve, but it's not enough in the kingdom of God. i guess i need to be almost perfect at it? or so it seems.

the last time i asked for advice from a visiting minister about how to develop one's character, in particular GRACE, i was so frusterated, i started crying. now, one thing to know about me is that i almost NEVER cry. when i was a kid i cried alot, sensitive kid i guess, but i was always told to stop, so i stopped, and since then i have rarely been ABLE to cry. anyhoo, that day i asked the visitinig minister that, i actually started to cry. the kind of cry where you have tears streaming down, and your voice starts shaking, but control control that i must have, i thought i kept it under control fairly well, even though i was at the same time so proud that i was crying for once!!!! well, this minister immediatly got firm, and said, well, one thing is that you have to get your emotions under control, you cant minister effectively if you start crying at the drop of a hat and get all out of control. i couldn't believe it! one of the few times since i was a kid that any tears came out of me, and i was told to stop crying AGAIN. i tried to explain that i never cry, and my paster who hapened to walk by heard that and kinda nodded to the guy and said is that ever true! and then moved on to give privacy i guess. but the guy didnt listen, and i basically got lectured about controlling emotions, me, the ultra controlled one. so, even though i KNEW it was a good thing that i was crying, and i knew he was "missing" it by saying to stop crying , it was still kind of like a slap back into old patterns of DON"T CRY. IT DOESNT DO ANY GOOD TO CRY. YOU MAKE A LOT OF NOISE AND IT DOESNT GET YOU ANYWHERE. the same message again: there is something WRONG with you.

anyhoo, the last few months i've been really encouraged by what others have been percieving as miracle changes in me, and feeling like i'm on the right track, and then today i hear that i'm too judgemental and not compassionate. (and so i'm actually crying, a bit, and i hear that visting pastors voice telling me to get under control......) but,
i am OPEN to hearing that, even if it hurts, becuase i know that i dont see where my own shortcomings are, and i need others input for that. and i'm fighting the feelings of something being "wrong" with me again, because i KNOW there is NOT, i'm just growing.

but the whole reason i posted this in "christian advice" and not the struggles forum is because i need input on GROWING my CHARACTER, learning to tread the fine line between non-judgementalism and unbiblical tolerance of sin (think Jesus and the woman at the well - how many ppl can pull that off well???), and how to be compassionate AND staying true to Truth????? is there a measuring stick on growth? how can i stay objective in not letting the enemy have a field day with me, staying teachable, and be able to KEEp asking for input knowing i might get with the same thing again? i want to doggedly pursue Christlikeness and not get waylaid with things like "personality profiles" and dissection of elements of "personal development" or what have you, rather than just seeking Jesus and becoming more like Him in all things.

HOW can i grow? and how can i not get discouraged and give up the fight to grow????

ps, i've been a christian for 6 years, and guess what? that visiting minister is back THIS COMING WEEKEND for, guess what? leadership training....

 

[Rafael]

Growing in mercy and humility aren't always very easy things to be done. The pruning shears cut away the old so that the new growth will bear fruit. I've heard the song about the anvil of God's will and the Refiner's fire changing us to the point that at times we don't know who we are, so tears that the Lord keeps in a bottle should be no surprise. This teacher of leadership may be a bit wrong with you, but may have much to teach you despite his wrong assessment of your tears. Buck up and face the challenge without bitterness and you will grow. I think these little troubles are placed there for us to face by the Lord to embrace as Him giving us opportunity to grow. Forgive the pastor for not knowing about your issue with tears.

James 2:2 Dear brothers and sisters, whenever trouble comes your way, let it be an opportunity for joy.
3 For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow.
4 So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be strong in character and ready for anything.

12 God blesses the people who patiently endure testing. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

1Pe 1:6 So be truly glad! There is wonderful joy ahead, even though it is necessary for you to endure many trials for a while.
7 These trials are only to test your faith, to show that it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—and your faith is far more precious to God than mere gold. So if your faith remains strong after being tried by fiery trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
8 You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him, you trust him; and even now you are happy with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

Psalms 56:8 You keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in your bottle. You have recorded each one in your book.

 

[Alternate Carpark]

Hello Lynne, for starters I wouldn't listen to anything that visiting minister had to say to you personally. This is my personal opinion and not some biblical reason.
He may be called of God to minister, but counselling is not his department.

Eccles. 3:1-8 (KJV)
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
[2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
[3] A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
[4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
[5] A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
[6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
[7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
[8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

God made us with emotions, and it seems that you have bottled them up for so many years. I wouldn't be surprised to see that you will show lots of intense emotions as you get closer to God. There is a big difference between "being emotional" and expressing emotion and being overcome with emotion.

I love crying and I love expressing emotions. But I figure the emotions that you are talking about are those overwhelming ones that you find hard to control.
Don't control them. Get before God in your private sanctuary and let it all out. God has been waiting all this time for you to get to this point.

It is a form of confession isn't it. If you keep it inside, you are not being honest with God or yourself, concerning how you feel.
You are crying because you have intense built up pain from so many years of, well you know what you have gone through.
Have a look through the old testament and see how many times the people of God weeped and cried out to God when things weren't well.

I remember one incident over 20 years ago ( oh I am so old LOL), anyway I was watching Green Card, a fairly lame romantic/comedy, and this scene came up where they had to part and the guy had to go back to his country, but the love they had for each other made it so painful.

Anyway, I just started wailing, the first time in my life. I was shocked and confused ! Where was all this coming from, ( I had been saved a couple of years at this time)
and then I kept asking God over and over " Do you love me ? Why don't you love me ? "

I felt so unloved by everyone all my life and I noticed that my walk with God was not going exceptionally well and others seem to be able to connect to God and hear Him but not me.

I thought because I didn't hear from Him or "feel" Him that He mustn't love me at all.
Man did I cry that night. I wailed for about 20 minutes and then it stopped.
But because I asked God what He thought of me, because I opened up to Him, He then opened up to me. Not straight away or not as I expected Him to. But, Oh Joy, did He show up big time about 3-4 years later.

I too am like you Lynne, all I want to do is be the best for Him, I want to immerse myself in Him, and a couple of years after that strange night I made a declaration to Him.
I said that I don't care how long it takes or how painful it is or how strange it seems, I want Him to fix me up and make me whole, to make me into a pure and mighty vessel for Him to live through.

He only said one thing back to me that night, "Be yourself ! Don't put on the happy perfect christian suit that you have been doing for the last 10 years. I don't have a problem with your weaknesses or your failings, I don't care if people think you are a hopeless case, because if you trust me and are open and honest with me, I WILL restore you from the inside out. I will start deep wthin your heart and over time, you're outward appearance and behaviour will change to reflect the precious work I am doing on the inside. Share your heart with me and I will share mine with yours."

That was over 10 years ago now, and I can truely say that God is graciously and patiently and gently and lovingly transforming what was once a total waste of space into that pure and holy vessel for the Lords service that I do so desire to be.

Lynne, you will find that God wants to interact with you on a deeply personal level. he wants to do this with each and everyone of His children because he loves us so passionalty.
And the things that you desire can only come about when you trust Him to lead you specifically in whatever he has for you, because what He wants to do with you and how He is going to do it will be as unique as you are.

How do you grow ? It's so simple. Ask God that you want everything He has for you, tell Him the desires of your heart concerning your life within Him and tell Him you allow Him to do what is neccesary to accomplish this.

God uses many differnet means and avenues to restore our damaged souls, so it's difficult so pinpoint exactly how He will do it for each individual.
It's better for each person to hear and be led by God personally.
For example, with me, God has spoken to me through books, His word, through people, and most preciously, directly from him by His Holy Spirit.

Then, as a friendly warning, be prepared for God to turn your world unside down, inside out and every other way. But in everything that you experience with God, KNOW that He is doing it and allowing it for your benefit. And His motive ? Pure unconditional love for you...oh yeah !!

 

[rogsr]

Lynne,
Go find a soup kitchen, or a homeless shelter, or a place with handicapped children and work there whenever you can. Seeing their suffering will crush your heart with love and compassion. This is the way. Take action, I know that you can do it

 

[HumbleBee]

Lynne,

You asking the wrong people for feedback...they sound waaaaaaaaay more judgmental and critical than you, especially that others say you have indeed grown in grace! Bad company corrupts good character. You will take on the character of those you spend a lot of time with...all the better to fellowship with wise, joyful, and compassionate people! God gives endurance and encouragement! So when you hearing harsh criticisms and being lectured at...tiz not Him who speaking to you. Best way to grow in grace is by fixing your eyes on Jesus, One full of grace and truth and compassion! Read the red, pray for the power!

 

[LynneClomina]

Growing in mercy and humility aren't always very easy things to be done.

is it ever?

The pruning shears cut away the old so that the new growth will bear fruit. I've heard the song about the anvil of God's will and the Refiner's fire changing us to the point that at times we don't know who we are,

i dont know if i've EVER really known who i am, so that scares me to feel even more "lost" than that. Jesus is SO my anchor cuz He HAS to be.

so tears that the Lord keeps in a bottle should be no surprise. This teacher of leadership may be a bit wrong with you, but may have much to teach you despite his wrong assessment of your tears.

yah, i know. i'm trying to have my heart in the right place so that i can recieve what he has to share from God.

Buck up and face the challenge without bitterness and you will grow.

isnt it funny how you always think, i've gotten over it, then little traces of bitterness come up?

I think these little troubles are placed there for us to face by the Lord to embrace as Him giving us opportunity to grow.

definately. every time i face something i'm like, what's up, GOd? what are you doing in me now?

Forgive the pastor for not knowing about your issue with tears.

what's hard is i explained to him and he didnt really listen. that's more what hurt than him saying don't cry... later he did admit that he's kinda old fashioned and when women cry he get's lost as to what to do or say. i beleive i've forgiven him because i dont hold him responsible for my hurt, it's something in ME that got hurt, try as i did to NOT recieve a hurt....

James 2:2 Dear brothers and sisters, whenever trouble comes your way, let it be an opportunity for joy.
3 For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow.
4 So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be strong in character and ready for anything.

i have a friend who always gets mad at me cuz i'm always coming up agaisnt every trial and quote that verse. one of my favorites. helped me through much struggle.

12 God blesses the people who patiently endure testing. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

He's given us a hope and a future.....

1Pe 1:6 So be truly glad! There is wonderful joy ahead, even though it is necessary for you to endure many trials for a while.
7 These trials are only to test your faith, to show that it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—and your faith is far more precious to God than mere gold. So if your faith remains strong after being tried by fiery trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
8 You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him, you trust him; and even now you are happy with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

oh Lord, may it be so...

Psalms 56:8 You keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in your bottle. You have recorded each one in your book.

thanks especially for this verse. it has ministered to me.

 

[LynneClomina]

Hello Lynne, for starters I wouldn't listen to anything that visiting minister had to say to you personally. This is my personal opinion and not some biblical reason.
He may be called of God to minister, but counselling is not his department.

i would tend to agree with that.

Eccles. 3:1-8 (KJV)
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
[2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
[3] A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
[4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
[5] A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
[6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
[7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
[8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

God made us with emotions, and it seems that you have bottled them up for so many years. I wouldn't be surprised to see that you will show lots of intense emotions as you get closer to God. There is a big difference between "being emotional" and expressing emotion and being overcome with emotion.

is that "being emotional"=the bad kind? feeling sorry for yourself, angry, tempermental....? is "expressing emotion and being overcome with emotion" a good thing? how do they differ???

I love crying and I love expressing emotions. But I figure the emotions that you are talking about are those overwhelming ones that you find hard to control.

when they actually leak out, yeah...

Don't control them. Get before God in your private sanctuary and let it all out. God has been waiting all this time for you to get to this point.

that's scarey, becuase i've had lots of baaad times, y'know? when the deep things come out....

It is a form of confession isn't it. If you keep it inside, you are not being honest with God or yourself, concerning how you feel.
You are crying because you have intense built up pain from so many years of, well you know what you have gone through.
Have a look through the old testament and see how many times the people of God weeped and cried out to God when things weren't well.

I remember one incident over 20 years ago ( oh I am so old LOL), anyway I was watching Green Card, a fairly lame romantic/comedy, and this scene came up where they had to part and the guy had to go back to his country, but the love they had for each other made it so painful.

i remember seeing that movie, i felt crushed after, too.

Anyway, I just started wailing, the first time in my life. I was shocked and confused ! Where was all this coming from, ( I had been saved a couple of years at this time)
and then I kept asking God over and over " Do you love me ? Why don't you love me ? "

I felt so unloved by everyone all my life and I noticed that my walk with God was not going exceptionally well and others seem to be able to connect to God and hear Him but not me.

I thought because I didn't hear from Him or "feel" Him that He mustn't love me at all.
Man did I cry that night. I wailed for about 20 minutes and then it stopped.
But because I asked God what He thought of me, because I opened up to Him, He then opened up to me. Not straight away or not as I expected Him to. But, Oh Joy, did He show up big time about 3-4 years later.

yah, He's come through for me soo much already, i know there is more to come.

I too am like you Lynne, all I want to do is be the best for Him, I want to immerse myself in Him, and a couple of years after that strange night I made a declaration to Him.
I said that I don't care how long it takes or how painful it is or how strange it seems, I want Him to fix me up and make me whole, to make me into a pure and mighty vessel for Him to live through.

yah. me too.

He only said one thing back to me that night, "Be yourself ! Don't put on the happy perfect christian suit that you have been doing for the last 10 years. I don't have a problem with your weaknesses or your failings, I don't care if people think you are a hopeless case, because if you trust me and are open and honest with me, I WILL restore you from the inside out. I will start deep wthin your heart and over time, you're outward appearance and behaviour will change to reflect the precious work I am doing on the inside. Share your heart with me and I will share mine with yours."

That was over 10 years ago now, and I can truely say that God is graciously and patiently and gently and lovingly transforming what was once a total waste of space into that pure and holy vessel for the Lords service that I do so desire to be.

Lynne, you will find that God wants to interact with you on a deeply personal level. he wants to do this with each and everyone of His children because he loves us so passionalty.
And the things that you desire can only come about when you trust Him to lead you specifically in whatever he has for you, because what He wants to do with you and how He is going to do it will be as unique as you are.

thank you for that....

How do you grow ? It's so simple. Ask God that you want everything He has for you, tell Him the desires of your heart concerning your life within Him and tell Him you allow Him to do what is neccesary to accomplish this.

God uses many differnet means and avenues to restore our damaged souls, so it's difficult so pinpoint exactly how He will do it for each individual.
It's better for each person to hear and be led by God personally.
For example, with me, God has spoken to me through books, His word, through people, and most preciously, directly from him by His Holy Spirit.

Then, as a friendly warning, be prepared for God to turn your world unside down, inside out and every other way.

.... yah, i know..... !!!!

But in everything that you experience with God, KNOW that He is doing it and allowing it for your benefit. And His motive ? Pure unconditional love for you...oh yeah !!

yes, yes, and yes. very true. thank you.

 

[LynneClomina]

Lynne,
Go find a soup kitchen, or a homeless shelter, or a place with handicapped children and work there whenever you can. Seeing their suffering will crush your heart with love and compassion. This is the way. Take action, I know that you can do it

i've been in that kind of environment, actually. i've spent about 4 years, 4-5 days a week involved in a mental health rehabilitation program "clubhouse" -- i've made friends with ppl who have their wits around them enough to remember to bathe once in a blue moon, who can hardly put together a half sentence, who are so poor they have like $30 a month for food, lucky if they have a roof over their head, have a grade 2 education, and i've cooked and served food for them, taught them computers, did a newsletter for them, and dont fear to say hi to them in the mall when everyone else walks away from them becuase they are talking to themselves and stink. and i have been so sick i have been like that myself. at church i am "discipling" a girl in our church who is mentally ill and has the mentality of a 9 year old but thinks she is an adult and can have sex with whoever she wants and will talk about her troubles in front of anyone who will listen including kids - becasue i am the only one who has the patience and ability to handle her. and my best friend is chronically schizophrenic. so please dont think i've been insulated my whole life from ppl with suffering, or something.

 

[LynneClomina]

Lynne,

You asking the wrong people for feedback...they sound waaaaaaaaay more judgmental and critical than you, especially that others say you have indeed grown in grace! Bad company corrupts good character. You will take on the character of those you spend a lot of time with...all the better to fellowship with wise, joyful, and compassionate people! God gives endurance and encouragement! So when you hearing harsh criticisms and being lectured at...tiz not Him who speaking to you. Best way to grow in grace is by fixing your eyes on Jesus, One full of grace and truth and compassion! Read the red, pray for the power!

thank you, that's a real uplifting post, hun. your now my official cheerleader! thanks.

 

[rogsr]

Maybe you are not concentrating on them. Their suffering, rather than your good works; I'm not trying to pry into your personal struggles, because I don't think you care what I have to say. However, I have been those people and what I have to say is real. I don't quote the bible very much, not because I don't know it but because I live it. Think of all the suffering of the world. Put yourself into their lives. Not for a moment, but for hours. Concentrate on them and expierience in your heart for an hour what they expierience every second of every day and your heart will be broken in humility. Good luck

 

[Alternate Carpark]

that's scarey, becuase i've had lots of baaad times, y'know? when the deep things come out....

It is scary to go into unchartered and unfamiliar territory, especially into the deepest parts of our hearts where the pain of the past is kept. Pian that keeps wounds festering inside for many years.

Yet in God's wonderful restoration work, that is exactly where we need to go.
It starts by use giving God permission to restore us, He never imposes on us that which we do not desire, and then it's a continuous walk with Him from glory to glory.

I have found, through my experiences with Him regarding restoration of my once shattered soul, that He knows exactly where, when and how to restore me.

He knows how to unravel the mess that is inside of us, and He knows what needs to be dealt with first, AND, He does it in such a gentle way because He knows who we really are and how much we can handle.

At best we can only see the surface problems we have, the symptoms.
But God knows the absolute source of our pain and dysfunctions and that is where He directs His skilled hands and performs heart surgery on us.

And it takes time to recover from surgery, and we are somewhat incapacitated during intense restoration work as well.
Like all restoration work, things will become messier and there will be times where we think it's getting worse, but through all of it God asks but one thing.

TRUST. We must be willing to trust Him when He says He loves us and desires to restore us to what He originally designed us to be before we were born.
And you only build trust through experiences. Just like faith without works is dead.

These "bad" things that you have experienced Lynne, as we all have, are dealt with by God in His restoration work. When we trust God more, we allow Him to come into these painful areas of our lives and he heals us in His own way.

It's like in Revelation where it say " He stands at the door and knocks, and it is us who opens the door and allows Him to enter "

It's like we have multiple rooms within our hearts. Each room contains events, feelings, thoughts, painful and joyful. God, in His perfect way, will knock on each door in His time and ask you to let Him in to shed His glory into that part of your heart.
And I'm not talking about healing of memories either, I'm talking about healing a damaged soul that is so wounded that we are barely alive.

That night that I declared to God that I allow Him to fix me up no matter what, that was 13 years ago and it was only last september that He shed light on something that had bound me up for all of my life. Something that had made my life a living hell for so long.
The culprit that I was searching for so many years, yet could not identify.

Was I angry with God for taking so long, or that He didn't fix this problem in the first place instead of all those other problems I had that He gloriously delivered me from these last 10 years....NO !

His will and plan for my life is perfect and as I walk with Him deeper and deeper, my trust in His ways grows to such a point that He could ask me for anything and i would do it, no questions asked. I trust Him with my whole life

Restoration work is painstakingly slow sometimes and frustrating because we want to be healed NOW ! I know all about that. I was so frustrated at God for not fixing me when I wanted to be fixed.
But after 10 amazing years with Him, as my first 10 years were me wearing my "Christian suit" , I look back and see what marvelous skill He has and How His way of doing it just so perfect that I never dispute His leading any more.

through the whole experience (walk) I trust Him more, love Him more, obey Him more and desire to be with Him more.
EVERYTHING in my life, good and bad, is there to get me closer to Him.
I thank Him for everything i have gone through and everything i will go through.

 

[LynneClomina]

Maybe you are not concentrating on them. Their suffering, rather than your good works; I'm not trying to pry into your personal struggles, because I don't think you care what I have to say. However, I have been those people and what I have to say is real. I don't quote the bible very much, not because I don't know it but because I live it. Think of all the suffering of the world. Put yourself into their lives. Not for a moment, but for hours. Concentrate on them and expierience in your heart for an hour what they expierience every second of every day and your heart will be broken in humility. Good luck

to be honest rogsr, it's not just what you have to say that puts me off, its how you say it.

it's not my good works. i dont give a dang about my good works. you make it sound like empty deeds, and that bugs me, becuase i dont do it to make myself look good, i do it becuase i KNOW what it's like to be mentally ill. you seem to take it for granted that becuase i am "critical and lacking in compassion" it must mean i have no experience with suffering and what it is like to live like that.

briefly, i'll give you a run down:

-as a teenager, i could not talk to strangers, or family, only one "friend" and my mom.

-i was in the mental health rehab clubhouse not as a job or as a volunteer, but as a client. for 4 years steady, 3-4, and at times 5 days a week, for 6 hours each day. that's longer than some ppl can hold down a job. i know what it's like to be one of "those" people.

-i have been so mentally SICK that "I" have not been able to put together a coherant sentence.

-i have been so sick that i would not bathe for 2 weeks until i stunk and was practically forced into a bath.

-having a mom that cared for me unlike so many of "these" people, my mom bought me all my groceries and took care of me, becuase i didnt give a hoot about food. when you think that people outside your window are spies walking by to take information about you, you really don't care too much about getting groceries.

-note that while my mom loved me enough to care for my physical needs, emotionally she would say that the mental health system was demonic and i had to stop taking my medications, constant friction.

-the meals i helped cook there i ate too. and i had to help, as it was part of the program, even though i would get extremely agitated over handling raw chicken, or for that matter, touching the handle on the fridge door... i wasnt there for no good works.

-i learned computers there because when i was on the computer, people would leave me alone; later when i was not as sick, i helped people on the computer, when i was able to communicate enough without panicking.

-i did the newsletter becuase i was the only one able to do the computer work, and i found that writing was a great release, and later i tried to encourage others to write a story or letter for it each month, for that reason.

-i say hi to "those" people in the mall becuase i know what it's like to be greasy and messy and incoherant and talking to yourself and KNOWING that people are too scared to say boo to you. i KNOW what it's like to be lonely in a crowd, LITERALLY. i know what it's like to be in a room full of good people and nobody talking to you beyond a "hi" becuase they just do know what to say - even though you've been in their church for three years.

-i spent SIX WEEKS in a high-security Intensive Care Unit in the provincial mental hospital, not allowed to go the the bathroom w/o accompanyment, being treated with medications that by LAW you are not allowed to refuse (you'd just get in deeper doo doo), being around patients who would get YELLED at by staff because in their delusions they would take off their clothes because "God wanted them to", or leaving little doodies all over the ward as surprises for people and smearing it into the chairs in the dayroom. i know what it's like to not be allowed to lay down in your room because it's not "rest" time, and you'd get prodded into an upright position if you layed down on a chair when you are so doped up from the meds you cant refuse that you cant even say "please..." and can barely hold your head up. i know what it's like to be told that you are going to be in that hospital for another 6 months to a year becuase you arent fit for the world, and know what it's like for the grace of God to keep that from happenning. and look where i'm at now.

i dont need their shoes to break me, i've had my own. i dont need to "step into their lives" for even an hour, becuase i've experienced the same hell they go through for years already. i dont talk to people like "them" because i'm a good little christian, i do it because when i see them in the mall, i see myself walking in the mall, so lonely and rejected and in pain, and i'm not going to be yet another person who avoids them just becuase it's "difficult".

Concentrate on them and expierience in your heart for an hour what they expierience every second of every day and your heart will be broken in humility. Good luck.

do you really think that a person can "experience" disorientation and rejection and hopelessness and delusions and fear and pain by handing out bowls of soup? really? people who WORK with or CARE for "those" people dont even come to understand what it's like after years of first hand involvement.

so i'm sorry, i find your last post to be presumptous, condescending, and a little too selfrighteous for me to not get a little wee bit irked.

 

[LynneClomina]

It is scary to go into unchartered and unfamiliar territory, especially into the deepest parts of our hearts where the pain of the past is kept. Pian that keeps wounds festering inside for many years.

Yet in God's wonderful restoration work, that is exactly where we need to go.
It starts by use giving God permission to restore us, He never imposes on us that which we do not desire, and then it's a continuous walk with Him from glory to glory.

I have found, through my experiences with Him regarding restoration of my once shattered soul, that He knows exactly where, when and how to restore me.

yeah, its uncanny.

He knows how to unravel the mess that is inside of us, and He knows what needs to be dealt with first, AND, He does it in such a gentle way because He knows who we really are and how much we can handle.

i get frusterated when people get frusterated when a mess isnt sorted out yet. it's like the button i had when i was a kid - be patient, God isnt finished with me yet. it's like, cut me some slack, i CANT do (whatever) until God does a work cuz i dont get it anymore than you do.... y'know? and then like the last couple days, its like bricks all start piling on so fast and heavy, and you just dont know how to handle it, what to do, how to pray....

At best we can only see the surface problems we have, the symptoms.

very true.

But God knows the absolute source of our pain and dysfunctions and that is where He directs His skilled hands and performs heart surgery on us.

And it takes time to recover from surgery, and we are somewhat incapacitated during intense restoration work as well.

does that logically follow that when you are incapacitated there is recovery work, too? one could only hope...

Like all restoration work, things will become messier and there will be times where we think it's getting worse, but through all of it God asks but one thing.

TRUST. We must be willing to trust Him when He says He loves us and desires to restore us to what He originally designed us to be before we were born.

amen!

And you only build trust through experiences. Just like faith without works is dead.

sooo true. 5 years ago someone tells me i can do all things through Christ, i would be like, i know that's in the word of God, but..... now i'm like, ya, i know it for the most part. and that's only cuz He's come through time and time again....

These "bad" things that you have experienced Lynne, as we all have, are dealt with by God in His restoration work. When we trust God more, we allow Him to come into these painful areas of our lives and he heals us in His own way.

It's like in Revelation where it say " He stands at the door and knocks, and it is us who opens the door and allows Him to enter "

It's like we have multiple rooms within our hearts. Each room contains events, feelings, thoughts, painful and joyful. God, in His perfect way, will knock on each door in His time and ask you to let Him in to shed His glory into that part of your heart.

bingo, right spot on. multiple rooms.

And I'm not talking about healing of memories either, I'm talking about healing a damaged soul that is so wounded that we are barely alive.

yes.

That night that I declared to God that I allow Him to fix me up no matter what, that was 13 years ago and it was only last september that He shed light on something that had bound me up for all of my life. Something that had made my life a living hell for so long.
The culprit that I was searching for so many years, yet could not identify.

Was I angry with God for taking so long, or that He didn't fix this problem in the first place instead of all those other problems I had that He gloriously delivered me from these last 10 years....NO !

becuase He always brings revelation as to why it took so long, and we can see His greater wisdom....

His will and plan for my life is perfect and as I walk with Him deeper and deeper, my trust in His ways grows to such a point that He could ask me for anything and i would do it, no questions asked. I trust Him with my whole life.

do you find that the more you know Him, and the more you trust Him, the more you realize that you really DON'T trust Him? like "with every answer comes more questions"....

Restoration work is painstakingly slow sometimes and frustrating because we want to be healed NOW ! I know all about that. I was so frustrated at God for not fixing me when I wanted to be fixed.
But after 10 amazing years with Him, as my first 10 years were me wearing my "Christian suit" , I look back and see what marvelous skill He has and How His way of doing it just so perfect that I never dispute His leading any more.

awesome.

through the whole experience (walk) I trust Him more, love Him more, obey Him more and desire to be with Him more.
EVERYTHING in my life, good and bad, is there to get me closer to Him.

absolutely. so many ppl dont understand that. sometimes i'm like "praise God for taking me to the hospital" or whatever, and they're like whaat? that's not God.... i feel like i'm speaking a different language sometimes...

I thank Him for everything i have gone through and everything i will go through.

AMEN.

thanks AC.

 

[Under_His_Shadow]

but the whole reason i posted this in "christian advice" and not the struggles forum is because i need input on GROWING my CHARACTER, learning to tread the fine line between non-judgementalism and unbiblical tolerance of sin (think Jesus and the woman at the well - how many ppl can pull that off well???), and how to be compassionate AND staying true to Truth????? is there a measuring stick on growth? how can i stay objective in not letting the enemy have a field day with me, staying teachable, and be able to KEEp asking for input knowing i might get with the same thing again? i want to doggedly pursue Christlikeness and not get waylaid with things like "personality profiles" and dissection of elements of "personal development" or what have you, rather than just seeking Jesus and becoming more like Him in all things.

Hi Lynne,
I hear and discern a lot of God's grace at work in and through your heart's thoughts as you've expressed them in your posts! I define "grace" not as a fruit of the Spirit, i.e., "character" trait, but as God's provision for us, in and through Christ. Whatever our immediate need is, His grace has provided and makes it available for us to draw on, from our postion in Him.

As long as we are not tolerating sin in our own lives, the Spirit of Grace gives us the freedom and ability to hate the destructiveness and tormenting power of sin that we see binding others, while at the same time lovingly instructing and warning them of it's temporal and eternal consequences. If we are bound ourselves, fear will tend to make us critical and judgemental of others' sins, especially those sins that we ourselves are struggling with.

On the other hand, church leadership must not allow members who refuse to repent or war against their sins, to continue in fellowship without being dealt with, lest they eventually corrupt other believers.

We do have a fierce enemy though, who, once he gets a sense of a particularly weak (in our estimation) area in our soul, will attack us there time after time, because he also knows that that is exactly where God intends to display His grace (our undeserved provision in Christ) to bring Himself the most glory, because "when I am weak [in human strength] then am I [truly] strong (able, powerful in divine strength)" 2 Cor.12:10,AMP.

I think the primary measuring stick on growth, is the Bible, "so speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" (Jas.2:12). We also need to guard against comparing ourselves with other believers, which is not wise (2 Cor.10:12). Each of us has our own individual calling and purpose in God's overall plan.

The best thing is to ask God for wisdom re' who we share our innermost affections, emotions, thoughts, goals, visions, etc. with (Jas.1:5), so that we can share wisely and avoid giving what is holy to dogs or throwing our precious things before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn and tear us (emotionally and spiritually) to pieces (Mt.7:6).

Your Christian character will continue to develop steadily as you just do the basics: read/study Scripture; worship God from a pure heart; pray much and about everything, major or "minor"; take communion regularly; fellowship with strong believers; reach out and minister His grace to others using those gifts and abilities He has deposited in you, etc., and strive to "forget those things (both positive and negative) which lie in your past, and reach forward to what lies ahead in Christ" (Phil.3:13), realizing that although you do need to be diligent in your spiritual disciplines, you don't have to strive and strain, because "God, who began this good work in you, will continue His work until it is finally finished on that Day when Christ Jesus comes back again" (Phil.1:6,NLT).

 

[starry emzy]

hey u really need to learn about the fear of the Lord , also going through hard times and relying on God produces character, instead of asking us y don't u turn to God and ask him?

love always em

 

[rogsr]

never mind

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Experience has taught me compassion and understanding.
Lots of things seem black and white until you live through it and know the struggle involved.
premarital sex...two kids date for a few months with the best intentions and then mess up. I know what that's like. It's easy to rag on them for what they did. But having gone through the same thing myself I know how hard it can be. So I can take it easy on them and help them through by my own experiences.
Everyone out there is my brother or sister and I imagine me wrapping my arms around them and telling them I love them. Then i go from there.

Yes. I have my own issues as well. Believe me. I have a problem with being a smart alec punk. I think Im getting better and wham! Back to square one. It's discouraging. It's my failure.

 

[AngelDancer]

Hi,

Seems to me God IS answering your cry for help, you ask why you are so critical and lacking in compassion (your words, not mine), so you go to ask this visiting minister for advise and he shows you nothing but criticalness and a lack of compassion! You go on to say that when you cried as a child you were also critized and shown a lack of compassion.

Gee, call me stupid but I wonder if God is saying that too many people have been critical and lacking in compassion towards you in your life?????????????????

I think He is also saying that when you will be able to shed the tears you'll receive your healing in this area. Because your inability to cry and the criticalness and lack of compassion that has been shown to you in your life are intertwined in the story.

I suspect that you may have many incidences in your life when you have been over critized and shown a lack of compassion, even your attempts to improve seem to have been critized.

I am sorry that you were taught not to cry, it's every childs God given right to feel and grow through our pain. I'm sorry that you have been treated like this, I've read some of the things that you have written to other people in other areas in this site and I think that there is a natural encourager in you.

Angeldancer

 

[LynneClomina]

Hi Lynne,
I hear and discern a lot of God's grace at work in and through your heart's thoughts as you've expressed them in your posts! I define "grace" not as a fruit of the Spirit, i.e., "character" trait, but as God's provision for us, in and through Christ. Whatever our immediate need is, His grace has provided and makes it available for us to draw on, from our postion in Him.

i understand having grace toward others is to reflect how Jesus is towards us, patient, loving, caring, honest, forthright, gentle, and sometimes firm. i also see it as a "means" to be able to DO the will of God, so i include exhortation and vision-speaking into peoples lives. this is what i try for....

As long as we are not tolerating sin in our own lives, the Spirit of Grace gives us the freedom and ability to hate the destructiveness and tormenting power of sin that we see binding others, while at the same time lovingly instructing and warning them of it's temporal and eternal consequences. If we are bound ourselves, fear will tend to make us critical and judgemental of others' sins, especially those sins that we ourselves are struggling with.

yeah.

On the other hand, church leadership must not allow members who refuse to repent or war against their sins, to continue in fellowship without being dealt with, lest they eventually corrupt other believers.

absolutely. i totally agree.

We do have a fierce enemy though, who, once he gets a sense of a particularly weak (in our estimation) area in our soul, will attack us there time after time, because he also knows that that is exactly where God intends to display His grace (our undeserved provision in Christ) to bring Himself the most glory, because "when I am weak [in human strength] then am I [truly] strong (able, powerful in divine strength)" 2 Cor.12:10,AMP.

amen!

I think the primary measuring stick on growth, is the Bible, "so speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" (Jas.2:12). We also need to guard against comparing ourselves with other believers, which is not wise (2 Cor.10:12). Each of us has our own individual calling and purpose in God's overall plan.

The best thing is to ask God for wisdom re' who we share our innermost affections, emotions, thoughts, goals, visions, etc. with (Jas.1:5), so that we can share wisely and avoid giving what is holy to dogs or throwing our precious things before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn and tear us (emotionally and spiritually) to pieces (Mt.7:6).

yah, so long as we dont, out of fear, not share with ANYBODY, y'know? that's where i tend to mostly, or have in the past. maybe i'll swing polar opposite to that, too, while i'm trying to find balance, but hopefully not too bad...

Your Christian character will continue to develop steadily as you just do the basics: read/study Scripture; worship God from a pure heart; pray much and about everything, major or "minor"; take communion regularly; fellowship with strong believers; reach out and minister His grace to others using those gifts and abilities He has deposited in you, etc., and strive to "forget those things (both positive and negative) which lie in your past, and reach forward to what lies ahead in Christ" (Phil.3:13), realizing that although you do need to be diligent in your spiritual disciplines, you don't have to strive and strain, because "God, who began this good work in you, will continue His work until it is finally finished on that Day when Christ Jesus comes back again" (Phil.1:6,NLT).

i want to FORGET those things, because they are nothing, it's history. i heart a verse tonight that talked about a wise person withholding their anger but a foolish one venting it.... and that encouraged me that it's not necessary to go into your past and work through everything, work on NOW. be aware of WHY you are this way, but don't even think of it beyond that. y'know?

i've had a hard day again today. i've made jokes that ppl have just stared at me like it was totally over their heads, been ignored, and been misunderstood and treated like i am unimportant (by a christian). well, that's how it feels. i'm tired and feel like quitting. BUT, i've had such GOOD worship and prayer the last two days, and totally in tune with God... and then i'm bawling again about something.

thanks Jim. you speak words of true wisdom.

lynne

 

[LynneClomina]

hey u really need to learn about the fear of the Lord , also going through hard times and relying on God produces character, instead of asking us y don't u turn to God and ask him?

love always em

hi, hun. can you explain what you mean about the fear of the Lord? a term can mean so many different things to different people.

i know that hard times and relying on God produces character, i've learned to embrace struggles, hard as it is. but i have to wonder, why is it that you ask why i dont turn to God and ask Him? i ask God all the time. and i'm learning that being honest to God's PEOPLE and ASKING for support from them is part of God's plan. i've been told so many times to "dont ask me, ask God". and so i dont. i generally wont even ask for ANYTHING from God's people. and that's WRONG. every joint supplies in God's bodies. God gave us each other becuase we NEED each other to speak the word of God into each others lives. it has been very hurtful in my life, a yet another "be quiet", "dont talk about it", "don't cry", "dont ask me for help", "do it yourself" thing when people say things like "go and pray more". if i get upset about something, i know not to talk to my mom about it, becuase she'll say, well you are just being silly, just give it to God and forget about it. as though a hurt means nothing. it's minimizing anothers pain, and i am refusing to recieve those kinds of comments into my heart any more. well, i'm trying not to.