Challenge

[dysert]

I'm just going based of what the Bible says.

The bible describes a flat, stationary earth, surrounded by a firmament.

What verses describe a flat, stationary earth, surrounded by a firmament?

 

[Ana the Ist]

A flat Earth is a special brand of nuttiness, which embarrasses even the majority of fundamentalists.

And yet...there it is...

What's been done to this young man should be a crime. Imagine all that has to be undone just so he can understand his reality in a way that doesn't require massive conspiracies against him? Imagine what that kind of world must be like...

 

[dysert]

He's 19.

Didn't you know everything at 19?

Don't give all 19-year-olds a bad name. I was 19 once. I didn't know everything, but at least I knew that much.

This is ridiculous.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Don't give all 19-year-olds a bad name. I was 19 once. I didn't know everything, but at least I knew that much.

This is ridiculous.

Lol it was my attempt at humor. I think back to what I thought at 19 and I'm embarrassed.

 

[Douggg]

You probably think man and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time too...yes?

Hey, now that's a good question. I am not totally sure. We do know that there were dinosaurs, as a given, right?

There are some arguments, yes, with some evidence presented as fossilized footprint of a man inside of a dinosaur foot print.
I don't know. What I personally think is, because of the opening verses in Genesis, that there was a previous edition of this present world, before this currently world came about which we live. In the previous edition of earth, which I think the rebellious angels had tampered with the dna of the original creatures, some of which became the vicious dinosaurs - T-Rex, etc. Which I personally don't think God would have created those violent creatures as such, and ended up destroying that world. Albeit, it was the same planet, but due to the destruction became without form.

In Genesis, in what I think is an account of the creation of this current world - after that previous world was destroyed - is
that there was an earth but, imo, the mountains, seas, etc, of that previous edition of this same earth, would have been destroyed along with the destruction of the dinosaurs.... explaining the "without form, and void" .....for your comtemplation. Which would also explain the fossilized dinosaur bones in the earth's rocks, but no accounts of T-Rex chewing people up in man's history.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. ...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Hey, now that's a good question. I am not totally sure. We do know that there were dinosaurs, as a given, right?

There are some arguments, yes, with some evidence presented as fossilized footprint of a man inside of a dinosaur foot print.
I don't know. What I personally think is, because of the opening verses in Genesis, that there was a previous edition of this present world, before this currently world came about which we live. In the previous edition of earth, which I think the rebellious angels had tampered with the dna of the original creatures, some of which became the vicious dinosaurs - T-Rex, etc. Which I personally don't think God would have created those violent creatures as such, and ended up destroying that world. Albeit, it was the same planet, but due to the destruction became without form.

In Genesis, in what I think is an account of the creation of this current world - after that previous world was destroyed - is
that there was an earth but, imo, the mountains, seas, etc, of that previous edition of earth, would have been destroyed along with the destruction of the dinosaurs.... explaining the "without form, and void" .....for your comtemplation.

That's nice.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Can't quite tell if trolling or...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Hey, now that's a good question. I am not totally sure. We do know that there were dinosaurs, as a given, right?

There are some arguments, yes, with some evidence presented as fossilized footprint of a man inside of a dinosaur foot print.
I don't know. What I personally think is, because of the opening verses in Genesis, that there was a previous edition of this present world, before this currently world came about which we live. In the previous edition of earth, which I think the rebellious angels had tampered with the dna of the original creatures, some of which became the vicious dinosaurs - T-Rex, etc. Which I personally don't think God would have created those violent creatures as such, and ended up destroying that world. Albeit, it was the same planet, but due to the destruction became without form.

In Genesis, in what I think is an account of the creation of this current world - after that previous world was destroyed - is
that there was an earth but, imo, the mountains, seas, etc, of that previous edition of this same earth, would have been destroyed along with the destruction of the dinosaurs.... explaining the "without form, and void" .....for your comtemplation. Which would also explain the fossilized dinosaur bones in the earth's rocks, but no accounts of T-Rex chewing people up in man's history.

Lemme ask you something Douggg, and I mean this as a serious question....

Let's imagine for a moment that I had a time machine that could take us back in time....

You and I travel back to the beginning of the earth and we watch it all happen...and Genesis is totally wrong. It all happens basically just how science describes it happening...

Would you think you were wrong to believe in the Genesis account? Or would you think something else...like Satan created the time machine and changed history or made you think you were seeing something untrue....or some such belief?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Can't quite tell if trolling or...

I don't think it is...I've seen what evangelicals do to their children. It's legal, since you're allowed to teach your children whatever you like in this nation....but it looks monstrous to me.

 

[florida2]

In his case...Yea.

He's living in denial. He's so heavily indoctrinated, he's hopeless.

These are things that need addressed if you really want to help him learn.

I don't think anyone is hopeless. I used to be a YEC but it was through reading sensible explanations and rational ideas that I changed my mind.

 

[Douggg]

Lemme ask you something Douggg, and I mean this as a serious question....

Let's imagine for a moment that I had a time machine that could take us back in time....

You and I travel back to the beginning of the earth and we watch it all happen...and Genesis is totally wrong. It all happens basically just how science describes it happening...

Would you think you were wrong to believe in the Genesis account? Or would you think something else...like Satan created the time machine and changed history or made you think you were seeing something untrue....or some such belief?

Well, of course. But the reverse of that scenario is also true, isn't it?

What I can't do is go back in that time machine. What I can do is look at the end times prophecies, and get a picture from those that correspond to the present observable world, in terms of nations specifically identified, alignments of those nations, as validation that other parts of the bible, such as Genesis is correct - albeit I don't read a specific explanation of the dinosaurs, and must speculate on the dinosaurs from what is there.

It's not going to be enough to convince, and I am not pressuring you to be convinced.... as personally I don't know of another way other than getting into the bible prophecies end times with both feet - which I think that would be difficult, but not impossible, for you to motivate yourself to do so, coming from the atheist position. Especially since there is enough out there to confuse anyone, to who's actually right, all the TV and book selling commentators can turn a lot of people off .... we can agree on that, can't we?

The only argument I can think of to make an effort of sorts, is that you owe it to yourself to investigate.

What's your general overall view regarding the end times talk ? And ideas of your own?

I am really out of place in this forum. I usually hang out in the eschatology forum.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think anyone is hopeless. I used to be a YEC but it was through reading sensible explanations and rational ideas that I changed my mind.

Perhaps he isn't hopeless...but I don't think we can reach him. He has to want to know truth.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, of course. But the reverse of that scenario is also true, isn't it?

What I can't do is go back in that time machine. What I can do is look at the end times prophecies, and get a picture from those that correspond to the present observable world, in terms of nations specifically identified, alignments of those nations, as validation that other parts of the bible, such as Genesis is correct - albeit I don't read a specific explanation of the dinosaurs, and must speculate on the dinosaurs from what is there.

It's not going to be enough to convince, and I am not pressuring you to be convinced.... as personally I don't know of another way other than getting into the bible prophecies end times with both feet - which I think that would be difficult, but not impossible, for you to motivate yourself to do so, coming from the atheist position. Especially since there is enough out ther to confuse anyone, to who's actually right, all the TV and book selling commentators can turn a lot of people off .... we can agree on that, can't we?

The only argument I can think of to make an effort of sorts, is that you owe it to yourself to investigate.

What's you general overall view regarding the end times talk ? And ideas of your own?

I am really out of place in this forum. I usually hang out in the eschatology forum.

If there's an end to humanity....we'll do it to ourselves. I don't believe anything regarding any prophecy.

So, you're saying you would stop believing in the Genesis account if we went through the little scenario I described? It may not seem important to you....but it is, and I'll explain why once you answer.

 

[Douggg]

If there's an end to humanity....we'll do it to ourselves. I don't believe anything regarding any prophecy.

So, you're saying you would stop believing in the Genesis account if we went through the little scenario I described? It may not seem important to you....but it is, and I'll explain why once you answer.

I think I have responded to that scenario. Please continue with your exercise.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think I have responded to that scenario. Please continue with your exercise.

You said, "Well of course".

I don't know if you meant, "Well of course I would stop believing in the Genesis account."

Or...

"Well of course I would think it was some trickery of Satan."

You'll need to clarify before I can continue.

 

[Douggg]

You said, "Well of course".

I don't know if you meant, "Well of course I would stop believing in the Genesis account."

Or...

"Well of course I would think it was some trickery of Satan."

You'll need to clarify before I can continue.

Well, of course, it would alter my view in some way.

 

[MaxR1996]

Still Not 1 PHOTO of the earth.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You're the one indoctrinated, through education

Why, yes... education is sooooo evil.
Education must be stopped!

/end-sarcasm

 

[Oafman]

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, of course, it would alter my view in some way.

Lol you're being ambiguous when I'm asking you for clarity. I want to know if you'd abandon your belief in genesis. Is that so hard to say? In the face of absolute proof that you're wrong...you'd no longer believe in genesis?

Maybe now you kind of see the point I'm making...

If absolute proof, seeing with your own eyes, isn't enough to convince you that you're wrong...what do we possibly have to discuss? What evidence could I present you now that you wouldn't simply deny?

For the record, I have no problem admitting that if I were to travel back with you, and watch the Genesis account happening as described in the bible....I'd abandon my beliefs immediately.