Changing beliefs

[AV1611VET]

I didn't ask for a story. I asked to be shown.

You can't be shown your way.

Your spirit is dead because of sin.

Only when your spirit is quickened (made alive) can you see.

And even then, it's not with the optic nerves.

 

[selfinflikted]

You can't be shown your way.

Your spirit is dead because of sin.

Only when your spirit is quickened (made alive) can you see.

And even then, it's not with the optic nerves.

Of course not. Not with any of my senses, right? Only with my imagination.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course not. Not with any of my senses, right? Only with my imagination.

spirit ≠ imagination

 

[selfinflikted]

spirit ≠ imagination

Can you explain, pragmatically, how the two are different?

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you explain, pragmatically, how the two are different?

Not to your satisfaction.

 

[Heissonear]

No evidence? Wrong. It may not be sufficient evidence to make the hypothesis more than the leading hypothesis, but it's significantly more than you have for any of your claims.

And again, all because you do not know Him, and even the Dynamics of His Kingdom in our midst.

Rather than obtaining "evidence" you continue to sit on the sidelines and promote worldly opinions.

You are Spiritually empty handed, Dr. Strawberry. A real life dilemma!

Now without firsthand evidence, tell us His Kingdom and Eternal Beings are not in our midst. You want us to follow the blind, empty handed to what we were revealed!


.

 

[Heissonear]

Can you explain, pragmatically, how the two are different?

.

You show your ignorance and dilemma.

.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

And again, all because you do not know Him, and even the Dynamics of His Kingdom in our midst.

Explain these dynamics, as you so grandly call them, of the Kingdom of your invisible friend. Explain them in detail.

Rather than obtaining "evidence" you continue to sit on the sidelines and promote worldly opinions.

I'm promoting nothing but your lack of evidence and abundance of hot air.

You are Spiritually empty handed, Dr. Strawberry. A real life dilemma!

It might be if you were able to show that your "spiritual awareness" was anything other than wishful thinking and intoxication.

Now without firsthand evidence, tell us His Kingdom and Eternal Beings are not in our midst.

No, I confess I can't make the same claims that you do about the special, magical kingdom where your invisible friend lives.

You want us to follow the blind, empty handed to what we were revealed!

That sentence is meaningless. Maybe a little early in the day for the hard stuff...? Just a suggestion.

 

[AV1611VET]

.

You show your ignorance and dilemma.

.

Indeed.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Indeed.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That's a pretty hopeless excuse for being unable to explain any difference between spirit and imagination.

 

[Dizredux]

None of the drilling operation used any principle which violated the idea of YEC, and there is absolutely no need to use any principle of evolution.

Unlike biology which is awkward to me, I said the above with my professional honor. Your challenge is very welcome.

Errr Somehow I thought modern Geology was based on the idea of an old earth. Can you show me in any university level Geology book where the idea of a less than 10,000 year old earth is taken seriously?

But in one sense you are correct, except for perhaps index fossils, as far as I know Geology has little to do with evolution. It however, has a lot to do with an old earth.

Dizredux

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a pretty hopeless excuse for being unable to explain any difference between spirit and imagination.

Because I used the words, "to your satisfaction"?

I agree.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Because I used the words, "to your satisfaction"?

I agree.

No, not because of those words, as they weren't in the post I quoted. But because, as I said, your quote was a poor excuse for being unable to explain any difference between spirit and imagination.

 

[selfinflikted]

Not to your satisfaction.

IOW: You can't explain the difference at all.

Besides, how would you know what explanation would be satisfactory to me? I didn't qualify. I just asked for the difference. But your unwillingness to supply the answer speaks volumes.

 

[AV1611VET]

Besides, how would you know what explanation would be satisfactory to me?

You must have sigs blocked?

 

[selfinflikted]

You must have sigs blocked?

I must've missed something. You posted a quote that really has nothing to do with the practical difference between imagination and spirit.

I'm asking you to explain the difference. Not provide a Bible verse with a tenuous connection.

 

[MikeCarra]

Errr Somehow I thought modern Geology was based on the idea of an old earth.

It is. What Juvenissun is pointing out that since YEC is only interested in "results" (ie in the world of YEC physics and chemistry don't function as they do in the REAL world it can somehow wind up with massive layers of black shale deposited in apparently minutes in calm water --unlike what clay ACTUALLY does-- and then the organics can somehow be matured thermally and biochemically to form oil which somehow migrates through permeable rocks at rocket-like speeds to wind up in formations...NONE OF WHICH EVEN BEGIN TO MAKE SENSE using regular physics and chemistry) that a drill drilling into a petroleum formation can find oil.

Unfortunately the physics and chemistry that the drillers use and the exploration geologists use is the same we use in real life.

YEC's want to have it both ways: physics and chemistry in the YEC world is weirdly different and bears no relationship to the physics and chemistry of the real world where the same oil and gas are exploited.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You must have sigs blocked?

Satisfactory to him, AV -- we're already aware that you hold yourself to a lower standard.

 

[selfinflikted]

Satisfactory to him, AV -- we're already aware that you hold yourself to a lower standard.

If that bit he quoted from the Bible was supposed to be the explanation then, he's right - that's not satisfactory as that's no explanation at all.

I asked for a practical difference. Apparently there is none, so therefore:

spirit = imagination.

 

[Michael]

It is. What Juvenissun is pointing out that since YEC is only interested in "results" (ie in the world of YEC physics and chemistry don't function as they do in the REAL world it can somehow wind up with massive layers of black shale deposited in apparently minutes in calm water --unlike what clay ACTUALLY does-- and then the organics can somehow be matured thermally and biochemically to form oil which somehow migrates through permeable rocks at rocket-like speeds to wind up in formations...NONE OF WHICH EVEN BEGIN TO MAKE SENSE using regular physics and chemistry) that a drill drilling into a petroleum formation can find oil.

Unfortunately the physics and chemistry that the drillers use and the exploration geologists use is the same we use in real life.

YEC's want to have it both ways: physics and chemistry in the YEC world is weirdly different and bears no relationship to the physics and chemistry of the real world where the same oil and gas are exploited.

The consistent pattern that plays out, almost regardless of the topic, is that one is forced to ignore a growing set evidence in terms of the physics and chemistry and or other scientific options in favor of the one "belief" (whatever it is) that has become "dogma". No amount of inconvenient facts seems to put a dent in that dogma, until they *allow* it to occur. Once they internally *allow* that conflict to resolve itself, beliefs can change. Until they internally *want* that change to occur however, it just won't. The mental gymnastics get more intense and less credible, even to themselves, and eventually they just 'let go' (assuming they ever do).

In the case of YEC, it has in some cases unfortunately become intimately intertwined with their belief in Christ, their beliefs in God, etc. Somehow in their mind it's all interwoven into one inseparable "belief system". In other cases it can simply be due to prestige issues, financial concerns, etc. Sooner or later the internal conflict resolves itself, or not, depending on the choice of the individual.