Certifications

[awitch]

Looks like we have a few professionals here, so I wanted to ask, in your opinion, how useful are certifications? (CCNA, Netowrk+, MSCE etc).

As an employee, did getting the cert help or do you learn most of the product through experience? As an employer, how much weight does having a cert have when making a hiring decision?

 

[bsd31]

It depends on who is doing the hiring. When IT people are allowed to make the decisions I've never seen or heard of them asking about certifications, but if HR is doing the hiring that and a college degree is all they know. Unfortunately in most places HR does the hiring.

As far as certifications for the sake of knowledge that again depends. I know plenty of people with tons of certs but who don't really know much. They're really good at brain dumps but it's all paper knowledge and very little working knowledge. It's kind of like going to college. When you first get out you have a lot of theory but not so much application in whatever your major is. Of course that's not across the board. There are those with certs (and college) who really got their hands dirty during the learning process and are immediately valuable to their field.

In short if you have no experience getting a couple of certifications won't hurt your career. It will display your willingness to better yourself to potential employers. On the other hand if you have a few years in the industry with or without certs you're expected to know your stuff.

 

[awitch]

I have almost 15 years in the field but my current employer wants all engineers to be actively pursuing a cert (on our own time, but at least we get reimbursed for expenses if we pass).

I always felt they were more of a marketing/money making thing than proof of competency.

 

[Sketcher]

Taking the classes and reviewing the material to get the cert definitely helped me learn a lot. And since the most basic of certs won't put anyone in demand, I needed to get other certs, and it took a while, but I think the total number of certs - but most importantly, what I learned in getting the certs - helped me get the job I have. Overall, they're looking for a body of knowledge and taking classes for certs helps you with that. The certs just provide some sort of official evidence that you have knowledge in X, Y, and Z. And if you can get them fast with no previous background, that helps let them know that you are a very fast learner.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Looks like we have a few professionals here, so I wanted to ask, in your opinion, how useful are certifications? (CCNA, Netowrk+, MSCE etc).

As an employee, did getting the cert help or do you learn most of the product through experience? As an employer, how much weight does having a cert have when making a hiring decision?

Sure, certs helped me through a couple of doors but that because the idiot hiring me thought they were more important than the experience I have. The Linux/UNIX world is different, usually experience counts more.

The thing about employers of IT service companies wanting their staff certified (especially M$ certs) is that they can get "partnership" status if they have say two or more MCSE/MCITP's working for them. Make sure you let your boss know that if you pass exams you will be looking for a pay rise due to your "increased marketability"...

Personally I think the whole certification game is for idiot IT managers that want paper over experience. Also, the likes of Cisco, M$ etc... make an awful lot of money through it.

Do I speak from experience? MCSE x4, CCNA, Novell etc...

The only one I would want to do now is LPIC but that would be more of a challenge to myself than anything else.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Sure, certs helped me through a couple of doors but that because the idiot hiring me thought they were more important than the experience I have. The Linux/UNIX world is different, usually experience counts more.

The thing about employers of IT service companies wanting their staff certified (especially M$ certs) is that they can get "partnership" status if they have say two or more MCSE/MCITP's working for them. Make sure you let your boss know that if you pass exams you will be looking for a pay rise due to your "increased marketability"...

Personally I think the whole certification game is for idiot IT managers that want paper over experience. Also, the likes of Cisco, M$ etc... make an awful lot of money through it.

Do I speak from experience? MCSE x4, CCNA, Novell etc...

The only one I would want to do now is LPIC but that would be more of a challenge to myself than anything else.

I basically feel the same. My A+ helped me get my current job (still there nine years later!) and the people hiring me weren't all that technical.

The most competent people I've known in the IT field had no IT degrees (at least not at first) or certs.

 

[bsd31]

I have almost 15 years in the field but my current employer wants all engineers to be actively pursuing a cert (on our own time, but at least we get reimbursed for expenses if we pass).

I always felt they were more of a marketing/money making thing than proof of competency.

I see.

Having one won't hurt you. You're correct it is, in many IT professionals opinions, just marketing and not proof of competency. But for whatever reason management loves to see it on a resume. And with the economy what it is now days I'd do everything possible to get myself that extra paperwork "just in case"

 

[MPaul]

Just from a general business point of view, I think it works like this --

Computer experts are evaluated on how they can make computers run. People who hire computer experts are evaluated on how well they choose employees. If an employee has a certification and does not work out that well in competency, the person who hired him is covered -- response, "he was professionally certified."

However, having a certification demonstrates an attitude -- it is more likely that person is a professional and is dedicated to learning all necessary competencies. People without certifications can have weaknesses in training that they do not even know about.

Bottom line, without other direct, irrefutable, uncontroverted evidence of competency (mainly consisting of documented and well established and verified experience), stick with a person with certification. It is the safe bet.

 

[MacGig]

got my A+ and a Mac cert hoping to land an entry level IT job. never happened. all I kept hearing was "you have no experience". My suggestion would be to work on getting experience somehow, even if you have to work for free for a period of time...

 

[awitch]

got my A+ and a Mac cert hoping to land an entry level IT job. never happened. all I kept hearing was "you have no experience". My suggestion would be to work on getting experience somehow, even if you have to work for free for a period of time...

Looks like I'm going for a Mac cert since we have a shortage of engineers familiar with them. What's your opinion of the ACST for a Windows guy who has to integrate and troubleshoot Macs?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

got my A+ and a Mac cert hoping to land an entry level IT job. never happened. all I kept hearing was "you have no experience". My suggestion would be to work on getting experience somehow, even if you have to work for free for a period of time...

Exactly. I was very fortunate to have gotten lots of IT experience in college so when I got my A+ it was actually relevant.

If you look at the beginning sections of a lot of study guides for certs, they recommend some sort of background/experience in the area.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

It's hard to get the job without the experience and vice versa but, I personally see little value in certs these days as there are so many that do the exams armed with the answers to most, if not all the questions they will be asked. Thankfully not everyone is like this but, it really devalues the cert for the genuine ones out there with the skills etc... Having certs does show an employer that you have got off your backside to attempt to better yourself though but then again if you're young, a few university papers or a degree behind you will show that too.

The IT industry is such that anyone who boasts with certs that were obtained in a dishonest fashion will be soon out of a job.