Change of the Sabbath

[Symes]

This new thread about the Sabbath is not to be used by anyone to promote their own spin on texts. It is here just to give everyone a clean new chance to come forward with the text that says the Sabbath has now been changed. It is not about interpreting one text to make it mean something that it does not. Just come clean and tell me and others where does the Bible say the Sabbath has been changed.

"Why don't you take up my challenge to you and show me where the Sabbath has been changed?"

 

[trucker]

This new thread about the Sabbath is not to be used by anyone to promote their own spin on texts. It is here just to give everyone a clean new chance to come forward with the text that says the Sabbath has now been changed. It is not about interpreting one text to make it mean something that it does not. Just come clean and tell me and others where does the Bible say the Sabbath has been changed.

"Why don't you take up my challenge to you and show me where the Sabbath has been changed?"

Symes,

You poor boy. Why don't you quit demanding legalism to be preformed. You need to desperately understand covenant.

You have been told more than once that there is no such scripture.

I am not trying to spin anything. Show one instance God met with His Children on the Sabbath after the resurrection.

Synagogue meetings will not suffice. I said God met with His Children. Can you establish That God in any form was at any synagogue meeting after the resurrection?

trucker

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Symes: We have answered you. The sabbath has not been changed we are just not under the Law anymore. How much more clear can it be made. There are already plenty of threads for this debate why start another one. None of us are claiming the sabbath has been changed we are claiming we are not under the Law anymore and therefore free to worship on the day of our choosing, we have even provided you Biblical evidence of why we choose Sunday.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Symes, the challange is to you to show from the bible that gentile christians are bound by the Sabbath Law of the Old Covenant given as a special sign between the Israelites and God, (and no others), in the New Testament . .

And I agree . . the question has been asked and answered several times over . . .


Peace in Him . . .

 

[Symes]

This thread is 100 percent about the change of the Sabbath, nothing else. If anyone wants to ask another question, then start your own thread up. Don't hi-jack mine.

have been told more than once that there is no such scripture.

This is excellent news.

Another truthful answer coming up.

The sabbath has not been changed

I like it when people are willing to admit the truth. Nopw what you do about it is your worry and problem. I have done something about it. The challenge is now for those who admit the Sabbath has not been changed. Thankyou for your honesty. God will reward you for it.

Remember, this thread is to find a text that says the Sabbath has been changed, no spin, OK. Just the truth.

 

[Symes]

"Why don't you take up my challenge to you and show me where the Sabbath has been changed?"

Still waiting for that text. I am not going to hold my breath while I wait or I may end up in real trouble.

 

[Symes]

Still no one can offer me the missing text. Seeing that there is none wouldn't it be best now for all to admit the fact that in the New Testament there has never been a change. The Roman Catholic Church is honest enough to say so. Only two on here have been honest enough to admit there is no change.

I would assume under the circumstances that now no one can find a text to say that the Sabbath has been changed we will see many people become Sabbath keepers.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

No Symes you are wrong about that. We won't see many people become sabbatarians as we are NOT under a law to keep the sabbath. That is the problem, you are teaching bondage and a curse. You cannot show anywhere in the New Testament that shows we are to keep the sabbath. We are not supposed to keep the sabbath any longer, we are free to worship any day we please. This what we get by grace, freedom from the Law!

 

[Symes]

flesh99

This is your statement from your previous post.

The sabbath has not been changed

Now when something has not been changed then it is still the same. Don't try and argue here to high jack this thread. Just give the text or agree with the Roman Catholic Church and say that Adventists are the only ones who are following hwat is said in the Bible. There are other Sabbath keepers now. They may not have been aware of them when that statement was made. Don't spin text or words here to try and support Sunday worship. This is not the thread for it. I will get that quote from the Catholic Church and put ity here for all to see.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I am not supporting Sunday worship, I am contradicting your assertion that we are under a law to worship on a certain day. I will do this in every thread you assert that we are. You are teaching bondage under the Law and that will not go un-contradicted. We are not under a Law to worship on any specific day so it doesn't matter what day is the sabbath, we can worship on any day we feel led to worship. You are free to worship on Saturday, and no-one would prevent you from doing that, but you are not free to put others under the Law without being challenged. You seem to think that want you to worship on Sunday and this is not the case, what we want is for you to stop teaching the heretical doctrine that Saturday worship is a Law for Christians when it clearly is not.

 

[Symes]

I am not supporting Sunday worship

No spin here flesh99 just what Bible says. I am going to post what the Roman Catholic Church says about Sabbath worship.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The Bible says we are not under the Law Symes, that is what it says. There is no spin to that at all. The ten commandments, which you base your sabbath worship on are refered to as:

1. The ministry of death
2. The ministry of condemnation
3. That which will fade away

There is no spin. We are not under the Law at all. You are the one adding to the scripture by saying that we are under parts of the Law. The day that sabbath falls on has not changed, however what has changed is us being under the Law. So in essence you are wrong. Sabbath worship is no more important than Wednesday night Bible study. The sabbath is still on the same day only it doesn't mean anything to us as Christians.

 

[Symes]

"but the Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old...during His (Jesus) mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The gospels plainly evince to him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found..."And they returned and prepared spices and ointments and rested on the Sabbath day according to the commandment." "But on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came, bringing the spices they had prepared Good Friday evening, because the Sabbath drew near." Verse 54. This action on the part of the personal friends of the Saviour, proves beyond contradiction that after His death they kept "holy" the Saturday and regarded the Sunday as any other day of the week....that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists have the exclusive weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self-defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday."

[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 16, 1893.]

"The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...Having disposed of every text to be found in the New Testament referring to the Sabbath (Saturday), and to the first day of the week (Sunday); and having shown conclusively from these texts, that, so far, not a shadow of pretext can be found in the Sacred Volume for the Biblical substitution of Sunday for Saturday; it only remains for us to investigate the meaning of the expressions "Lord's Day," and "day of the Lord," to be found in the New Testament, which we propose to do in our next article, and conclude with apposite remarks on the incongruities of a system of religion which we shall have proved to be indefensible, self-contradictory, and suicidal."


******************* [From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 23, 1893.]


I could have quoted much more but they are very happy to admit that the Sabbath has not been changed.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I am happy to admit that the sabbath is still Saturday. But you are ignoring the point, we are not under ANY law to worship on a specific day. This is where the problem lies, in what you teach there is accursedness and bondage. Of course the sabbath is the same day, not one of us has said different and yet you assert that is what we mean. This is not what we mean, we mean we are under NO LAW to worship on a certain day. Stop ignoring the obvious and start reading your Bible, try Galations for instance.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Symes, the question is the wrong question . . and it plays on semantics . . and it leads the discussion astray . .

The Sabbath is a Jewish Law . .

The Roman Catholic Church recognizes that it is a Jewish Law - a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt:

Deu 5:15

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

That it is a SIGN of an irrevocable convenant does not mean that it is eternal, or that it does not have an end . . a covenant when it is FULFILLED is not Revoked! Those are two different issues . .

If a Covenant is revoked, then that means it will never be fulfilled . .it is made null and void . . but Christ said He did not come to do that . . He did not come to destroy the law . .but to FULFILL IT . . once the convenant has been fulfilled, it has ENDED and IS NO LONGER IN FORCE!

Here is what else the Catholic Church teaches about the Sabbath and the Sunday worship of Christians:

Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week" )Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1. Jn 20:1) Because it is the "first day", the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eigth day" following the sabbath, (Mk 16:1, Mt 28:1) it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) . .

Also

Sunday is experessly distinguished from the sabath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ.

Those who lived according to the old order of thngs have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn 9, 1 SCh 10, 88)

[/quote]

Now, here we have a clear record from the early Church that worship on the sabbath was changed to worship on the Lord's Day . . and how early was this proof? Ignatius knew St John the Apostle, he became Bishop of Antioch 30 years BEFORE the Apostle John's death . . I think Ignatius, who still had the words of the Apostle's ringing in his ears, knew which day Christians worshipped on . .

Here is a page that gives us the history of this most holy martyr for Christ:

http://www.csfunl.com/reading/sketches/1.2.html



Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

"

I could have quoted much more but they are very happy to admit that the Sabbath has not been changed.

Symes . . you are making a strawman argument . . you are arguing something that no one is arguing . .

The Sabbath is the Sabbath . . The Lord's Day is the Lord's Day . . the Sabbath was not CHANGED to Sunday . .

WORSHIP was changed from the Sabbath to the Lord's Day . . .


Your whole line of reasoning assumes that the sabath was changed to Sunday . . this is false . . My post above demonstrates this and demonstrates that the Apostolic Church understood they had left Sabbath worship for The 1st day of the week, The Lord's Day worship . . .


we have no argument or disagreement with you except that you keep trying to make it as though we call Sunday the Sabbath . . we don't . . .


Peace in Him!

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Well we also disagree that we are supposed to worship on a specific day because the Law says so!

 

[deu58]

hello Symes

I am still waiting for you to show the command from the New Testament that the Christian believer is bound by the Jewish Sabbath. I asked you to provide that information long before you started this thread and, as usuall, you never did.

If what you say is true, that we are obligated to keep the Sabbath, then there must
be some instructions in the New Testament regarding this. Because you do not keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner as it is written in the Old Covenant to do so{I am not talking about the oral law but the written Mosaic law}

Strangly enough, When most Adventists are challenged with this they accuse people of trying to bind the Old Testament law on them!

As has already been stated by so many to you so many times no one has said that the Saturday is not the Sabbath day of the Old Testament law. What has been said and is true the New Testament makes abundantly clear that there are no Times, Seasons, days, newmoons, nor any other such thing from the Old Testament binding on the Believer today.

So if you wish to keep the Sabbath and you can find no instructions in the New Testament as to how you should keep it today then you need to follow the instructions laid out in the Old Testament. For if God has not removed the necessity of observing the day then it is only obvious that he did not remove the reqiurements to properly observe the day. If you are going to observe the day you must do so as God has given instruction to do.

yours in Christ
deu58