Change is so hard...

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Desi:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Does that spell it out for you enough?

 

[seebs]

This is something you made up. We are all responsible for ourselves and how we behave. Her behaving poorly as a wife only reflects on her, leaving husband. Her husband is responsible for himself and will answer to Christ for his deficiencies.

I know this is considered weird by many people, but my denomination believes that there is also life before death. Our founder, generally regarded as a bit of a rebel, spent a lot of time talking about the importance of doing the right thing now, rather than waiting for someone else to fix it.

I believe what the Bible says. She has no authority as a wife "to call him on his shortcomings." If I am wrong please quote the scripture and I will freely admit it. Two wrongs do not make right.

I don't find what you claim to believe anywhere in the Bible.

First off, the authority of husbands and wives is frequently described as mutual in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 7:3-4
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Secondly, there is a universal right, and indeed obligation, among Christians to correct others who sin against them. His treatment of her is clearly inappropriate; it is legitimate for her to draw this to his attention.

 

[JillLars]

Jenna, I am praying for you

 

[William Nunn]

I know this is considered weird by many people, but my denomination believes that there is also life before death. Our founder, generally regarded as a bit of a rebel, spent a lot of time talking about the importance of doing the right thing now, rather than waiting for someone else to fix it.



I don't find what you claim to believe anywhere in the Bible.

First off, the authority of husbands and wives is frequently described as mutual in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 7:3-4
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Secondly, there is a universal right, and indeed obligation, among Christians to correct others who sin against them. His treatment of her is clearly inappropriate; it is legitimate for her to draw this to his attention.

YES! I guess I didn't read it in the OP, but now that she's said that he hits her, it's totally diferent. You shouldn't leave a husband, but this man isn't a husband - he's a coward. Unless Jenna was coming at him with an ice pick or doing something insane then hitting is unacceptable and disgusting.

 

[Micaiah]

I believe many Christians have adopted the mind set of the world on the matter of physical violence. I presume the following passage refers to both male and female servants.

1 Peter 2

Submission to Masters
(2) 18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. 19For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[6] leaving us[7] an example, that you should follow His steps:

22"Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth";[8]

23who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed. 25For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer[9] of your souls.

Jesus is our perfect example. How unjust that He should have suffered and died. He did because He loved us. What would have happened if He cried foul and left earth when people began to 'physically abuse Him'. We are encouraged as Christians to endure suffering and respond in love because of what Christ did for us.

I am not saying it is right for your husband to have slapped you. Or that it is wrong for a woman to leave her husband if there is a threat of serious violence.

Keep in mind the psychological trauma ALL members of a family (wife, husband, children) suffer from a marriage breakup.

 

[desi]

Desi:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Does that spell it out for you enough?

No, it does not mention marriage. I will not humor you by explaining this verse in the context in which it was written, as I have many times before. Reading your out of context verses is getting old. Try finding verses related to the topic before you post.

 

[desi]

I know this is considered weird by many people, but my denomination believes that there is also life before death. Our founder, generally regarded as a bit of a rebel, spent a lot of time talking about the importance of doing the right thing now, rather than waiting for someone else to fix it.

When doing 'the right thing' is contrary to how the Bible directs us to behave it is not the right thing.

I don't find what you claim to believe anywhere in the Bible.

Where do you find a wife leaving her husband in the Bible, other than the case of the fellow who's wife left him to be a prostitute?

First off, the authority of husbands and wives is frequently described as mutual in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 7:3-4
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Yes! Yes!

Secondly, there is a universal right, and indeed obligation, among Christians to correct others who sin against them. His treatment of her is clearly inappropriate; it is legitimate for her to draw this to his attention.

Sort of. Its not a "universal right". She can draw it to his attention yes, leave him because of it no. Wives are to be submissive to their husbands and husbands are to love their wives. If a husband does not treat his wife right she is not allowed to be unsubmissive to him. If I am wrong please point out a Biblical verse showing me in error so I can relent.

 

[JillLars]

Desi, I think you should just leave your opinions out of this right now and try to give Jenna a little support and help her through this hard time. Your insensitivity astounds me.

 

[Jenna]

I hope that y'all don't mind, but I'm not going to talk about this anymore. I'm sorry. Of course everyone is free to discuss everything amongst themselves, but I find it more than a little distressing to bother in here.


Have a blessed day, all.

 

[seebs]

When doing 'the right thing' is contrary to how the Bible directs us to behave it is not the right thing.

If the Bible appears to be directing us to act in a way contrary to the conscience God gave us, we have misunderstood it.

Where do you find a wife leaving her husband in the Bible, other than the case of the fellow who's wife left him to be a prostitute?

I found it right next to the people taking advice from strangers over the internet.

Sort of. Its not a "universal right". She can draw it to his attention yes, leave him because of it no. Wives are to be submissive to their husbands and husbands are to love their wives. If a husband does not treat his wife right she is not allowed to be unsubmissive to him. If I am wrong please point out a Biblical verse showing me in error so I can relent.

How about we try it this way: You want me to believe that wives must "submit" in a very complete way requiring them to tolerate abuse and everything. How about you show me why I should believe that? I haven't seen anything that convinces me that this is even similar to the intent of the passages in question.

 

[JillLars]

Love you Jenna, I'm prayin for ya!

 

[Vollkommen Warrior]

"Nonsense, if you leave him you are wrong because you are not treating him as the Bible demands. If your husband is not treating you right you need to defer to your father or brother, get a male from your family involved otherwise your marriage is heading for disaster."

This is a bunch of garbaage again. Way too much "male/female" role obsession that leads nowhere. The women on this forum have GOT to be insulted by this behavior. This is seriously going to drive females away from this forum and can't represent a true calling. Hang in there Jenna, you are definitely doing the right thing and have an excellent grasp on things so far!

"Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Does that spell it out for you enough?"

This is EXACTLY point on! To answer, no I don't think he gets it. He is either making jokes at us or is not within the realm of reality. Most likely he has a "subordinate" facilitating. Coersion only works with a supporter.

 

[kelly_martin99]

Jenna,

It seems to me that perhaps you both need help in this situation. It is very important to understand that although you feel that he has indeed done wrong, he may very well feel the same way. Encourage your husband to seek help with you. Offer him your promise to change as well. It has been my experience that one person is never to blame in these situations (even if it seems easier to believe so). Running away is not going to solve your problems or calm his fears. I am not saying you should put the entire world in front of you but consider that decisions you make will effect many people. It is for the best of you and your family to recognize where each of you may or may not be falling short. I wish you the best of luck.

God Bless You

Kelly

 

[desi]

Many people here think its acceptable for a wife to leave her husband despite my objections. Every instance of a wife moving out in anger, save one, I have witnessed has led to divorce. This experience coupled with a lack of precedent for this in the Bible leads me to believe it is a bad idea. This is not insensitivity, it is concern for Jenna's marriage! If any of you can point to a situation in the Bible where a wife gets fed up and leaves her husband for a time, except for the example of the woman who left to be a prostitute I will relent. Until then Jenna, I pray for you and beseech you to return home to work things out.

 

[kelly_martin99]

She is not divorcing him just leaving until he straightens out. If her side of the story is accurate then this is probably the best thing for her right now. Your statement that people treat us based on how we treat them has little bearing in reality. Abusive spouses do not abuse based on how they are treated. Controlling spouses usually do not control based on how they are treated but from a lack of self respect.

Ine the OP she describes a very emotionally abusive relationship. She does not have to stay and take it. She can seperate herself from the situation and pray that God will heal her damaged emotions, her husband, and her marriage. This is in fact what she has stated she plans to do. Why in the world would you want someone to stay in home that they are abused in? There is no compassion and love in your words for this hurting soul. As long as she steers clear of divorce and focuses on prayer and healing her marriage then she is doing the right thing. Abusers have no basis in reality for their actions, it is often based on a percieved wrong or their own psychological problems. The verbal insults and constant degrading are commonly precursors to very real physical abuse. It is best she protect herself and offer it up to God so that he can heal the damage already done to her emotionally and take care of her marriage. Your advice has the real possibility of placing her in the way of bodily harm and is ill conceived.

You can not solve a relationship issue by yourself. Perhaps it was hit right on the head when she was told to stay. Running away will not solve his fears and will not make the situation better. all things considered help is needed by both involved in order to fix the problem.

God bless

Kel

 

[Jenna]

I find it interesting that people would take my words to mean that I believe myself to be without sin, just finger pointing at someone else. That isn't the case, and never has been. The notion to separate from my husband wasn't some new fangle idea that just popped into my head one morning, out of the blue. We have been struggling from the beginning, or rather, I have. lol Yeah, maybe that makes me the 'bad' person, in that not only do I want to be able to cheerfully fulfill my promises to him.....I'd actually like him to at least attempt to do the same for me. For as long as there is hope that he will open his heart to me, I can hold on. What I can't live with is the idea of spending my entire adult life as nothing more than a slave. I signed on to be a WIFE, a HELP-MEET, not someone's whipping girl to take out all of their aggressions and angers on. I have worth, and I can't stand to live in a situation where the person whose opinion means the most to me spends his time showing me his contempt. All I've wanted was the chance for change, for him to show me that I'm wanted. Is that so much to ask for? I ask and ask, beg and plead, rage and fight. Well, you know what? I'm tired. I am completely and utterly exhausted. I haven't given up on him, but at the rate that we're going, I don't know if there's going to be anything left of me should he ever get it into his thick head that I'm worth truly loving.

 

[LadyBird]

You deserve to be happy Jenna and so does your husband. If he not willing to work things out, then I guess you will have to make some difficult desicions. Life is too short to be unhappy all the time.

 

[desi]

You deserve to be happy Jenna and so does your husband. If he not willing to work things out, then I guess you will have to make some difficult desicions. Life is too short to be unhappy all the time.

This is not Biblical advice! Happiness is not a staple of Christianity. However, it is a secular staple. Marriage is hard at times. Giving up during these hard times is short sighted and selfish as it usually is self centered and harmful to all involved in the long run.

 

[LadyBird]

Well desi, if a spouse REFUSES to work things out and just gives up...what else is a person going to do? Just sit around and wait for them to come around, IF they ever do decide to? I agree, if they are both trying to fix things then fix them. But if someone isn't willing to and doens't want things to get better, what is a person supposed to do?

I agree, marriage is hard at times and can be hard a lot of the time and "giving up in hard times is short sighted and selfish." FYI, this is what happened to my parents. They stopped talking and gave up 10 years before my mom left. Those years were so unbelieveably miserable for them and for me and my sister. Their marriage was a slow, painful death and me and my sister had watch them fall through the cracks and become another statistic. I wish that my mom would have left sooner because they had both stopped trying to fix things and gave up. Yes, I wish that they would have worked things out...but neither of them were willing to so what are they supposed to do?

I do believe that there is only so much a person can mentally handle. And I don't think that divorce is the solution to a problem. If anything, it creates more problems. But what I am saying is that what if the other person doens't want to fix things?

Maybe I should clarify, Jenna, I was not encouraging you to leave your husband...I would never do that. All I meant was that you will have difficult desicions to make in the future if he doens't want to work on things.

 

[LadyBird]

Desi, I think you should just leave your opinions out of this right now and try to give Jenna a little support and help her through this hard time. Your insensitivity astounds me.

I second that .