Character education programs....

[flicka]

My school district does this and it's quite successful. No money is being taken from core programs like reading/math and no special interest groups are specifically benefiting or being targeted. It's good to know that all employees of our school district can teach/encourage certain behaviors and are given the authority to enforce those behaviors.

Do kids come out perfect? No. But everyone involved knows what will and won't be tolerated so nobody is suprised by disciplinary action taken against those who continually ignore the rules. It's also good to know that the district won't just look the other way if bullying situations appear towards someone for any reason, and won't be swept under the rug by people who think it's all just kids being kids.

 

[Cerberus~]

I gotta agree with CC. Although in la-la land, this would be a good program to have, but I just don't trust The Man to instill morality into my children.

I think I'm a little more qualified to do that than The Man, man

 

[ChristianCenturion]

I gotta agree with CC. Although in la-la land, this would be a good program to have, but I just don't trust The Man to instill morality into my children.

I think I'm a little more qualified to do that than The Man, man

No need to go to such drastic measures and agree with me, you could agree with Phred (which was relatively close in view IMO) and not confuse me so much.

 

[ebia]

It seems to me that half the objections are based on a misunderstanding about what schools teach generally.

Schools don't teach facts. At least not to any significant degree. You couldn't possibly teach the kids enough facts to be of much use to them in life, and half the facts that are covered aren't much use to them anyway.

Schools are about teaching kids skills, about teaching them how to think, how to learn, how to interact with others, etc. Values are inseperable from that, especially in a social setting. Given that, it's better to be explicit about how you teach values than not. Teaching values is not about handing them the teachers personal moral code to memorize and put into practice, it is about getting the students to think about the effect they have on others, what is important in life, etc.

Secondly, I'd just like to make it clear that for a lot of kids, schools are the only place they have a chance learn decent values - a short talk with their parents quickly makes clear the sort of values they are exposed to at home.

 

[Aimee30]

In any fashion, the schools should crack down on bullies, when I went to school I had my fill of them. There is no reason a teacher should have to stand by while a kid is being tormented by bullies. This is not a normal part of life, nor should it have to happen regularly. Yes, people have to stand up for themselves, but it is not fair to someone with a nervous disorder or lack of self-confidence to have other people degrade their feelings of self-worth further. We need some sort of system at the school that teaches respect for others is good, you may be able to disagree and state what you disagree with others about, but there is no reason for kids to be calling each other "fat", "baby", "ugly", or even swear words that come out today at times. There is no reason to pick on the kid with poor personal hygiene instead of finding a more appropriate way of saying they need to take a shower. There is no reason for kids to be beating up on other kids and causing them black eyes, cut lips or even further extensive damage, Children need to be taught that at school as well at home it is place to respect others--you are free to disagree, but not to damage someone else temporarily or permanently on purpose. I'll put it this way, would you rather I call for the ability to sue the other kid's parents if they pick on my kid?

 

[beechy]

Yes, but why would one have to give homosexuality the favoritism and/or promotion when I can list 10 different social types right off the top of my head that would receive just as much benefit for the whole if it were a generalized and not-so-catered to moral teaching. That was a rhetorical question; the answer is that there are some that wish to attach their special interest to an otherwise general 'noble cause'. IMO

Yes, I think that given how controversial homosexuality is, a case can be made against introducing a book like the one we've been discussing when there are no kids in the school with gay parents, and where other parents object to its introduction into the curriculum. But if there are kids with gay parents in the school/class, and especially if the issue comes up on the playground, I think its appropriate to teach kids that some families are different, and that its not something to tease each other about.

 

[Chajara]

In any fashion, the schools should crack down on bullies, when I went to school I had my fill of them. There is no reason a teacher should have to stand by while a kid is being tormented by bullies. This is not a normal part of life, nor should it have to happen regularly. Yes, people have to stand up for themselves, but it is not fair to someone with a nervous disorder or lack of self-confidence to have other people degrade their feelings of self-worth further. We need some sort of system at the school that teaches respect for others is good, you may be able to disagree and state what you disagree with others about, but there is no reason for kids to be calling each other "fat", "baby", "ugly", or even swear words that come out today at times. There is no reason to pick on the kid with poor personal hygiene instead of finding a more appropriate way of saying they need to take a shower. There is no reason for kids to be beating up on other kids and causing them black eyes, cut lips or even further extensive damage, Children need to be taught that at school as well at home it is place to respect others--you are free to disagree, but not to damage someone else temporarily or permanently on purpose. I'll put it this way, would you rather I call for the ability to sue the other kid's parents if they pick on my kid?

Agreed. I'm looking to become an elementary school teacher and bullying is one of the things I plan to punish severely. I will not stand idly by while one group of kids terrorizes another, or worse, singles out one or two to pick on. If only more teachers bothered to do this and more parents punished their children for disrespecting others.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Agreed. I'm looking to become an elementary school teacher and bullying is one of the things I plan to punish severely. I will not stand idly by while one group of kids terrorizes another, or worse, singles out one or two to pick on. If only more teachers bothered to do this and more parents punished their children for disrespecting others.

You may find that you are not going to be the dictator on the school's policy on punishment. If you go beyond the school's policies and there is a complaint, you just wasted your education in preparing for that career... unless you are lucky and find another school somewhere else that doesn't know about an over-stepped boundary.
That aside, I suggest some counseling may be considered first. It appears by your language that you may be harboring some anger issues/unresolved emotions and your recent choices for terms i.e. "feel like choking you", "punish severely", etc. all when referring to children would send me a RED FLAG rather than a smile and welcome aboard. IMO

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Yes, I think that given how controversial homosexuality is, a case can be made against introducing a book like the one we've been discussing when there are no kids in the school with gay parents, and where other parents object to its introduction into the curriculum. But if there are kids with gay parents in the school/class, and especially if the issue comes up on the playground, I think its appropriate to teach kids that some families are different, and that its not something to tease each other about.

Or one could teach that all teasing is socially bad.

 

[beechy]

Or one could teach that all teasing is socially bad.

Yes, of course. Or one could address the circumstances head on, if it made sense to do so in a particular classroom -- especially since there's apparently a book that does just that. Why the sighing, CC? Bad day?

 

[ebia]

Agreed. I'm looking to become an elementary school teacher

Go for it.

and bullying is one of the things I plan to punish severely. I will not stand idly by while one group of kids terrorizes another, or worse, singles out one or two to pick on. If only more teachers bothered to do this and more parents punished their children for disrespecting others.

Hopefully before you are on your own in a classroom, you'll find out that punishing the bullies is not, on it's own, an effective way of dealing with bullying. I understand the sentiment, but stopping bullying requires much more subtlety than that. Any decent school has a whole school bullying policy, and to have any effect it is that policy that needs to be implemented.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Yes, of course. Or one could address the circumstances head on, if it made sense to do so in a particular classroom -- especially since there's apparently a book that does just that. Why the sighing, CC? Bad day?

Thanks for the hug.
Perhaps it is a conditioned response from previously seen opportunistic attempts by others (generalized - not implying you) to insert an advocacy/endorsement where a generalized and non-ideological approach would have been acceptable.
Re-reading your post, I now note that it was neutral and I used an emoticon where I shouldn't have.

...OR ... perhaps I am simply tired and touchy and I should bid a good night.
Good night.

 

[beechy]

Thanks for the hug.
Perhaps it is a conditioned response from previously seen opportunistic attempts by others (generalized - not implying you) to insert an advocacy/endorsement where a generalized and non-ideological approach would have been acceptable.
Re-reading your post, I now note that it was neutral and I used an emoticon where I shouldn't have.

...OR ... perhaps I am simply tired and touchy and I should bid a good night.
Good night.

Good night CC Thanks for the nice post.

 

[Cerberus~]

No need to go to such drastic measures and agree with me, you could agree with Phred (which was relatively close in view IMO) and not confuse me so much.

Yes, but that would have required me reading past the 3rd or 4th post, and bamboosaling you is just easier than...reading.

 

[charityagape]

character education program is based around six core values: citizenship, caring, fairness, respect, responsibility and trust.

In theory this is WONDERFULL. But just as some wouldn't want me to use this program to secretly attach my "agenda" to, I wouldn't want anyone else to do the same. Basically, I'd have to see the curriculum in order to decide if I wanted to complain or not.

I already teach my children that its not acceptable to make fun of anyone for any reason. Or to judge them, that's not there job or place.

Do I teach them that homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I do. I also teach them, that a "white" lie is a sin. That is what I believe, so that is what I teach. However, the most important thing I teach them is:

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 22:34-40 34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...+22:40&version=nkj&context=1&showtools=1#F12240 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.


Many Christians, like the Pharisees, get all hung up on the law. A long list of what you can do and what you can't. Yet, our own Jesus said that that loving God and loving your NEIGHBOR as you love yourself is enough to hang all the LAW on.

Neighbor isn't just other Christians or people you think are "okay", its everybody. Also, I think we forget, Christians, that we're the ones we're supposed to obey the bible. Why do we expect people who don't believe the bible to obey it?

Does that mean I want people to teach my children that what I've taught them is all wrong? Absolutely not. Also, I'd like legislation in this country to favor my beliefs, but then who doesn't?


As far as schools teaching anything from evolution to whatever, I don't care. Teach away, just don't hide from me what you're teaching so that I can offer a balance to it. Actually, I like my kids to hear what other people believe. I'm not paranoid that someone's going to convert them. I think there's more danger of that if you pretend that everyone holds your same worldview.

I don't want them to be mushrooms, hidden away in the dark. I want them to be roses, exposed to everything, even things they don't agree with, and still smelling sweet.


Note: When I say teach them anything you want, that's cool. But I think teaching a secular agenda as if its the only acceptable and intelligent belief system, is unacceptable to me.

[/font]

 

[ebia]

I already teach my children that its not acceptable to make fun of anyone for any reason. Or to judge them, that's not there job or place.[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/font]

Do you mean that it is not the school's job to teach this?

I'm afraid it has to be, because many parents do not teach their kids that, so schools can't operate without.

But, in any case, good teachers can't help but teach good values - you do that by the way you behave and the way you deal with conflicts that arise. It's not so much that schools should or should not teach values, as that it is impossible for schools to not teach values, so they had better do a good job of it.

None of that invalidates the values you teach at home.

 

[charityagape]

No, I don't mean it's not the schools job to teach it. It's just not the school's responsibility to teach it. Ultimatly its the parents. Also, schools don't seem to do a much better job of teaching it than parents.

 

[ebia]

No, I don't mean it's not the schools job to teach it. It's just not the school's responsibility to teach it. Ultimatly its the parents.

Fair enough

Also, schools don't seem to do a much better job of teaching it than parents.

That would depend on what school and what parent we are comparing.

I've no direct experience of US education, but it doesn't have a great reputation internationally in this regard.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

I've no direct experience of US education, but it doesn't have a great reputation internationally in this regard.

Is there some regard in which it DOES have a great reputation internationally?

 

[charityagape]

Sadly, not any more.