So you can post all the scriptures you can find about salvation and connect with the church today but there is none that says they will be in the tribulation and that the gospel can only come from the church today.
Then what is this?
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
You know a person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under Grace...
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5. Actually Paul said in Romans that it was because of Israel's rejection that the gentile were able to be grafted in and in turn the gentile believers and the believing jews such as the apostles, Paul and others in the new testament church would make the nation of Israel jealous for God for the time they are on this earth.
6. Because Israel rejected the KOH and the KOG message, Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:1-2 the judgement which happened in 70 A.D. They did not have a second chance to thwart that before 70 A.D. because the church was predestined to be in place at this time until right before the tribulation. Jesus didn't even know when the KOH would appear so there was no purpose to preach this message except to keep it in the minds of jews that God had not forgotten them and one day they would fulfill it. Paul was a jew and he said God had not forgotten them.
All of Israel did not reject Christ. You are making it sound like all of the Israelite branches were broken off of the Olive Tree.
The Gentile branches of the wild Olive Tree were grafted in among the believing Israelite branches like Paul (Romans 11:1), who remained in the tree. It was only the Israelite branches that rejected Christ that were broken off of the Olive Tree. The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Blood Covenant Church. In Romans chapter 11 Paul makes it clear that salvation only comes from being grafted into the Olive Tree. The branches broken off wither and die with out the nourishment of the tree. They must be grafted back into the tree for eternal life.
The "covenant" in Romans 11:27 is the New Blood Covenant of Christ, "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6. It is not waiting on a future fulfillment.
The Church of Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan of salvation. No one will come to salvation outside of the Church before the Second Coming of Christ.
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The church is nowhere mentioned in the tribulation.
Really...
The capital "C" Church as we use the term today, is not found at all in the entire Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found in the Book of Revelation.
The word "saints" is used throughout the Book of Revelation.
The text below shows the word "saints" describes Christians.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
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The so-called rapture (hate that unbiblical word) occurs at the last (7th) trump in Revelation 11:15. To be the last trump, there has to be more than one. Also, What other trum(pet) could it be? There is no scripture that indicates a pre-trib rapture. A pre-trib rapture is just wishful thinking. I don't know why, though, since the rapture in 1 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians, etc., has nothing to do with anybody living now, or during the last 1900+ years.
The way it's written, it seems that Paul knew that the people would know what the "last trump" was without explaining it. Legend (probably Catholic) has it that John was banished to Patmos in 96AD. In Revelation 1:10, John says he was there IN THE SPIRIT, not necessarily there physically, on the Lord's Day (certainly not Sunday). It's the Day of the Lord, which is well described in Zephaniah 1:14-16. I think this occurred in 43 AD, 14 years after Paul discussed John (certainly not himself) in 2 Corinthians 12:2-5. In other words, most everybody had probably read Revelation and knew what the last trump was.
The wife of Rev 19:7 is not the Church the Body of Christ. The wife of Rev.19:7 is shown and explained in Rev 21:9-10. Check it out.Really...
The capital "C" Church as we use the term today, is not found at all in the entire Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found in the Book of Revelation.
The word "saints" is used throughout the Book of Revelation.
The text below shows the word "saints" describes Christians.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
.
The wife of Rev 19:7 is not the Church the Body of Christ. The wife of Rev.19:7 is shown and explained in Rev 21:9-10. Check it out.
The wife of Rev 19:7 is not the Church the Body of Christ. The wife of Rev.19:7 is shown and explained in Rev 21:9-10. Check it out.
Jerry,
I read the other day that there were 30,000 Christian denominations worldwide. I don't know if there are that many but if you allow spin-offs of spin-offs of spin-offs, there are a lot. Plus, every person has their own ideas about some things. The reason for this great variety of mindsets is differences in Bible interpretation. The Bible is the most difficult book in existence, bar none. Except for the very basic things, no one's interpretation, including yours, mine, Hagin's, or Copeland's can be considered to be more than a theory. This is a good reason to stay out of the churches (synagogues) and into the Bible. The best any of us can do is spend 1000's of hours studying the Bible and formulate a "best bet" as to what it's all about.
Of course, there are good theories, bad theories, mature theories, and infantile theories.
I see you are Pentecostal. My experience (2 years, every Sunday, wide variety of charismatic churches in Houston) with Pentecostal doctrine is that, although it is very Christ-centered (which is good), it fails in most other areas, especially the totally non-existent gifts that they FORCE to give the illusion of truth. These Jewish gifts were for another time, another place, and a different group of people. I've always felt that many people stay in the charismatic churches because of the intense "rush" they get, especially during the droning, repetitious, hypnotic music that is played. I must admit that the "rush" really felt good and probably kept my attendance up for awhile, although I agreed with hardly anything the preacher said. This "rush" felt identical to what I felt during my old pagan days when I was practicing Transcendental Meditation twice a day and my mantra was the name of a Hindu god, as I found out later.
Since you don't 100% "know" most anything you think you know, you might slack off about telling everybody they are incorrect. Since God is not a liar and is not the author of confusion, there can be only one true Biblical answer for each question you could possibly ask. Therefore, the odds are that you are the one who is incorrect in many cases.
I'll stick with everything I said earlier about the "rapture." My main point was that the Jewish rapture in Cor, Thess, etc., has nothing to do with anyone today, so why worry about it. Our "rapture" will be our "appearing with Jesus Christ in Glory, where Glory is defined as being above all heavens (see Psalms 8:1), as in Colossians 3:4,
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."
Chronologically, our "appearing" in Glory will probably be before the "rapture" of Cor and Thess.
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