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There are many ways to waste time and energy and last days speculation is high on the list. My opinion is worthless. Only truth is of any value. Since there are so many different interpretations, all claiming to be correct, I sit on the sidelines. We will find out eventually. I think sooner, but I could be wrong.Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.
The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think.
I would not say uncomfortable, because I am certain of my rapture view, the anytime rapture view. The rapture timing window is in the shaded area. I am just saying the thread title is misleading.
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I am just saying the thread title is misleading.
My opinion is worthless.
Heh, excellent observation!How is it 'anytime' if it's confined only to the shaded area?
Anytime between now and when it takes place. The rapture could happen pre-trib (pre-70th week). Or it may not. But it has to take place before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist, on a undeterminable day during the 7 years.How is it 'anytime' if it's confined only to the shaded area?
Please do. The only time my words are worth anything is when it is according to God's word.Uhhh, ok. I'll take you at your word.
John, it seems to me that the video is focusing on leading people away from the pre-trib rapture view. The timing of the rapture is probably the most hotly contested subject on this forum.You think it's misleading to suggest that people may change their mind about how they interpret prophecy?
Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.
The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think.
In all fairness, the Messiah was said to only come once in the OT, but he is coming twice from a NT teaching. Could it be three times?
I dunno. What I do know is, there will be a great round up and execution of those not taking the mark.
and then the 5th trumpet lasts 5 months....17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Isaiah 63:48 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Daniel 9 and Isaiah 53 both say that the Messiah dies.The OT doesn't say he will only come once. It just predicts his coming; at that time there was no issue about whether it would be once or twice or whatever. During his ministry, he talked extensively about how he'd go away and then return again.
Brainwashing indoctrination. Heresy.Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.
The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think.
John, it seems to me that the video is focusing on leading people away from the pre-trib rapture view.
The timing of the rapture is probably the most hotly contested subject on this forum.
Post trib usually means after all the wrath God pours out as well.
Then he claims the tribulation is our cross to save ourselves.
The trumpets are also the wrath of God. Delivered by angels, not by the hands of men.Tribulation and wrath are two different issues. The Revelation separates them into two different categories; the Great Tribulation is described by 7 trumpets whereas the wrath is described with 7 bowls.
So, post-trib means after the tribulation. Then the wrath.
We view these as Second Coming through the lense of the first coming. Those in Jesus' day, were still looking for the total package. To an OT Jew rejecting Jesus as the Messiah there is only one coming. They will still be granted eternal life. Based on the verse that at the Second Coming they will see Jesus and the piercing scars from the Cross, then God will remove their blindness and heal them. It is this view some reject as the Word of God and blindly follow a false theology.Second Coming
SECOND COMING, the future return of Christ to the earth. A prominent doctrine of Christology, the predicted Second Advent of Christ is implied in hundreds of OT prophecies of future judgment on the world and a coming kingdom of righteousness on earth and is explicitly detailed in major NT passages. The last book of the Bible, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, refers specifically to His Second Coming itself (ch. 19), and the millennium and future state which follows (20-22).
1. General OT references. The OT presents a mingled prophecy of the first and second advents of Christ (cf. 1 Pet 1:10-12), often combining both comings in the same context (Isa 61:1-3; Luke 4:17-20). The first reference to the Second Coming is found in Deuteronomy 30:3 in the KJV rendering where it is predicted, “Then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.” The RSV obscures this prophecy by paraphrasing the expression “will return” by the tr. “will restore your fortunes.” The “return” results in their regathering to their ancient land and their spiritual and physical restoration. This is typical of OT prophecies of the Second Advent. The OT seldom pictures the Second Coming per se, but often dwells upon the circumstances of the Second Coming, such as the preceding regathering of Israel to the land (Jer 30:3; Amos 9:14, 15), and the results of the Second Coming—the judgment of the nations (Isa 2:4), deliverance of Israel (Jer 31:28), and a kingdom of righteousness and peace on earth (Ps 72:7).
2. Second Coming in the Psalms. The Second Coming of Christ is linked with the moral struggle between God and His creatures. Psalm 2 for instance, after picturing the world’s rejection of the sovereignty of God, declares God’s purpose, “I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill.” In the vv. which follow, the decree of God is stated concerning His purpose to place His Son over the nations, to subdue the nations “with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel” (2:9). On the basis of God’s intention to make His Son the King of the earth, the exhortation to earthly kings is “serve the Lord with fear, with trembling kiss his feet” (2:11). The conclusion is reached “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (2:12). This psalm is typical of the OT passages relating to the Second Coming. The event itself is assumed, but the results are detailed.
Psalm 24 is another great passage dealing with Christ’s coming as “the King of glory.” The gates of Jerusalem are exhorted to open to this King when He comes. His rule on the earth is based on the promise of Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the Lord’s and the fulness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein.”
Another complete presentation of the Second Coming of Christ and its result is found in Psalm 72, presented in the form of a prayer, but describing the certain results of Christ’s return. His dominion is described as “from sea to sea” (72:8). Kings and nations are described as serving Him (72:11). Psalm 72 ends with the prayer, “May his glory fill the whole earth!” Although in the form of an inspired prayer, it clearly anticipates fulfillment.
Other psalms are similar in character such as Psalm 96 which declares, “The Lord reigns!” (vs. 10), and states “For he comes, for he comes to judge the earth” (vs. 13). The present position of Christ seated at the right hand of the Father in Psalm 110:1, 2 is considered temporary, for the day will come when “the Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter” and “will execute judgment among the nations” (110:2, 6).
3. Second Coming in the Prophets. The major prophets take up the same theme of the coming of the Lord to reign. A familiar text is Isaiah 9:6, 7where it declares, “Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom” (vs. 7). The rule of the Messiah on earth is described in Isaiah 11 as one of complete righteousness and justice, of tranquility in nature, with universal knowledge of the Lord. Isaiah prays for the coming of the Lord (Isa 64:1), “O that thou wouldest rend the heavens and come down, that the mountains might quake at thy presence.” Isaiah’s great prophecy concludes in chs. 65; 66with a description of the reign of Christ on earth and the judgments which relate to it.
Jeremiah speaks of the results of the Lord’s coming when the Son of David “shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land” (Jer 23:5). The judgments and tribulation which precede the Second Coming are followed by the deliverance of Israel according to Jeremiah 30; 31, and many other prophecies in Jeremiah deal with the ultimate triumph of God during the reign of Christ. The presentation of the right to rule over the earth following His Second Coming is described in Daniel 7:13, 14, where the Son of man is given dominion over the entire earth and an everlasting kingdom.
One of the most specific references to the Second Coming in the OT is in Zechariah 14:3-5. The Lord is described as fighting in defense of Israel, and the statement is made, “On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives, which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward.” The revelation goes on to picture that “the Lordwill become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord will be one and his name one” (Zech 14:9).
We view these as Second Coming through the lense of the first coming. Those in Jesus' day, were still looking for the total package. To an OT Jew rejecting Jesus as the Messiah there is only one coming. They will still be granted eternal life. Based on the verse that at the Second Coming they will see Jesus and the piercing scars from the Cross, then God will remove their blindness and heal them. It is this view some reject as the Word of God and blindly follow a false theology.
They claim others just created this alleged error of thinking (God working directly with the Jews), and give these Christians derogatory titles. Look at those who sling spiteful accusations. Then avoid their theology. Am I being spiteful in this post? No, just pointing out the facts. Many Israelis living today who reject Christ will ask at the Second Coming about the scars. They will not be placed in the church, but they will be eternally saved. If being saved is falsely touted as enduring to the end, then one should not reject the Scripture that says Israel will be saved in a day.
People ignore the fact that The Second Coming is for Israel. Christ is on earth separating the sheep from the goats. That is Christ dealing with the Nation of Israel directly. Even some of Israel will still reject God and be rejected by God. It defies logic that some think the church hangs around after the Second Coming. The tribulation is about Jacob. If Christ is on earth doing the final harvest, how do some reconcile He snuck past the church and started dealing with the Nation of Israel without even a, "Hello"! Wake up folks. The church is the last in and the first out. The last shall be first and the first shall be last. Perhaps that verse has been removed from Bibles in the last 20 years?
The seals deal with the church. ALL those in Christ redeemed from Adam's descendants, from Abel, to the last soul accepting the Atonement. These are in Christ and the majority in Paradise. These are raptured at the 6th seal. That is the Second Coming when the Lamb comes to save the Nation of Israel, physically. The Trumpets are the rallying Cry, of Christ, fulfilling all OT prophecies for the house of Jacob.
Well first of all, at minute 1:55, the speaker does not accurately describe what the pre-trib rapture view is. The pre-trib view is a misnomer for pre-70th week, not pre-great trbiulation as the speakers says.Can you explain any of the reasons the video gives for this?
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