Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

Manasseh_ said:

you thought wrong , I don't agree

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Ronald said:

OK, we're done here, no need to waste anymore time!

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Praise the Lord!

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Douggg said:

What is your proof?

Doug

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1. All the writers of the first three and a half centuries agreed John’s exile was at the latter part of the reign of Domitian, the last of 12 Caesars, therefore Revelation was written in 95 or 96 AD. No writer in the first three and a half centuries suggested any other date.
2. It would not make much sense John wrote Revelation before 70 AD when nobody could get their hands on it to be warned about these things to come while he was imprisoned for thirty years.
3. If it was applied strictly to Nero’s time Revelation has no spiritual value for us in the church age, events leading up to the return of Christ and the future beyond so it is not already fulfilled.
4. The Antichrist cannot be a Teitan (a "latin man") even though equaling 666, for the Antichrist was never called such by early Christian writers, and surely John living so close to Latin times would have said something. Irenaeus says, therefore, the Antichrist will arrive in some distant era beyond his own time.
5. Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp who himself was one of John’s pupils, so he was in a better position to know when he stated that the Antichrist would not be Teitan.
6. Tertullian said Domitian was cruel like Nero, but often ceased from his attempts at killing Christians. Banishment as with John was the more likely avenue, whereas Nero would just put you to death. So it is highly unlikely Nero banished John.
7. Clement of Alexandria speaks of a "tyrant" after whose death John returns from exile. John did not return from Patmos a few years after Nero's death (68 AD), for if he had then he wouldn't have written Revelation before but most likely after 70 AD. Since Domitian died 96 AD, that would be when John was released or thereabouts, writing down all that he saw and heard.
8. Eusebius in three passages states the banishment of John took place in reign of Domitian and that the time of John’s revelation was in the fourteenth year reign of Domitian (95 AD).
9. Victorinus of Petau, the earliest extant writer on the apocalypse, said John revealed his revelation when he was released from Patmos at 95 AD or thereabouts. He explained the words: "prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings" (Rev. 10.11).
10. Victorinus, martyred in 303 AD, said Domitian was the sixth king reigning during when the apocalypse was written, who was not the seventh or eighth king talked about in Revelations 17.11.
11. The first 5 Caesars who died horrific deaths, not by natural causes, were Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero. Augustus died of natural causes, the Year of the Four Emperors were short-lived. Vespian and Titus died of natural causes. Then comes Domitian the twelfth Caesar. "Five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come" (18.10). "The beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" (17.11). "Is not" refers to Nero at the time of John's writing since Nero had already died so he is not the sixth ("one is"); but Nero will come again as the Antichrist, taking the body of the seventh (the seventh appears for only short while). Of all the names of Caesars only Nero's name adds up to 666.
12. Jerome from the 4th century-somewhat later-said that the revelation John received was written down at Patmos and was written in the fourteenth year of Domitian's reign (95 AD) and was the second Caesar who persecuted Christians, Nero obviously being the first. Whoever is the first to throw the first stone is considered to be the most evil. Nero was the epitome of evil.
13. This harmony was ruined by Epiphanius of Salamis in the late 4th century whose testimony is worthless plus it is incredible. He was careless and an inaccurate ancient writer. Jesus died at the age of 37 1/2 April 3, 33 AD (Julian)*. He actually wrote that John at the age of 90 was released into the reign of Claudius. Claudius was assassinated in 54 AD. If this is true and assuming Jesus ministered for three years then John would had to have been at least 66 years old (90-(54-30)) when called to be an Apostle in 30 AD and 34 years older than Jesus.
14. Many other authors are also in favor of the Domitian date, but the evidence presented above is substantial.

1. The state of the seven churches in Revelation 2 & 3 would have required development over 20 or 30 years far beyond the 5 or 6 years allowed by the Neronic date and condition of the new churches in Paul’s time.
2. It is evident persecution was throughout Asia Minor at the time. There was at least one martyr in Pergamum, whereas in Nero’s time it does not extend beyond immediate neighborhood of Rome.
3. Smyrna was about to undergo the trial of her faith even to that of death, and there was the intense martyrdom during the Smyrna church period in the second century.
4. The Neronic persecution would not have produced a banishment of John, but capital punishment. We are told in Scripture John was banished not executed.
5. "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality" (Rev. 2.14). Ballamites had time to establish themselves in Pergamum.
6. Jezebel had not only risen to influence in Thyatira, but time for repentance had also been given to her (according to Rev. 2.20,21). "...I gave her time to repent...." (v.21).
7. Revelations is definitely a book of prophecy (see 1.3, 22.7,18,19) about end-times for us to be aware of and prepare for. A day with the Lord is like a thousand years, so only two days passed since Christ. "Shortly come to pass" simply means not to be delayed, yet we are just too neglectful and procrastinating about these things. Some are so impatient they change from the premillennial (earliest view was chiliast or dispensational) to the preterist, amillennialist or postmillennialist views then proudly claim Jesus won't return in the next 50 or even 100 years when He very well could. They will not be ready and likely were never saved. How is that being watchful? As long as this evil generation persists (Matt. 24.34) so will He be delayed. This is an application of the exponential progression of conscience because Jesus wants to return to improved conditions or at least some progress. These things "must occur" (v.6) not subject to any change, so there are things that will come to pass before He returns.
8. The Bible tells us Jesus will return for the sake of the elect, so while the world is about to destroy itself, the elect stand strong. That does not play well for the Preterists and Postmillennialists since they say things just keep getting better and better so no need for concern about a Great Tribulation or a coming Antichrist and his deception. Surely, they are already deceived by the people of the prince that is to come. I think these well off folks should come down from their high perch and spend some time in the slums of the world, overflowing prisons, and acclimate themselves with the countless evils this world has to offer to appreciate Satan is the god of this world. With thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, I think they are taking this evil generation too lightly. After all don't they say Satan is in the pit right now? How can he be in the pit of he is still the god of this world? Does it really sound like Satan is in the pit right now with over 10,000 people dying per day due to starvation, over 50,000 dying per day unnecessarily and over 200,000,000 deaths due to war in the 20th century alone? Historicism is a view introduced by the Roman Church and the Calvinist Augustine to threaten their adherents with obedience to them or come under damnation.
9. The Rationalistic and Romanistic view of Preterism does not round out the concluding portion of God’s word concerning future events like Genesis does for us about beginnings. We are left empty handed about end-times if we follow after historicists.
10. Revelation is neither a book of allegorical history nor already fulfilled, for who can say in history when 1/3 of the people of the earth died (Rev. 9.18) in the last two trumpets or woes (after 5 months of the 1st woe, leaving 13 months of the 2nd woe and 24 months for the 3rd woe)? When did this occur around 70 AD? And when did it occur the 200 million fighting units congregated in the middle east (v.16) over oil?
11. Preterism, Partial Preterism, Postmillennial and Amillennial adherents will surely go to Hell according Rev. 22.18,19 and for their anti-Semitic beliefs of Systematic Replacement Theology. They reject the Jesus who will return to reign for 1000 years on earth with His overcomer believers. Is Jesus reigning with an iron rod right now? Of course not.
12. Are the nations no longer deceived (see Rev. 20.3)? Of course not. We still hear of wars and rumors of wars. Satan is the god of this world. Satan is only immobilized because Christians have died on the cross with Christ in the first Seal where we see the Rider on the white horse who has a bow without an arrow that was shot because Satan has been given a deadly wound. If your flesh, your old man, has died with Christ on the cross what can Satan do? He can not operate in dead flesh. Jesus brought us to sure death with Him on the cross. Yet Satan still freely roams 2nd heaven to continue to deceive the nations.
13. Are the overcomers, the first resurrection, reigning today (Rev. 20.4)? Absolutely not! Where are the the faithful in executive positions such as president, prime minister, governor, mayor and so forth as a David or Solomon? Will Jesus spare Preterists the rod of His wrath? Not unless I am a monkey's uncle.
14. Do you feel dejected because Jesus didn't return last year? Don't be. Jesus said to live as though He could return at any moment. This is the life that shall be rewarded. Do not invent another eschatology because of your impatience or failed predictions. Such souls are showing they were never born-again to begin with because they could not remain steadfast in the faith that they allegedly were in. It would have been better they had never known about Christ considering the pitiful state they are in now (2 Pet. 2.21).
15. Rationalistic schemes to take away this fearful book serving as one of the keenest of the swords of God’s Spirit have long since been defeated.
16. Who is the 8th in Revelation 17.10-11? The five Caesars have fallen (v.10). Domitian was the sixth. The seventh is a person who is to be the forerunner to the eighth (v.11), and the eighth is a living soul who is one of the five which is resurrected Nero, the Antichrist (v.11). Because he already died once and we are appointed once to do die, he can't be killed in the Tribulation. He is the first person who is thrown into Hell (v.11). We can't switch back and forth from persons to nations in the analysis of who these 8 figures are.
17. The world is not in a desperate situation to sell their goods to Israel in one interpretation by a historicist. The truth is though only United States or Europe qualify with the highest GDP in the world (a combined 30 trillion). The GDP of the EU is 16 trillion and the US 14 trillion (2009). Rome, the 7 hilled city, is the location of the Parliament of the European Union. As the US dollar collapses ship merchants will no longer be able to sell their goods to America which is self-evident even before the Tribulation. 'Political Rome' (Rev. 18) which is the European Union sets up 10 kings on the 7 hilled city. Rome will no longer be able to buy the goods of the world (v.11) because of the greatest war the world has ever seen. The Vatican and Rome will burn with fire (Rev. 17.16,18; 18.18). In the first half of the Tribulation religious Rome is destroyed (Rev. 17). In the 2nd half of the Tribulation political Rome is destroyed (Rev. 18). The Antichrist overtakes three of those horns and consolidates them: Greece, Italy and Spain have massive depbt/GDP ratios. US has 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities and its debt/GDP ratio is even worse. Spain, Italy and Greece make up just a small fraction of the overall EU GDP. If the horns are the financial elite then the seven horns (reduced from 10) would manage the implementation of the mark of the beast over the 7 regions (heads) of the world.
18. The prophecy Israel would become a nation has been fulfilled (Matt. 24.32-33). It is yet to be fulfilled Israel's land extends to the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18) and their Messiah the Son of Man Jesus steps down on the mount of olives (Zech. 14.4). Preterists, Postmillennialists and Amillennialists don't apply very well all the verses that talk about Israel becoming a nation again shortly before the return of Christ. They prefer for Rome or some other location, I suppose, to be the center-certainly not Jerusalem-since they hold to replacement theology and anti-Semitic rhetoric.
19. There is a Temple on Earth when Jesus reigns in Person. He returns just as He left (Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7). He does not return to only rapture us, but to reign with His overcomers (Jude 14,15; Rev. 20.4-6). The overcomers make up about 1/7th of those who are saved since Abel, typified by the Philadelphia church--one of the seven churches that had "overcometh" so all they needed to do was keep what they had. The millennial kingdom, time of recompense and peace when the nations are no longer deceived (v.3), is the transitionary period with Jesus' very presence in Person from the dispensation of grace to eternity future in the New City and New Earth.
20. What is meant by “measure” in Rev. 11.1 (cf. Num. 35.2,5; Ez. 45.1-3; 42.15,20; 48.8,12,15)? Measure means protection or a setting apart for God. How can those in an earthly temple be protected when the outer court is overrun and the Antichrist is reigning from the temple? Obviously that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 AD who can say the Temple was measured while the court outside the Temple was not? "Do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months" (v.2). Yet not trample over the Temple in 70 AD? Clearly, therefore, Rev. 11.1 in the future is referring to the saints in Heaven and v.2 is referring to the EU over-running the nation of Israel but leaving the Temple intact.

Manasseh_ said:

translated that means you're happy to see that I didn't post a number of scriptures again that you're unable to respond to as in past numbers of posts.................what a relief for you huh............you don't have to dodge any scriptures for now............

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