Change churches? Please help!?

[Vicissa]

(Further down in replies I give a little more information)

I've been going to the same church now for 4 years. All has been well for most of the time, but over the last 8 months things have declined. We have two pastors, our senior pastor, who doesn't do sermons anymore for medical reasons, and an associate pastor, who basically does all the speaking. Well, in May, my family ran into some financial problems. I went to the church, because they have a special fund they take once a month to help for situations like mine. I talked to the Sr. Pastors wife, she advised me to get help from the church, to talk to Assoc. Pastor and get it set up. I went to him, crying, upset, scared, and just looking for a helping hand and comfort. I felt like such a idiot, because he just kind of looked at me like, "sorry to hear it" and said he wanted to talk to my husband (he doesn't go and hasn't gone). That was it. In the past another member told me about her concern that there is too much music and too little of a message (usually 45 min. of music 15 min. of message), but I didn't let it get to me and didn't pursue it, because I didn't want to "rock the boat." After that, it seemed our messages, even though short, seemed very political (Comments on supporting the Iraq war, how Islam is violent, how Bush is the right pick, and just general comments on current news). I don't have a problem with these issues being mentioned occasionally, since at times we need to know how the bible pertains to current issues, but it seems like every single Sunday. I don't feel we're called together to worship God, not discuss the evilness of Islam, or who is the man who should be president of the US. These issues bothered me more and more, so I decided to go to the source. I wrote our pastor a letter, and let him know how I felt. I can honestly say it was a letter that wasn't sharply written, and it wasn't all negative. I told him the problems I listed above, and that I felt like maybe he didn't like me, or know how to deal with me or talk to me. After 5 days, I emailed him to make sure he got it. He said he did, he had a family member who was in pain, and perhaps we could discuss it in a few weeks. Nearly 4 weeks later, I haven't heard a word from him. I let him know that I was thinking of leaving the church. I talked to the Pastors wife who I'm close to. She doesn't agree about the politiking part, but she does agree that maybe he isn't as open and he's more reserved.

My question is this? Are these good reasons to switch churches???

 

[Leimeng]

~ You should go to a church because that is the congregation that GOD put you in. If GOD did not put you in your current congregation, I would advise seeking HIM and asking where HE wants you to go. Pastor's are people and they are not perfect. I do not know the specifics of the situation you mentioned beyond what you wrote. So I will not even begin to suggest that there is some sort of chicanary going on there. Pray about it. If GOD wants you to attend another congregation, then HE will let you know. If HE wants you stay where you are. HE will let you know. I would strongly encourage you to listen to HIM. If HE says go to another church and you dont, then you are fighting GOD. I have found that when I fight GOD I ALWAYS loose,

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~

If at First You Don't Succeed, Skydiving Isn't for You

 

[Ave Maria]

Personally, I'd definitely change churches. It seems like this church is more interested in politics than they are in God's Word.

 

[Evie]

I've been going to the same church now for 4 years. All has been well for most of the time, but over the last 8 months things have declined. We have two pastors, our senior pastor, who doesn't do sermons anymore for medical reasons, and an associate pastor, who basically does all the speaking. Well, in May, my family ran into some financial problems. I went to the church, because they have a special fund they take once a month to help for situations like mine. I talked to the Sr. Pastors wife, she advised me to get help from the church, to talk to Assoc. Pastor and get it set up. I went to him, crying, upset, scared, and just looking for a helping hand and comfort. I felt like such a idiot, because he just kind of looked at me like, "sorry to hear it" and said he wanted to talk to my husband (he doesn't go and hasn't gone). That was it. In the past another member told me about her concern that there is too much music and too little of a message (usually 45 min. of music 15 min. of message), but I didn't let it get to me and didn't pursue it, because I didn't want to "rock the boat." After that, it seemed our messages, even though short, seemed very political (Comments on supporting the Iraq war, how Islam is violent, how Bush is the right pick, and just general comments on current news). I don't have a problem with these issues being mentioned occasionally, since at times we need to know how the bible pertains to current issues, but it seems like every single Sunday. I don't feel we're called together to worship God, not discuss the evilness of Islam, or who is the man who should be president of the US. These issues bothered me more and more, so I decided to go to the source. I wrote our pastor a letter, and let him know how I felt. I can honestly say it was a letter that wasn't sharply written, and it wasn't all negative. I told him the problems I listed above, and that I felt like maybe he didn't like me, or know how to deal with me or talk to me. After 5 days, I emailed him to make sure he got it. He said he did, he had a family member who was in pain, and perhaps we could discuss it in a few weeks. Nearly 4 weeks later, I haven't heard a word from him. I let him know that I was thinking of leaving the church. I talked to the Pastors wife who I'm close to. She doesn't agree about the politiking part, but she does agree that maybe he isn't as open and he's more reserved.

My question is this? Are these good reasons to switch churches???

hmmm,ask God to direct you. Pray and seek Him first before making a huge step like that. Personally,just because I recently went through my own trial with our old church,I would leave. It's just my opioin though. I will pray for your situation.

 

[drstevej]

Vicissa,

Thanks for sharing your situation. I can understand your confusion and it seems like your church is going through some struggles at the leadership level. I have been a pastor 28 years and I am very perplexed by the responses to your requests for help.

Changing churches is certainly an option, but not the only one. Are there some spiritually mature women that can encourage you and help you sort through your feelings and concerns as well as give you some perspective? It is good to have some mature female mentors in your life to disciple you.

May the Lord give you wisdom.

Steve

 

[Vicissa]

Thank you for the responses. I want to give a little bit more detail if that's okay?
Those issues are what brought this question about switching churches on, but there are a few other problems that I have (I know, seems like a lot, sorry). We have a very small church 30-50 members, and everyone seems to have their "place." Now this didn't bother me too much when I was first starting out, but now that I've grown, I have a real burning urge to serve in my church. Unfortunately, like I said, everyone already has their place, so my opportunities to serve are small, specifically in the area I feel God gave me a love for. I think this has had a effect on my spiritual life, because I so much want to "do" something, yet am just sitting stagnant. I also feel like there's something MISSING when I go to church (maybe similar couples or young people). I honestly believe that even if all the not responding to my concerns was addressed, I would still feel like something were missing. I have prayed about it and asked God for his guidance, but still seem to be on a fence right now. The people at my church are wonderful and warm (while the assoc. pastor is not, seems to be reserved with us). But I so much want to expand and grow, and help out and play an active role in my church.
I did talk with a woman from my church, our senior pastors wife. Her and I are close, so I let her know. She didn't agree with the politiking thing, but she agrees something is "wrong" with how our associate pastor interacts with the congregation. But no one appears to want to "Rock the boat" because he is taking over, since her husband had a stroke....he's unable to continue doing sermons. She says she hopes I can get past the hurt and continue to go. She's been a great support. I can get past the hurt, he's human. I am still hurting, because I looked up to him and his family because I never had a family that lived like Christians, not a single person who had regular contact with me as a child even went to church. But it is forgiveable for sure. But I don't know if I can just "go through the motions" when I have this thought repeating in my head to get out and serve. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for listening to my problems.

God bless and keep you. Vicissa

 

[Tavita]

The Word of God tells us Vicissa that pastors, apostles, teachers etc are put within the body to build it up and equip it for works of service. This is God's will for each member of His body. You are hearing the call to go do these works of service. Speak to the older pastor personally and share how you feel and see if a position can be created for you. If the will of God to grow and serve is thwarted and nothing is done to help you, then you need to move out with a clear conscience. It's hard not to feel the tugs of loyalty in a situation like this. You feel as if you're betraying the people you've come to love. From personal experience I can say that it was hard at first to leave my church, but I haven't looked back now. He has blessed me immeasureably. And I'm finding new avenues of service opening up before me constantly. You said you have the thought constantly in your head to get out and serve.... you will never be satisfied until you do.


(Eph 4:11) And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

(Eph 4:12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

(Eph 4:13) until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

(Eph 4:14) As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

(Eph 4:15) but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

(Eph 4:16) from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Are there good reasons to "switch" churches ?

There are no good reasons for being a member of a singular club to begin with . The idea of membership/committment/covenant to a specific club is designed to lock you down . All of those in the body of Christ are elligible for associating . Ask the Lord what to do . He is full of good advice .

 

[drstevej]

Vicissa,

From your post there are obviously some major sources of tension between the pastors and their families which you can not solve and which impacts the church, especially a small church. And it doesn't sound like this situation will resolve in the near future.

Why not take a "leave of absence" for a few months and explore another church or two (assuming there are healthy options within driving distance). By healthy options I mean a church where they preach sound doctrine and encourage people in their spiritual growth (which includes serving).

Also, it might be good to find a mature sister in Christ here on CF to be a sounding board as you explore options.

My prayers are with you.

Steve

 

[Lynn73]

Personally, I think people should "rock the boat" if the have legitimate concerns about what's going on and it appears that you do. If you rock the boat by continuing to point out what's bothering you and don't get much in response, I would probably be looking for another church. You have to pray and decide if the problems are serious enough to do this.

 

[JVD]

There are several problems with your church that would make me decide that it isn't a good one.

But before I start with the problems, a couple comments.

*A local church is just a part of God's universal church. It should be a place for you go serve, fellowship and get spiritual help. It seems you are at least getting the fellowship there.
*A local church doesn't own you, and you don't own it. You are part of the body of Christ.

Problem one. It appears this is a pastor run church, rather than an elder run church. I flee from those churches. They have a greater tendency to become corrupt with the facade of spiritualism. And if there is a problem there is always the admonishion to "speak not against God's anointed". All of us are priests, the pastor just has a different gift than you do, he is not more important.

Problem two. There isn't a place for you to serve. I can't believe that a church wouldn't have a place for you to serve. Most good churches are begging for more people to serve. Most churches have as many places to serve as there are members. Someone is holding on to power to not have enough places to serve.

Keep your relationship with the senior pastors wife, but look for another church.

 

[Telrunya]

I can really sympathise with your situation. I am suprised that no one has mentioned what to do if you have a problem with a pastor or elder.

1 Timothy 5:19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

The church not MAKING room for you to serve really concerns me. I agree with most that have posted here that you should probably find a new church, but I would encourage you to try and resolve the problems you have with THIS church first in a biblical manner. I pray that God guides you in this.

 

[analogman]

(Further down in replies I give a little more information)

I've been going to the same church now for 4 years. All has been well for most of the time, but over the last 8 months things have declined. We have two pastors, our senior pastor, who doesn't do sermons anymore for medical reasons, and an associate pastor, who basically does all the speaking. Well, in May, my family ran into some financial problems. I went to the church, because they have a special fund they take once a month to help for situations like mine. I talked to the Sr. Pastors wife, she advised me to get help from the church, to talk to Assoc. Pastor and get it set up. I went to him, crying, upset, scared, and just looking for a helping hand and comfort. I felt like such a idiot, because he just kind of looked at me like, "sorry to hear it" and said he wanted to talk to my husband (he doesn't go and hasn't gone). That was it. In the past another member told me about her concern that there is too much music and too little of a message (usually 45 min. of music 15 min. of message), but I didn't let it get to me and didn't pursue it, because I didn't want to "rock the boat." After that, it seemed our messages, even though short, seemed very political (Comments on supporting the Iraq war, how Islam is violent, how Bush is the right pick, and just general comments on current news). I don't have a problem with these issues being mentioned occasionally, since at times we need to know how the bible pertains to current issues, but it seems like every single Sunday. I don't feel we're called together to worship God, not discuss the evilness of Islam, or who is the man who should be president of the US. These issues bothered me more and more, so I decided to go to the source. I wrote our pastor a letter, and let him know how I felt. I can honestly say it was a letter that wasn't sharply written, and it wasn't all negative. I told him the problems I listed above, and that I felt like maybe he didn't like me, or know how to deal with me or talk to me. After 5 days, I emailed him to make sure he got it. He said he did, he had a family member who was in pain, and perhaps we could discuss it in a few weeks. Nearly 4 weeks later, I haven't heard a word from him. I let him know that I was thinking of leaving the church. I talked to the Pastors wife who I'm close to. She doesn't agree about the politiking part, but she does agree that maybe he isn't as open and he's more reserved.

My question is this? Are these good reasons to switch churches???

Get out as soon as you can!!!Dont put up we these "CONTROL" freaks!!
They all seem to think that they are so much "SUPERIOR" to us "LAYMEN" as they call it. My JESUS has no favorites!!!And that goes for any 5 fold ministry title(pastor,evangelist,teacher,prophet.and apostle) God loves us all the same and can show any body and every body the same thing.Jesus said My sheep know my voice, NOT my 5 fold ministry shall hear My voice!!!He wants every body "EQUAL" and He rains on the Righteous and the wicked.He will judge everyone by there works.He will not treat any body any more special than the
next guy.Read the book of Acts sometimes and see how the Church operated back then.....nothing like nowadays!!! I hoped this helped you and every body else that reads this.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Get out as soon as you can!!!Dont put up we these "CONTROL" freaks!!
They all seem to think that they are so much "SUPERIOR" to us "LAYMEN" as they call it. My JESUS has no favorites!!!And that goes for any 5 fold ministry title(pastor,evangelist,teacher,prophet.and apostle) God loves us all the same and can show any body and every body the same thing.Jesus said My sheep know my voice, NOT my 5 fold ministry shall hear My voice!!!He wants every body "EQUAL" and He rains on the Righteous and the wicked.He will judge everyone by there works.He will not treat any body any more special than the
next guy.Read the book of Acts sometimes and see how the Church operated back then.....nothing like nowadays!!! I hoped this helped you and every body else that reads this.

Good stuff .

 

[Asaph]

Get out as soon as you can!!!Dont put up we these "CONTROL" freaks!!
They all seem to think that they are so much "SUPERIOR" to us "LAYMEN" as they call it. My JESUS has no favorites!!!And that goes for any 5 fold ministry title(pastor,evangelist,teacher,prophet.and apostle) God loves us all the same and can show any body and every body the same thing.Jesus said My sheep know my voice, NOT my 5 fold ministry shall hear My voice!!!He wants every body "EQUAL" and He rains on the Righteous and the wicked.He will judge everyone by there works.He will not treat any body any more special than the
next guy.Read the book of Acts sometimes and see how the Church operated back then.....nothing like nowadays!!! I hoped this helped you and every body else that reads this.

Actually no. It just seemed so angry and legalistic. I see no love in it at all. Except maybe love of self. Does that seem harsh? Is there a difference between what I have said to you, and what you said to her? Is anyone loving this pastor? Is my brother the pastor any less deserving of our love and forgiveness?

Asaph

 

[Stinker]

(Further down in replies I give a little more information)

I've been going to the same church now for 4 years. All has been well for most of the time, but over the last 8 months things have declined. We have two pastors, our senior pastor, who doesn't do sermons anymore for medical reasons, and an associate pastor, who basically does all the speaking. Well, in May, my family ran into some financial problems. I went to the church, because they have a special fund they take once a month to help for situations like mine. I talked to the Sr. Pastors wife, she advised me to get help from the church, to talk to Assoc. Pastor and get it set up. I went to him, crying, upset, scared, and just looking for a helping hand and comfort. I felt like such a idiot, because he just kind of looked at me like, "sorry to hear it" and said he wanted to talk to my husband (he doesn't go and hasn't gone). That was it. In the past another member told me about her concern that there is too much music and too little of a message (usually 45 min. of music 15 min. of message), but I didn't let it get to me and didn't pursue it, because I didn't want to "rock the boat." After that, it seemed our messages, even though short, seemed very political (Comments on supporting the Iraq war, how Islam is violent, how Bush is the right pick, and just general comments on current news). I don't have a problem with these issues being mentioned occasionally, since at times we need to know how the bible pertains to current issues, but it seems like every single Sunday. I don't feel we're called together to worship God, not discuss the evilness of Islam, or who is the man who should be president of the US. These issues bothered me more and more, so I decided to go to the source. I wrote our pastor a letter, and let him know how I felt. I can honestly say it was a letter that wasn't sharply written, and it wasn't all negative. I told him the problems I listed above, and that I felt like maybe he didn't like me, or know how to deal with me or talk to me. After 5 days, I emailed him to make sure he got it. He said he did, he had a family member who was in pain, and perhaps we could discuss it in a few weeks. Nearly 4 weeks later, I haven't heard a word from him. I let him know that I was thinking of leaving the church. I talked to the Pastors wife who I'm close to. She doesn't agree about the politiking part, but she does agree that maybe he isn't as open and he's more reserved.

My question is this? Are these good reasons to switch churches???

After reading the Opening Post, I have to conclude that the problem is not you, but between the Preacher and your non-believing husband. Did the two ever get together and talk?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Actually no. It just seemed so angry and legalistic. I see no love in it at all. Except maybe love of self. Does that seem harsh? Is there a difference between what I have said to you, and what you said to her? Is anyone loving this pastor? Is my brother the pastor any less deserving of our love and forgiveness?

Asaph

I will reply to this to explain my overall agreement with analogman's post .

I agree that the last part was in the realm of legalism depending on where a-man was coming ) . I also agree that parts had the tone of anger but I take it as anger concerning the general system set up in "churchs" and not at this particular pastor . I don't see this as being about love or forgiveness ( or lack thereof ) of this pastor . I see it more about the lack of freedom that the OP has with regards to the Law of staying with a particular club and needing to know if she has good reason to "leave" as though she is a prisoner or there is a requirement that she must belong to a club for life unless she receives special permission . The anxiety of the Law of membership that I see in her post makes me agree with the post of analogman .

I also agree with several individual points made by analogman upon which could be expounded . While I would not have worded the post in the same way ( it would be boring if we all posted the same way ) , I agree with much of the content and I am glad that it was posted .

 

[New_Wineskin]

After reading the Opening Post, I have to conclude that the problem is not you, but between the Preacher and your non-believing husband. Did the two ever get together and talk?

I saw no mention of a non-believing husband .

 

[Vicissa]

Yes, my husband is a believer as well. He just hasn't really gotten into "the church thing" yet. He did go for a little bit, but he quit going for a little bit as he was working through some problems. He is open and would like to go to a new church with me, because he says he felt like he "stuck out like a sore thumb" (he's kind of nervous about people judging him about his appearance (tattoos)) and the political messages really wore on him. We are supposed to go to a church service tonight (Saturday) at a church near us. Saturday night they have a more laid back, jeans and t shirts kind of service for people who are just starting to come to church and feel similar to my husband. It's a large church with lots of opportunities to serve, and it was the pastor of this church who gave me advice and took the time out of his schedule to talk to me about my problem with my church (his advice was to talk to the pastor about it, let him know my concerns, and only after that decide if I was going to leave, because he was sure they would hate to see me leave). So just wanted to clear up that my hubby is a believer, just not comfortable in a church setting.

 

[StevenL]

God is shaking up the religious world and is calling His Sheep out of this wicked, unscriptural "church" scene. Don't let church folks guilt trip you any further to keep you in this bondage. Find some believers who love the Truth, read the letters to the assemblies, and do what is written there. You are under no obligation to go to religious clubs that are dominated by sick, unspiritual "pastors" who will not even do the Word themselves. As already suggested, read in Acts and in the letters how the assemblies are supposed to be organized and what they are to do. You'll find that todays "churches" are not on the foundation of the apostles and prophets at all. If fact, avoid any group of people in which only ONE person does the speaking. 1 Corinthians 14:29. That's dangerous, unscriptural and cultish. It is very difficult to get out from under the brainwashing of "church" organizations. There are particular spirits in charge of that very thing. They have slowly but very effectively down through the years transformed the "church" into a dead man-made organization with a class system called "clergy" and "laity." That is an abomination to God. Get out of it quickly while the Lord is providing an opportunity for you. I pray for the Lord to give you discernment in HIS Spirit.