Cessationism - Part 16

[Saint Steven]

I suppose I would also pray for the dead if a person close to the deceased asked me to.
You can't guarantee anything, but you can try. I would honor their faith in what God can do with assistance. It might work, who knows? Even a ten percent success rate would be well worth it in my book. lol

 

[2tim_215]

You know I heared of churches which pray after every dead and then if he does not rise they blame themselves for lack of faith just like they blame themselves for not being able to heal wound / restore somebody's arm or leg .

That's a false teaching. Has it ever worked for them?

 

[Chinchilla]

That's a false teaching. Has it ever worked for them?

No ;p

Imagine somebody asking what's your hobby ? And you say casting out demons and drinking snake poison . If it worked on our demand more people would be doing such things regularly not as good deed but just because it sounds fun .

 

[2tim_215]

No ;p

Imagine somebody asking what's your hobby ? And you say casting out demons and drinking snake poison . If it worked on our demand more people would be doing such things regularly not as good deed but just because it sounds fun .

Interesting thing said by Jesus (one that always perplexed me which I refer to the "Lord, Lord crowd":
Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice that He doesn't mention raising the dead here. This kind of scares me since I've never done any of the above.

 

[Chinchilla]

Interesting thing said by Jesus (one that always perplexed me which I refer to the "Lord, Lord crowd":
Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice that He doesn't mention raising the dead here. This kind of scares me since I've never done any of the above.

Well Judas could be in that crowd , Jesus gave them ( all 12) ability to cast out demons we don't know if he did but for sure he worked iniquity . He drank the damnation to himself because he did not believe that Jesus was Messiah .

 

[2tim_215]

Well Judas could be in that crowd , Jesus gave them ( all 12) ability to cast out demons we don't know if he did but for sure he worked iniquity . He drank the damnation to himself because he did not believe that Jesus was Messiah .

I agree with you about Judas. However, when reading that verse, it sounds like Jesus is referring to more than one person. And I doubt if Judas is asking Lord, Lord. although maybe you're right. Regardless, it's pretty scary.

 

[Chinchilla]

I agree with you about Judas. However, when reading that verse, it sounds like Jesus is referring to more than one person. And I doubt if Judas is asking Lord, Lord. although maybe you're right. Regardless, it's pretty scary.

Pretty scary considering that these people
1) Knew the name of God
2) Worked miracles
3) Prophecy
and still did not make it throught .

Jesus said that he never knew them , not even for a minute when they prophecy in his name . These could be priests / pastors who spend thier lifes working in ministry yet Jesus never knew them so they were mistaken about something .

 

[2tim_215]

Pretty scary considering that these people
1) Knew the name of God
2) Worked miracles
3) Prophecy
and still did not make it throught .

Jesus said that he never knew them , not even for a minute when they prophecy in his name . These could be priests / pastors who spend thier lifes working in ministry yet Jesus never knew them so they were mistaken about something .

Yeah, that really bothers me, Jesus, being God in the flesh, how could He not know someone? It would make more sense to me if He said "you never knew me", not " never knew you". I'm a firm believer in the King James Bible, 100% but this almost seems like it may be a mis-translation. I really don't know.

 

[Chinchilla]

Yeah, that really bothers me, Jesus, being God in the flesh, how could He not know someone? It would make more sense to me if He said "you never knew me", not " never knew you". I'm a firm believer in the King James Bible, 100% but this almost seems like it may be a mis-translation. I don't know.

He is talking about people who knew who Jesus was but did not understand the atonement just like me before I was born again untill 22 years old .

If you are born again then your name is written in the Lamb's book of life .

 

[2tim_215]

He is talking about people who knew who Jesus was but did not understand the atonement just like me before I was born again untill 22 years old .

But didn't Jesus know you before you were born again? Not trying to be argumentative, this is just one that I can't quite figure out yet. Not sure who they are but certainly wouldn't want to be one of them.

 

[Chinchilla]

But didn't Jesus know you before you were born again? Not trying to be argumentative, this is just one that I can't quite figure out yet. Not sure who they are but certainly wouldn't want to be one of them.

He knew only these which Father gave him meaning only these which would believe in him . I'm not calvinist just to clear things .


John 17:9-19 King James Version (KJV)
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


If you are sealed with Holy Spirit Jesus knows you , if not then he does not.
Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[2tim_215]

He knew only these which Father gave him meaning only these which would believe in him . I'm not calvinist just to clear things .


John 17:9-19 King James Version (KJV)
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


If you are sealed with Holy Spirit Jesus knows you , if not then he does not.
Ephesians 1:13-14

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
I guess that would make sense, they'd have to have believed but maybe didn't in spite of doing God's works. Strange, but that's the best explanation I've heard.

 

[Saint Steven]

Pretty scary considering that these people
1) Knew the name of God
2) Worked miracles
3) Prophecy
and still did not make it throught .

Jesus said that he never knew them , not even for a minute when they prophecy in his name . These could be priests / pastors who spend thier lifes working in ministry yet Jesus never knew them so they were mistaken about something .

Yup. They didn't have a personal relationship with Christ. He never knew them.